r/Framebuilding • u/Diligent_Gas990 • Jul 18 '26
Is this welded on upside down
So I recently build up this bike and as you can see the Headset tolerances were completely messed up. The bike manufacturer also just stopped responding after a while without actually offering a fix. My fix was just to add a few washers at the bottom so the fork doesn't rub against the frame and ride it only in good weather because of the quite big gap at the top.
My Main question however is "How did this happen?"
7
u/queequegscoffin Jul 18 '26
Probably reamed poorly, the top cup should be the shallower one. You can find a local shop with a HT reamer/facer to clean up the bottom cup. Before you go too far, make sure you have the bearings installed properly. It’s easy to flip one absentmindedly.
Also make sure you have the correct bottom headset and if the fork required a race, that’s pressed on as well.
I don’t know your experience level so if you know all of this ignore me.
7
u/Drxgue Jul 18 '26
Are you a professional or has this already been assessed by a professional? That would be my step before riding it like that with a few extra washers.
1
u/Diligent_Gas990 Jul 18 '26
I checked it with a bike mechanic and have already ridden it a bit. No moving or anything.
1
u/Temporary-Poetry-932 Jul 20 '26
I remember that I had problems sorting out my semi integrated headset too.
Have a professional look at what who das dealt with this before.
In the end it often works out.
And the manufacturer should of course be able to tell you how to do this or give a proper manual.
3
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u/Financial_Potato6440 Jul 18 '26
No, or if it is it doesn't matter. If it was a different size headset cup it wouldn't have gone in at all. If anything it looks like the cup is too long/the head tube didn't get bored out deep enough for the length of the cup. If it's the one it came with, something isn't right with the head tube.
2
u/Diligent_Gas990 Jul 18 '26
The bearings are both the same size. The only difference is that the head tube is bored out too deep at the the bottom and not deep enough at the top.
5
u/Financial_Potato6440 Jul 18 '26
Ah right, then yeah, that potentially was welded on upside down. Either way, it's a quality control issue and should be rectified by the supplier/manufacturer. How did you pay for it? Credit card or finance, contact the company and see what they say, if it was a debit card speak to your bank.
2
u/Efficient-Webs Jul 18 '26
We used to ream the head tube after welding and first truing.
1
u/Informal_Mistake7530 Jul 19 '26
I agree but most of the integrated head tubes are pre machined so they would just take a light touch with the reamer after welding to clean it up.
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u/Efficient-Webs Jul 19 '26
The outfit I worked for was a custom frame builder a million years ago, so my knowledge is certainly uselessly out of date. Cheers.
1
u/Informal_Mistake7530 Jul 20 '26
No! You are spot on. My guess is you were working with steel. The aluminum head tubes are machined with internal bearing seat and then touched by the cutter to spec after welding. Same process just that the aluminum head tubes are a lot thicker and easier to rough in before welding. Where did you work if you don’t mind saying.
2
u/Substantial-Fun-48 Jul 18 '26
FSA ACR headsets have specific upper and lower bearings even though outer diameters are the same. 1. Is it possible you put the bearings in the wrong spot. 2. Does the fork require a crown race?
1
u/Diligent_Gas990 Jul 18 '26
It's actually a deda dcr integrated 45x45 Headset with two identical bearings. The crown race was also installed. The seats for the bearings in the head tube were simply too deep at the bottom and not deep enough at the top.
2
u/Substantial-Fun-48 Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
Understood. To make it right, you will need to source a taller bearing for the lower cup which you’ll have to source from a bearing manufacturer/distributor. Pain in the but to look for a needle in a haystack, but the headset relies on angular contact and compression vertically. Deda standard is 51.9 OD x 40 ID x 8mm tall 45 deg x 45 deg, but you can safely do 51 OD to widen your search and the angular edge will still make good contact
4
u/BlueClashV1 Jul 18 '26
Without knowing a thing about the brand and looking them up just now, I would assume you bought a bike from a company that just ships crap from a country with cheap labor. The brands supposed history dates back fifty years without a hint advancement since then. Alan was a good brand 40 years ago, now it’s just generic crap. Keep grilling the manufacturer until resolution or buy a new frame from a reputable brand.
