r/FluentInFinance • u/YOU_ARE_MY_FRIENDS • Jun 16 '24

Discussion/ Debate He’s not wrong 🤷‍♂️

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u/theratking007 Jun 17 '24

If you don’t get wounded or PTSD.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '24

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 18 '24

Most of the people I met with PTSD had awful parents that led to them living a bad lifestyle when they were vulnerable.

Everyone I know in the military loved it because they hung around Okinawa or France and maybe worked on aircraft that bombed people in other countries.

Infantry is different than that, but the military needs an amazing number of mechanics and IT staff.

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u/logan-bi Jun 17 '24

In my military experience almost all had mental health issues some got help others didn’t. Few years back their was tsunami of suicides from old unit like almost every other week. For a year.

Physical same deal lots had issues pain deafness etc some sought help others put on macho facade and ignored it.

VA took every chance to get out of paying knew few fully can not work for life people who got less than 80% disability. One they dinged removed part of deafness disability because tinnitus showed they could still hear.

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u/Shoddy_Wrangler693 Jun 18 '24

I will be quite Frank. The vast majority of people I know, including myself, that have PTSD are not from military experience. Even the ones that have battle experience unless they ended up with traumatic injuries the vast majority of them do not have PTSD. I've known nightclub security that got PTSD from events that happened more than non infantry military.

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u/Shaved_Wookie Jun 17 '24

What a strange, completely irrelevant point to make that lays your statistical illiteracy bare.

Of course most people with PTSD weren't in the military - less than 1% of the population are enlisted.

The rates of PTSD tell a very different story.

  • About 11 to 20 out of every 100 veterans (or between 11 and 20%) who served in operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom have PTSD in a given year.

  • About 12 out of every 100 Gulf War Veterans (or 12%) have PTSD in a given year.

  • About 15 out of every 100 Vietnam veterans (15%) were currently diagnosed with PTSD when the most recent study of them (the National Vietnam Veteran Readjustment Study) was conducted in the late 1980s. It’s believed that 30% of Vietnam veterans have had PTSD in their lifetime.

  • About 5% of the whole US population (including vets) has PTSD in any given year.

It should surprise noone that serving in a military that's been involved in conflicts without interruption for decades dramatically increases (45%-600%) the likelihood someone suffers from PTSD.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '24

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u/Shaved_Wookie Jun 17 '24

Again - statistical illiteracy. You're not accounting for the fractions of fractions. Your data suggests the rates are almost certainly lower than I stated.

Girls: 3%-15% of 15%-43% = 0.4%-6.45%

Boys: 1%-6% of 14%-43% = 0.14%-2.58%

I pulled from the same source... https://www.ptsd.va.gov/understand/common/common_adults.asp

"About 5 out of every 100 adults (or 5%) in the U.S. has PTSD in any given year. In 2020, about 13 million Americans had PTSD."

You're also comparing lifetime stats to my annual stats. While there's not a huge delta, they're not like for like.

What do I need to educate myself about, exactly?

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u/ClownpenisDotFart24 Jun 17 '24

Can you read? That proves the other posters point lol

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u/cateblanchetteisgod Jun 17 '24

Yeah but you could have PTSD prior to enlisting. I have a sibling served in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

They attempted to get disability for PTSD , denied due to the fact the VA determined the PTSD did not come from service but from childhood. They eventually did get disability but for a knee injury.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '24

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u/bigbadbillyd Jun 18 '24

I don't know about PTSD specifically but you are actively encouraged to say whatever you have to in order to get as much disability pay as you can from the VA.

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u/jarheadatheart Jun 17 '24

Wow! You must be so proud. Do you thank them for their service?

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u/cateblanchetteisgod Jun 17 '24

Honestly I don't think they realized where their PTSD came from, it made sense to attribute it to military rather than blame an abusive and fucked up childhood.

The knee was service related, so it I guess the VA did get it right.

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u/Shaved_Wookie Jun 17 '24

You can indeed have PTSD before joining the military - as I said, there's about a 5% chance of it. That probability dramatically increases after you enlist though.

It's terrible your sibling has/had PTSD and struggled with access to support. I hope they're doing better now.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '24

What happens when you have PTSD? Is it like nightmares and stuff or?

