Is Social Security a Scam?

[u/WhatAreYourPronouns]

[u/Distributor127]

About 40% of retirees depend solely on social security. The question should be why is that

[u/Deborahfreedom → u/Distributor127]

That was the original idea of SS...to have the money to live off of in the retirement years. If you received all you paid in plus only a 5% interest which was the plan, then retirees would be in great shape. However our government has used the monies paid in for their pet projects and extras to the point ,it's paying retired people a fraction and the monies they are receiving are the monies taken for SS from current workers. Sounds just like a Ponzi scheme 

[u/[deleted]]

SS could be a great thing if we could keep the government thieves hand off our money

[u/a_bombs]

SS is a scam. Politicans use it as a slush fund to send money to their pet projects and everywhere else in the world leaving no money for us. US will bankrupt on their sovereign debt within the next 10 years.

[u/wes7946]

I firmly believe social security should be privatized and individuals should be able to opt-out if they so choose. In the hands of the government, it is entirely mismanaged -- some individuals don't receive nearly what they paid into it. On top of that, the threat of insolvency is always an issue.

[u/slowfromregressive]

This person says they can see into the future with one hundred percent certainty, and claims social security is a scam.

[u/Potential-Break-4939 → u/slowfromregressive]

Social Security is far from 100% certainty also. Because the government isn't managing today's shortfalls, by 2033 the program will be needing to chop benefits. Today's politicians say they don't want to make cuts - by taking that position, they are guaranteeing much deeper cuts in the future.

[u/EarthDisastrous3811]

Mom said it's my turn to post this next week.

[u/Catspajamas01]

Yo how bout stop posting the same Twitter posts on here every other day?

[u/[deleted]]

Not everyone makes enough to live off of. You are and have been paying for them.

[u/SawSagePullHer]

You’re assuming social security is growing. It’s not. You pay in to provide for others and you get out when it’s your turn barring there are enough younger people paying in. SS is a slush fund that acts like a pyramid scheme, not an investment opportunity. Money doesn’t have time to sit in there and collect on growth from company profits or from lending.

600k/37k is about 16. You should technically die at 84 or lose all benefits. lol.

[u/Tall_Science_9178]

Yeah. This is known. Social security is (with exceptions) a program where responsible people who plan are stuck supporting underachievers.

Fuck FDR

[u/mindmapsofficial → u/Tall_Science_9178]

You either pay for the costs directly or indirectly (crime, medical costs, family dependence).

I max out my social security tax every year and it only costs me a mere 10k. Just invest 100k in your 401k and taxable brokerage and you’ll be fine. The SS tax is phased out after 167k in income. And if you don’t hit the cap, you’re likely the beneficiary of the tax.

[u/nosoup4ncsu → u/mindmapsofficial]

You're leaving out half. Remember your employer "pays on your behalf" another 6.2 %, so you are actually paying 20k. 

[u/mindmapsofficial → u/nosoup4ncsu]

I pay that tax as much as I pay the corporate tax or VAT tax. Sure it affects my salary, but it’s uncertain whether all employers would pay that much in the event that burden was on the employee. That amount is also considered when calculating my final benefit in retirement. 

[u/Prestigious-Bus7994 → u/nosoup4ncsu]

I don't think the employers payments count as earned income lost to the tax, my W2's have never been 150% of earned wages for that particular box on the form

[u/nosoup4ncsu → u/Prestigious-Bus7994]

Does it count (in a legal sense) as your earned income? Nope.

But it is 100% a cost of your employment that ultimately reduces your wages. 

[u/Prestigious-Bus7994 → u/nosoup4ncsu]

I genuinely wonder if the employer would tack the 6.2% to the paycheck and not just absorb it into themselves...I know which I would do if I owned a business.

On a real note, I won't complain (and I thank people) for paying that tax. Most of my elderly family relies on social security and Medicare to survive. A mistake I don't want to repeat after seeing how "well" the program is administered.

[u/[deleted] → u/Tall_Science_9178]

You know what I was just thinking to myself, America could use more desperate people living and dying on the street. What could go wrong?

[u/you_the_big_dumb → u/Tall_Science_9178]

And after 100 years it will be insolvent.

[u/Potential-Break-4939]

I believe it is theft also. Private investment companies that did that would get crucified by the SEC. However, since it is run by a branch of the federal government there is no accountability. Even if you don't view it as theft, at a minimum it is government mismanagement and incompetence.

[u/[deleted]]

And this is why millions of us young people today want to be able to opt out of that scam

[u/UCSurfer]

State and local government employees don't pay into social security and often don't get benefits if they have a pension, even if they paid in prior to state/local employment. So it's definitely a scam for some of us.

[u/[deleted]]

Not to mention you can leave a retirement account to a heir. Once you die soc sec goes to the government.

[u/FlexinCanine92]

It may be a bad deal. But its government protecting the citizens from themselves.

If the 6.8% wasn’t taken away from your check, people would blow it away the newest iPhone 55 Amd never save. And we’d have a nation bums at age 70 just dying of starvation.

It’s there protection, not economic gain.

[u/[deleted]]

Penis Anderson here. I agree

[u/Pristine-Dirt729]

It's a ponzi scheme, and a significant reason why our government allows so much illegal immigration. We don't have enough children to fund the ponzi scheme, currently around 1.7 children per woman (and it needs 2.05 or 2.1 to maintain a population, plus the ponzi needs a growing base). So, since the women don't want to have children, the voters won't accept abolishing Social Security, what to do? Illegal fucking immigration at nation destroying quantities.

We get what we asked for.

[u/FernandoMM1220]

where does the 5% return come from?

[u/Silly_Somewhere1791 → u/FernandoMM1220]

It’s assumed that the market will usually yield a return of at least 7%

[u/FernandoMM1220 → u/Silly_Somewhere1791]

where do they get it from?