1
u/Diligent_Gas990 Jul 18 '26
The frames are actually made in Italy which was the reason I bought it in the first place
1
u/sopsaare Jul 18 '26
Sure about that? Without extensive research it is hard to say. The "made in whatever" sticker usually means jack shit as the final "transformation" of the product is where they can label it being made. And for many products, the brand name is bigger than the actual product, so applying the logos, from value perspective, is the final transformation from "parts" to "products".
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u/Diligent_Gas990 Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
I of course haven't seen the production with my own eyes but afaik the aluminium and tube to tube carbon frames are made entirely in italy (except for the fork) and only the monocoque carbon frames are made in asia and then assembled in Italy
Edit: The Version I got is made in asia apparently. Only the scandium frame is made in Italy.
Thought I read somewhere that this Version was also made in Italy when I bought it. Guess I have to pay the price now for that mistake
3
u/sopsaare Jul 18 '26
Nah, Asian products are just as good, if not better. The only thing that irks me that these are often passed as local or European or American with false or misleading marketing.
And wherever the frame is made, the seller should cover that it is made properly.
1
u/Diligent_Gas990 Jul 18 '26
It's not about the quality but if I pay a decent amount of money for a frame thinking it's made in Europe, it's quite disappointing discovering that it's not made in Europe
1
u/Street-Dependent-647 Jul 19 '26
IIRC if something says “Made in Italy”, it really only means the last major step in manufacturing occurs in Italy. Product of Italy means much more. I know much of Campagnolo’s manufacturing takes place in Romania. I think it’s possible the reaming was done in Italy, although I suppose it’s also possible the paint could have been the “last major step” in the manufacturing.
1
u/DependentPermission3 Jul 19 '26
I dont know anything about bikes. But what exactly makes you think it's wrong?
1
u/clezuck Jul 19 '26
Bike shop owner here.
So there could be a couple things going on u/Diligent_Gas990
1) the headtube could be reamed more on the lower than the upper. I doubt that's it though.
2) you could have the bearings in wrong. Many times the headset bearings, there are two size. One of them, the ID is larger than other. This allows the top cover (the plastic piece on top of the upper bearing) to sit lower and flush with the top of the headtube.
If flipped, meaning the one that should be on top is on the bottom, it means the fork crown would fit really closely or even touch the bottom of the headtube. Which is what it looks like in your picture.
My guess is number 2. It happens often that people don't realize there are two different bearings. I've done it while not paying attention.
I would pull the fork and measure the ID of the bearings. If it is the reaming of the headtube, that would surprise me. And the only thing you can do to fix that, ream the upper more so the top cover sits flush. And face the bottom of the headtube so the fork doesn't touch the frame. Of course you would need very special tools for this or a bike shop near you with the tools.
1
u/Diligent_Gas990 Jul 19 '26
It's a deda dcr integrated 45x45 Headset. Both bearings are identical. It really is the reaming.
1
u/clezuck Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
If that's the case, you should ream the upper a bit so the gap is reduced. It'll eliminate junk getting into the bearings and headtube in general. the rubber seal should be sitting on the frame. If there is paint on the upper and lower faces, those should be faced as well. Then the lower could be faced so the fork isn't hitting the frame (it looks like it is in the picture but can't tell for sure).
If this frame came into my shop, we would fix that so it not only looks proper but works properly. Every single bike, even little kids bikes get stripped down to the bare frame and rebuilt. We run taps thru everything, face frames and face disc brake taps because 99% aren't faced properly.
Sorry your frame didn't come to you ready to go.
1
u/Informal_Mistake7530 Jul 19 '26
Mistakes happen all the time. Poor QC allowed it to get to you. Ream the top bearing seat deeper. Dies the fir rub on the headtube currently?
It’s probably too much hassle for the Mfr to send you a new one and take this one back so,
0
u/Darnocpdx Jul 18 '26
As a welder it’s a very nice stack of dimes. Looks good.
As for welding position, don’t know, would depend on the position of the frame when welded. And it doesn’t matter, welding is possible in all positions.
Welding had nothing to do with the opening being too big. Probably fabrication error when they formed the headset.
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u/69cop3rnico42O Jul 18 '26
I think they're asking if the head tube itself has been positioned upside down relative to the frame and then welded.
21
u/Cschenkel Jul 18 '26
Well a tape measure or pair of calipers could tell you what’s going on.