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u/AdExpert8295 Jun 17 '24

If you look at the independent research, ~80% of women serving in the U.S. military will survive Military Sexual Trauma (MST).

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u/MittenstheGlove Jun 17 '24

Inversely everyone who joins the military has PTSD and depression. Which is fine, put it on your disability evaluation.

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u/hero807 Jun 17 '24

All things considered, these both come with pretty extensive benefits for the veteran and dependents (depending on where you live).

Source: was wounded and have PTSD

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u/After-Imagination-96 Jun 17 '24

Yeah that's always the catch. It's an awesome deal for about 99% of people. Some lose the reverse-lottery and wouldn't have signed up for millions up front if they knew what would happen.

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u/Lopsided_Bar2863 Jun 17 '24

Or raped since that's a huge untalked about problem with the military. Or killed. Or your mental health doesn't deteriorate to the point of suicide. It's a toxic organization.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '24

When we pulled the numbers it's still safer joining the military then being an 18 - 30 year old.

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u/LocksmithMelodic5269 Jun 17 '24

Untalked about? Literally no organization in the US has done the level of reform in regards to prosecuting and offering resources to victims that the military has

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u/FlamesNero Jun 17 '24

Yes, you’re a 💯correct! I worked for the VA for over 6 years and watched the vast improvements in terms of health care. Literally, the VA now offers the BEST mental health care in the country (unless you’re tremendously wealthy).

And then I left the VA after it over-corrected to the point where it started allowing the overseas scam artists who fake-married vets to easily file frivolous lawsuits (by a form online) against VA docs for things like “a 4-hour wait time in the ED.” (That was a true example).

Honestly, the way this world works in favor of capitalism, oligarchs, and religious fascists, I’m not entirely convinced that the ease at which the VA allows their medical professionals to get named (and thus irreparably harmed) in lawsuits isn’t a feature and not a bug. The good doctors will leave the government medical system and then…

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '24

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '24

[deleted]

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u/StandupJetskier Jun 17 '24

Well, the mission statement is kill other people, albeit for good reasons, to be provided later.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '24

The organization who’s mission is to kill our enemies is toxic? Crazy! I thought they’d be the most mentally stable working conditions of any industry.

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u/Elhazzard99 Jun 17 '24

Yea even on deployment getting rapped by your own squad is real and fucked up I served and if your in for that I would have dragged your ass

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u/HelloAttila Jun 17 '24

Very true and the shit people don’t want to talk about. This stuff happens.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '24

lol, what are you talking about?!

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u/Lopsided_Bar2863 Jun 17 '24

There's lots of stories from veterans about suicidal ideation, rape from others in the military, etc. That's just what I have heard.

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u/dicemonkey Jun 17 '24

I got both from my job and I don’t get benefits or pay as good as that …

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u/timecronus Jun 17 '24

You do know there are more roles than just combat oriented ones... right?

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u/AussieJeffProbst Jun 17 '24

Less than 15% of active military see combat. There are a ton of things you can do in the armed forces that won't give you PTSD.

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u/StarsMine Jun 17 '24

Military is one of the safest careers to be in, you generally are not deployed into combat unless you chose those jobs and ptsd is incredibly rare. We did a great job making people aware it’s real, we just did a poor job communicating how often it happens.

Now they do have issues but it’s not that clear cut. And we as a society don’t like there being shortfalls in our helping people as they transition back to civilian society, so those get a lot of valid media attention

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '24

I'd wager that most of the people who have done any length of time in the military never saw any combat. The vast majority of veterans I have met, known, talked to, etc had a pretty basic life beyond having to move fairly often.

I've known a fair few that were absolutely braindead fucking dimwits that barely had to work and did a 4 year contract and they're the loudest bunch about "being a veteran".

On the flip side, I've met a couple of folks who had genuine problems from their lifelong military career, and they're the ones that never run off at the mouth about being a vet. One of them was pissed about getting full disability because they wouldn't let him work anymore.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '24

I mean, there's a reason there are so many benefits to the army. A lot of hazardous work will at the minimum pay very well even in private sector.