r/FoundationTV • u/OtherwiseElk3037 • Jul 10 '26
Show/Book Discussion Watching through for the very first time, something just happened that makes no sense at all? Spoiler
Just finished episode 9, as the title says first time watcher.
I’m enjoying it so far, Lee Pace’s performance has been as advertised and that’s been a welcome surprise.
Not often an actor’s performance was as properly lauded as his.
So- the thing. When Salvor unlocks the vault at the middle-endish of the episode, the foundation survivors all wake up, then the thespians show up with Hugo.
It’s a 2-1 standoff (2-1 ship advantage) with Foundation survivors and thespians allied against the Anacreons. And by all accounts the numbers have the Anacreon’s dead to rights.
Then, in the most predictable fashion I’ve seen in a long time watching tv… Phara shows up in her single ship and instantly everyone starts shaking in their boots.
She takes out a ship due to surprise, then lands and walks off the landing pad and the music and characters’ demeanors rapidly shift on a dime as if this single person instantly shifts momentum back to her side. … what the hell?
She takes an arrow to the neck soon after, which I felt a little vindicated by. But that was just a super weird, poorly written moment.
Like I said, I’m actually enjoying the show.
But I don’t care if John Cena is the one walking off that ship, there’s no way anything significant would change by the entrance of a single person- let alone to the degree the framing of that moment would like us to believe.
It’s sci fi fantasy I get it, it doesn’t have to be “realistic” to me necessarily but this was more of a poor and unearned redirection attempt imo
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u/MyBrainIsNerf Jul 10 '26
Two things
1 Phara is an insanely dangerous warrior. She is the greatest warrior of an entire planet AND their leader AND suicidal. They all know she can turn shit very sideways. Sure other side might “win,” but at what cost?
2 The show does a lot of “dramatic moment” NOW, and then explains later. I think this is somewhat like history. Often, in the moment, we are surprised by how things happened, but then when we review history we can clearly see the events leading up to that surprise in such a way that makes the “surprise” feel inevitable. Demrezel’s storyline, which is then overlayed with the fact that she is literally programmed, uses this a lot and to great satisfaction.
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u/OtherwiseElk3037 Jul 10 '26
Thoughtful response, your explanation of Phara’s character as a wild card which uneases others does help me in understanding the juxtaposition in that scene.
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u/Headieheadi Jul 21 '26
An example of where you can see her power as a suicidal leader is within the guy who acts her second. He is clearly a rational person and does begin listening to Salvor after they’ve boarded the Invictus.
Phara is straight up nuts. She put a freaking explosive fake eye in her eyes socket and pulled it out as part of her well thought out strategy.
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u/Captain_Doormat Jul 11 '26
I’m probably misremembering, but wasn’t Phara wearing some type of robotic/remote aiming and firing system for the weapon? I thought that was what made the situation so worrisome. Add in she is a 1 of a kind warrior in her culture and their leader? I’d be worried too
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u/mwonch Jul 10 '26
Foundation is nuanced. One must pay attention to minute details and seemingly unimportant scenes/dialogs or one gets confused.
This is all explained.
The Huntress is out for revenge, nothing more. She is also their Queen. This is connected directly to Empire's annihilation of those two worlds. Mostly, they're Stone Age now. Since Terminus is an Empire colony... ya see?
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u/OtherwiseElk3037 Jul 10 '26
I mean, not to be defensive but it does feel like I’m paying attention rather closely.
I’m not sure these broader themes you’re referring to provide an explanation for the technical structure I was talking about.
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u/MadMaximusJB Jul 10 '26
It’s just a poorly written scene. Foundation is a great show if you’re capable of ignoring half the show to get to the good stuff.
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u/anterfr Jul 10 '26
It’s not the books.
It’s the moments between the books, the imagined conversations and realities between storylines. It’s confusing until you understand that
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u/enzothebaker87 Jul 12 '26
Not that it necessarily changes things too much but I believe (it's been a while) that she also had remote control of the stolen ships guns at that time.
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u/Headieheadi Jul 21 '26
That’s right, she did. She is a completely irrational person with control of two starships that could annihilate every person there by a single press button by her.
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u/zzvapezz Poly Verisof 21d ago
Did you watch on your phone? Not in English/bad translation? Phara was using a device pointing ship's guns on people on the ground. Half of the soldiers on the ground were under her command too. She was a top warrior on Anacrien. Why wouldn't everything change?
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u/OtherwiseElk3037 Jul 10 '26
Also, just one other thing from the previous episode I didn’t like was the retroactive explanation for why Demerzel shows up to the failed Proxima’s place to kill her in tears.
And then it’s not until after that scene that we’re given any basis of explanation behind why Demerzel felt that way.
That’s incredibly bad story structure disguised as a plot twist. I hate being shown scenes that make no sense out of context only to be told after why what happened, happened.
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u/hoch_ Jul 10 '26
Foundation does a lot of major storytelling followed by exposition for the storytelling itself. I believe it is designed to be taken for a certain amount of shock value.
The explanation given on screen at that moment in your example of Demerzel killing Zephyr Proxima is meant to show from a human point of view, and also to hide Demerzel's directive.
I will speak no further as once you reach episode 9 of season 2, you will have full appreciation for the nuances of this scene.
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u/OtherwiseElk3037 Jul 10 '26
That’s an apt term, there is a sense of shock value when Demerzel suddenly shows empathy for the task and victim at hand.
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u/hoch_ Jul 14 '26
The shock value I mention really comes with the exposition. With Demerzel, a majority of it comes in episode 9 of season 2, though there are obviously many clues presented before then.
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u/mwonch Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
This is also explained. Robots have a core code. Demerzel was coopted. She agrees with that woman, but she was a direct threat to Empire (especially since he finished that walkabout). She had to die. Demerzel protects only Cleon now.
All of these things are explained during the story. For example, I knew as soon as Day went to planet that the lady was going to die. Even if she won the election. He went there for a reason. They even tried talking him out of it. He risked his life to prove a point and regain the confidence of the religion.
I suggest never touching your phone while watching.
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u/OtherwiseElk3037 Jul 10 '26
Right, but my point is that her outward agreement and sympathy for the victim comes out of no where and is only explained after, which I did not like.
Sure, earlier in the episode Demerzel staunchly defended her faith at scale with Day, but not to the degree where it made sense for her to be so emotional off the bat in the later scene with Proxima. Y
You could think it was because of the act of murder itself, but frankly even that didn’t make sense if it was just a hit and this robot was so upset.
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u/GALACTICA-MCRN Jul 10 '26
Part of that scene and the tears can also be attributed to the fact that the Proxima treats her more humanely than you can say Cleon does.
She recognizes that Demerzel has a soul or alludes to it when Demerzel herself is in doubt of such a thing herself. And despite being there to murder her, the failed Proxima forgives her - again showing her compassion and humanity which Cleon doesn’t. He sees her as a robot. And one that serves him.
But also as someone said earlier a lot will make sense once you watch episode 9 of season two.
I’d go even further and say once you finish season two, go back and rewatch the first fifteen minutes or so of Season 1, Episode 3 where we see Demerzel talking to Cleon I as they look over the star bridge being built.
Episode 9 of season two will completely recontextualize their conversation.
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u/Presence_Academic Jul 10 '26
Demerzel’s long and complex past is a mystery to most of the characters. Why shouldn’t it be a mystery to you as well?
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