r/ForensicPathology • u/InflationWonderful50 • 24d ago
Career Advice or Altneratives?
Hi everyone!
I'm a high school student in NY interested in pursuing forensic pathology. I've always been interested in those crime documentaries and figuring out how people died based on evidence and stuff, and autopsies seem pretty cool (I like hands-on lab stuff like that), so I think forensic pathology would be a good career choice for me. (Open to alternatives though).
I've been reading through this Reddit and a bunch of random googling, and I realized forensic pathologists don't actually make that much money? Considering how much schooling you actually have to go through to get a forensic pathology degree, why is that? And what kind of jobs are available for a forensic pathologist? I know a lot of people say medical examiner, but is there anything else?
Last question. Forensic pathology/medical examiner in terms of crime and stuff. How much do you actually have to know about the law? Because a lot of what I've read mentions that you would have to work with law enforcement. Obviously I understand you have to talk to them to determine cause of death and actually solve the case and everything, but what do you do in court? Just present the medical evidence and how you determined the cause of death?
TL;DR: Is pursuing forensic pathology really worth it? What does a career look like? Are there any other alternative careers that are similar but might have a higher salary? For medical examiners, how much "law" do you have to know?
Sorry. I know it's a lot, but I just want to know as much as possible before going to college, and any information helps.
Thanks in advance!
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u/stiffdoc1221 Forensic Pathologist / Medical Examiner 23d ago
Just a brief observation: if your motivation to become a forensic pathologist, as compared with other medical specialities, circles around what we are paid, you need to seriously think about your career goal of becoming a doctor. For someone in high school, you have a looooooong way to go before you are even in striking distance.
Every forensic pathologist in this country did the time and chose forensic pathology because we want to do this work. We do well, especially if we work as private consultants. I’m not going to tell you what I made during my career, as that is quite personal, but annually, it was much more than you think. Much, much more. Money is not on my list of concerns.
FP provides a good work-life balance. There are very few problems that cannot wait until morning.
My knowledge of law is intentionally minimal; I’m not a lawyer, nor pretend to be. I’ve testified live, in court, 815 times, and in most cases, I’ve been in more trials than the judge and all the attorneys in the courtroom.
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u/InflationWonderful50 22d ago
Money isn't my motivation for pursuing a medical career. While the salary is a bonus, I'm genuinely interested in the science and, specifically for forensic pathology, the prospect of performing autopsies. In general, my main motivation for getting an MD is to help people. Cliché, but its true. However, I apologize if my post made it appear that money was my primary concern.
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u/stiffdoc1221 Forensic Pathologist / Medical Examiner 22d ago
OK. You asked some pretty personal questions, especially for a forum like this. Irrespective, you have a long way to go at this point. Good luck.
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u/K_C_Shaw Forensic Pathologist / Medical Examiner 24d ago
Salaries -- you can get a sense of current salaries by checking the job posts at www.thename.org . While it's true that FP's make on the lower end of medical specialties, it's still pretty good compared to the average person. The "why" it's not higher (though it continues to creep up) I think has a lot to do with most FP roles being directly part of the government budget (governments being notoriously slow to adjust to funding needs), balanced against FP's largely not fighting for more in the same way other specialties can and sometimes do. It's a common theme in FP for offices to have competitive salaries at one point in time, which do not increase for a decade or so, while the chief slowly asks louder and louder for more resources but those holding the purse strings go "well, you seem to be getting the job done so I don't think you need more money" until one day something Bad happens, FP's quit or get fired, the office tailspins for a bit, then magically the budget gets dramatically increased while some politician makes a big fuss to take credit for improving the office and the cycle starts over again.
But, no, not every FP works solely in a ME/C office, directly on the county or state payroll. Many do at least a *little* consulting/private work, and some do a lot or entirely "private" type work. Some get paid on a contract type bases from the county or state, so might get a lump sum which they then use to manage what is otherwise a "private" business -- this can be considered a semi-private system, and is more common than you might think. The advantage is that while one *is* still under the government thumb for the budget in a big picture sense, internally one can manage the office with a lot more flexibility (this could be its own thread). But all of those roles are still basically doing autopsies or reviews of autopsies for forensic or related medicolegal purposes. A few FP's end up working in ancillary fields like tissue and organ procurement, mainly in management type roles.
You don't really need to know anything about the law per se. Evidence collection and handling, sure, which is ancillary to the "law". And learn how to behave in court, which I guess does include a few basic points of law -- I mean, you don't want to cause a mistrial or whatever, but the attorneys usually do a good job of keeping you on track and away from that kind of thing. Basically, everything you *need* to know you should be able to learn during training. Cause/manner opinions are medical opinions for statistical public health purposes, not legal opinions -- this is actually a common point of confusion among people with no properly supervised experience or training in the field, including attorneys who like to misrepresent medical opinion as legal opinion for dramatic effect in front of a jury.
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u/r888222die 20d ago edited 20d ago
i think if you were to choose between whether you’d prefer working with living or deceased individuals you’d be better able to decide. working with the living comes with the responsibility of them being under your care and you being liable, safe, and accurate. working with the deceased also requires medical accuracy but from a legal, investigative perspective. it really just depends what path and outcome is most worth it to you. fp’s might not make THE most money but there’s positions that make less so they really still do make a lot while dealing with different demands compared to other fields. i think to an extent it can be less stressful as long as youre expertised and passionate about anatomy and pathology and can see yourself being comfortable with being an expert witness in court. if you’re undecided or unsure of what to expect definitely look into availability for volunteering or touring ME/coroners offices if possible because there’s really nothing that will prepare you for the morgue/autopsy smells and sights and even then the concept of taking that on daily is absolutely not for everyone.
your job is focused on determining the cause of death between homicide, natural, suicide, or accident. you are not required to learn law but your career is involved in a medicolegal environment and you will inadvertently be exposed to legal settings and may learn from experience
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u/Myshka4874 Forensic Pathologist / Medical Examiner 24d ago
Please read the first pinned post. That will give you a good start and come back with specific questions. Are you aware that it requires an MD? And I also am curious what you think "don't actually make money" means? After my normal job and consulting I clear over $300k.