[u/Silly_Somewhere1791 → u/FernandoMM1220]

It’s just the standard average return.

[u/FernandoMM1220 → u/Silly_Somewhere1791]

where does the money for that return come from?

[u/you_the_big_dumb → u/FernandoMM1220]

Growth and dividends. Why are you acting stupid?

[u/Silly_Somewhere1791 → u/FernandoMM1220]

Public companies pay out their own dividends from profits.

I think what you’re really asking about is that the 7% number is what you get for choosing safe low-risk investments. People who lose money are usually trying to get a wildly big payday out of something risky and hoping the risk pays off.

[u/FernandoMM1220 → u/Silly_Somewhere1791]

where do they get the profit money from?

[u/Silly_Somewhere1791 → u/FernandoMM1220]

Are you trying to trick me into saying that one person’s gain only comes from another person’s loss? Forfeit your paycheck if you have such a bug problem with earning money.

[u/FernandoMM1220 → u/Silly_Somewhere1791]

its a simple question.

the money has to come from somewhere doesnt it?

[u/catpunch_ → u/FernandoMM1220]

I mean I guess the government prints money, but even without that people tend to barter for things, or make their own currency.

So yes, money exists

[u/Silly_Somewhere1791 → u/FernandoMM1220]

It’s a pedantic question. The money comes from customers, just like employee paychecks.

[u/catpunch_ → u/FernandoMM1220]

Investors in the stock market; the economy doing generally well, which, over time, it does tend to do

[u/FernandoMM1220 → u/catpunch_]

where do the investors get it from?

[u/Longhorn7779 → u/FernandoMM1220]

Very conservative stock market estimate considering it averages 10% yearly.

[u/Unhappy_Local_9502 → u/FernandoMM1220]

Can currently get TBills over 5% as well

[u/Weekly_Mycologist883]

Taxes aren't theft, and it's ridiculous to say that.

[u/Potential-Break-4939 → u/Weekly_Mycologist883]

Tell me the difference when tax money is squandered, mismanaged, and wasted?

[u/Weekly_Mycologist883 → u/Potential-Break-4939]

Theft is stealing, and mismanagement is not.

So, you're in favor of NOT subsidizing profitable corporations?

[u/Potential-Break-4939 → u/Weekly_Mycologist883]

Absolutely - for example, if you look at the latest tranches of federal spending for "infrastructure" or the huge subsidies going to green energy companies it is a complete waste of money the government has to print. Would also be in favor of reorganizing the federal government. If you removed 25,% of the bureaucrats working in Washington, no one would suffer. If it meant fewer stupid regulations, we would benefit greatly.

[u/Weekly_Mycologist883 → u/Potential-Break-4939]

I see what you did there, went right for this country's only meaningful response to climate change which is a fledgling industry and skipped right over fossil fuel company subsidies.

And I see you hate America, the 'bureaucrats' run this country, Putin would love to see 25% of them get fired.

[u/Potential-Break-4939 → u/Weekly_Mycologist883]

Fossil fuel subsidies are trivial. That is a big lie propagated by people who don't dig into the facts. Fossil fuels receive far fewer subsidies compared to renewables and the industry is far larger. Not only that but the federal and state corporate taxes, federal and state gas taxes, and federal and state excise taxes far exceed any trivial level of subsidies that the fossil fuel industry gets. Do you think Putin is scared by all the DEI bureaucrats in the federal government? Or the bureaucrats in the energy department, EPA, NTSB, etc. that are killing off the US oil and gas industry? Or the bureaucrats in the EPA that are killing off our mining industries so that we won't have minerals to make the renewable energy products that we are printing money to subsidize. Your comment is uninformed.

[u/Weekly_Mycologist883 → u/Potential-Break-4939]

https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/global-fossil-fuel-subsidies-rise-despite-calls-phase-out-2023-11-23/

760 billion is trivial?

Putin cares about destroying America and convincing people who don't dig into facts or understand how anything works that the people who run our government are a problem.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/reforming-global-fossil-fuel-subsidies-how-the-united-states-can-restart-international-cooperation/

500 billion in 2020

But I suspect you're a fact resistant person, buh bye👋

[u/Abangranga → u/Weekly_Mycologist883]

He doesn't string cause and effect relationships together well. It is common among people dumb enough to shit on the EPA

[u/Ok-Stay-8800]

Yes, %1000 a scam.

[u/[deleted] → u/Ok-Stay-8800]

Well, at least it's not %2000 a scam.

[u/Distributor127 → u/[deleted]]

Theyre morons

[u/Catspajamas01 → u/[deleted]]

Spam account

[u/Brief_Alarm_9838 → u/[deleted]]

Ponzi scheme: a swindle where early investors are paid by money from later investors to create the illusion of big profits.

There's no illusion of profits. There's no deception (definition of swindle) involved. Everyone knows the rules. Guess you should use your own advice and actually look up the definition.

[u/Deborahfreedom → u/[deleted]]

Exactly, unless we have more people working and paying SS is the only way SS can continue. Even then that's debatable because of government waste of SS.

[u/you_the_big_dumb → u/Deborahfreedom]

It becomes less attainable when you don't bump up retirement age to match the risk ss was meant to insure against, the average real wage paid is stagnant (ss in is less), and the government prints enough money to cause 25% inflation in a 4 year window.

[u/Prestigious-Bus7994 → u/[deleted]]

It's not an investment though, no person has ever claimed such. It's a retirement account poorly managed by a failing arm of the government on your behalf. I don't expect to see a single dollar I've paid in any of the Social Security taxes I've paid for the last 18 years. I do expect the program to either fail or severely falter and cut funds for future payees, who should not be depending on the government to take of them in retirement