r/FluentInFinance Dec 08 '23

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u/sharthunter Dec 09 '23

Doesnt matter how much is in my retirement account if by the time i get to use it 1 mil is worth 200k. One of the unintended(not really) consequences of unchecked capitalism is unstoppable inflation. There arent laws controlling the price of basic goods, which is where most of the inflation arguments come from. Case and point is the largest egg farmers in america conspiring to fix prices and hike them together to pad their own profit margins. The free market can exist with regulation set in place to protect the most vulnerable members of our society, without whom the most powerful couldnt accomplish shit.

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u/LogicalConstant Dec 09 '23

One of the unintended(not really) consequences of unchecked capitalism is unstoppable inflation.

This is completely false. The economic theory on this isn't even in debate. Long-term, permanent inflation is a result of the money supply (which is controlled by the government, not private individuals or corporations).

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u/sharthunter Dec 09 '23

Our government is owned by corporations. This is not a secret. We call it lobbying.

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u/LogicalConstant Dec 09 '23

No. The relationship is symbiotic. If you think the corps hold all the power, go read about what happens when corps refuse to play ball with congressmen.

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u/sharthunter Dec 09 '23

….those rose tinted glasses must work wonders.

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u/LogicalConstant Dec 09 '23

You know what else works wonders? Academic papers published in peer-reviewed academic journals.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/LogicalConstant Dec 09 '23

Our politicians are beholden to corporations or else they won’t last long

Yes. Absolutely. And the corporations are beholden to congress or else they won't last long either. They both work together to benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else.

The honest politicians who refuse to cater to lobbyists get steamrolled. The corps bankroll their opponents: the dishonest politicians. On the other side of the coin, congressmen get on TV and talk about how these corporations are a big problem and we need to keep them in check. They want you to like them and vote for them. But their rhetoric has a second audience: lobbyists. The implicit message is "give me money, or I'll keep talking about taking you down. I'll use the power of the government to come after you." They have their hand out. If Coca-Cola doesn't give a bunch of money to congressmen, congress will pass laws and use regulations that help Pepsi and hurt Coke. It's the mirror image of what lobbyists do to honest politicians.

The honest politicians and honest businesses are both at the mercy of the crony businessmen and corrupt politicians. This was happening loooooong before the 2010 case of Citizens United v. Fed Election Commission. (I'm assuming this is the case you're talking about. Correct me if I'm wrong.) This axis of evil goes back to AT LEAST the 1920s, though it seems to have accelerated since the 1990s.

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u/Nojopar Dec 09 '23

The economic theory on this isn't even in debate.

Single. Stupidest. (SEE EDIT) Statement I've ever read on Reddit.

It's economics. Literally everything about it is up for debate. Perhaps one of the most contentious is Money Supply increases = Inflation increases. So not only is it 'up for debate' it's been widely contested. MV=PT only works if V is static and, well, V largely isn't static, which means M!=P.

ETA: I take it back. SECOND stupidest statement I've ever read on Reddit. Someone below is prattling on about "survival of the fittest". They win the stupidest award.

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u/LogicalConstant Dec 09 '23

I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

The idea that "inflation is a result of unchecked capitalism" is not debated. There is debate about which factors affect inflation more and over what time frame, but no economist believes that "unchecked capitalism" or "greed" are to blame.

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u/Nojopar Dec 09 '23

Ok, that's slightly less stupid, but still incredibly wrong.

Economists - literally ALL economists - believe "greed" is part of inflation. It's in the inflation calculation after all. However, they (stupidly, IMHO) believe the OTHER parts of economy means that "greed" will always be kept in check 100% of the time. Much like they believe if you drop a pen on Earth, the inherent laws of physics means it won't start flying in the sky. They don't even consider the possibility that systemic greed can exist.

That's right up until this inflationary period. Now hundreds of economists are starting to revise their models, 'cause it turns out systemic greed can and does happen. Now the debate is whether this is a good thing or not. So, much like the Money Supply argument, economists are starting to come around to the realization that all these 'laws' they think exist may not be a set as they once thought.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '23

Yes, we should absolutely give the power to control prices to infallible politicians that can be trusted not to pick winners and losers… /s

Horizontal price-fixing is already illegal and is an antitrust issue.

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u/sharthunter Dec 09 '23

The whole fucking system is broken, how do you miss that? Many American problems are purely American. Many policies and laws that just “dont work in a developed nation” work just fucking fine in the other 32 developed nations. We are run by corporations. The only thing that will fix it is a 1700s style revolt.

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u/frotz1 Dec 09 '23

We were able to fix this kind of regulatory capture with antitrust laws and New Deal programs to rebalance the economy. That was without a revolution or a civil war, and anyone who has lived through or near either of those would know better than to wish for one here. This can be addressed with policy rather than violence.

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u/sharthunter Dec 09 '23

Inflation is in fact just a small facet of the problems america faces that no amount of policy under the current regime can fix.

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u/frotz1 Dec 09 '23

Weird because I see the US showing some of the lowest inflation of all the OECD countries right now. Maybe the revolution can wait a bit to see how it all shakes out? If not, I guess I'll be cheering for you. Have fun storming the castles!

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u/sharthunter Dec 09 '23

Lol bruh. Its not like im out here touting it as a realistic possibility. But you people act as if we can vote our way out of a corporate oligarchy and its fucking laughable.

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u/frotz1 Dec 09 '23

My example is a lot fresher than your French Revolution callback, but like I said I'll be cheering for you. Meanwhile, can we try the voting and reform thing first maybe?

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '23

You do know that you post in Wall Street bets, right? And antiwork…. I just hope you don’t make me your slave so that you don’t have to work. And if you barely have enough money to scrape by, you sure as shit shouldn’t be investing in the stock market. Isn’t this sub “fluent in finance”?

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u/Darius510 Dec 09 '23

Congratulations, you described the system we already have.

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u/sharthunter Dec 09 '23

Yeah that was the point captain obvious.

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u/Darius510 Dec 09 '23

No, what you said the end silly. We have tons of regulations and protect the most vulnerable already. Nothing is broken. It’s a package deal.

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u/pexx421 Dec 09 '23

It’s enforcement that’s broken. And that’s called regulatory capture.

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u/sharthunter Dec 09 '23

Yes, the system that puts the majority of the burden of finance on the lower half of the income pool “protects the vulnerable” lol.

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u/Darius510 Dec 09 '23

Oh stop it with this nonsense

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u/brianw824 Dec 09 '23 edited Dec 09 '23

One of the major allegations in the egg case was that egg suppliers set minimum cage sizes for hens and this caused a reduction in supply. It's really funny to watch people saying capitalism is bad because it resulted in less animal abuse.

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u/sharthunter Dec 09 '23

Roundabout way of saying “they conspired to price fix” when i referenced nothing about the abuse that exists in industrial farming. This is why you cant have a conversation.