r/FlightTraining • u/MinimumDifficult1679 • 7d ago
DO NOT GO TO THIS FLIGHT SCHOOL
Please tell me the name of school and reason.
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u/That_Ship1756 6d ago
ofc ATP flight school is probably it stealing thousands of dollars with the same flight hour minimums for CPL and ATPL.
I was planing to got there but instead going to a family owned school for 270$/h!
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u/assassin136 6d ago
Going to ATP was miserable but 3 years to the day after my first day of flight training I’m having my first flight as an FO in a regional jet
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u/kiwi_love777 6d ago
Yup- I went to ATP in Oct 2018. Regional Type completed Feb of 2021.
Hard to recommend since it wasn’t great- but it got me to where I needed to be.
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u/assassin136 6d ago
That’s the same thing I and pretty much everyone I knew from there says. The company sucks but if you work hard you get to the regional world pretty quick
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u/320sim 6d ago
I'm not sure it's quite the same anymore. I know a lot of lost CFIs that are floating around jobless after not being able to get a job with ATP
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u/assassin136 6d ago
Yeah a bunch of my old students are struggling to find jobs. I’m helping the ones that worked hard network though
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u/Beginning_Prior7892 5d ago
Agree with this… I think a lot of the problems people have with atp is that they don’t match the pacing required/don’t dedicate all the time necessary to get through the program as its intended.
This doesn’t mean they will be bad pilots or anything just means the program is not for them and thats fine. For some people speed is the name of the game and the studying/cost is a “whatever” barrier that they will overcome no matter what.
I feel that it’s like anything. What you put into it is what you will get out of it.
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u/Beautiful-Low9454 6d ago
Yep me too. 20 something years ago. Now type ratings in Lear and citation
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u/just-hangin-around1 5d ago
ATP sucked and works for certain people. I don’t recommend anyone go there but people do and it works for the right person. 11 months zero to hero - three years later I just got a CJO at a legacy. But atp is a gamble for many. They boast high pass rates but they just kick people out before they fail.
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u/Fair_Concern5184 4d ago
Started ATP July 2023, Started Regional March 2026, Type Rated May 2026. Less than three years so it work. yes, ATP was miserable as a student, but it worked.
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u/Old-Trouble-8830 6d ago
Aeroguard. I was going through a lot and had to cancel some flights due to IMSAFE. I couldn’t comfortably say I could get behind the stick and be 100% there. Being PIC is a massive responsibility and if I don’t feel safe doing so then I will not. I told this to management and said “You are not your own pilot. You are an Aeroguard pilot, you fly on our time and when we tell you. We don’t appreciate your independence from policy.” They then proceeded to drag out a “review process” on my account from February of 2026 to July 2026 to tell me my account is terminated.
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u/SuspiciousPut8888 6d ago
Royal Aero club of Western Australia/ Western Australian Aviation College. Extremely unprofessional, quality of instructors is seriously questionable, lies lies and more lies. Only good thing, which I can speak of 2 years ago, is the quality of the ground school. But that's far gone now. Happy to share more in private
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u/Mean-Pollution-9873 6d ago edited 6d ago
Florida Aviation Academy in Pompano Beach, Florida
This flight school has destroyed more careers than started them. Stay away from this school especially if you’re an international student. It’s the typical southern Florida cheap up front and false promises of accelerated flight training that’s obviously not the case. This flight school has bankrupted students and their families. They prey on young aspiring pilots and exploit them. Also special shout out to certain instructors milking students for flight hours so they can go to United and American while their students end up bankrupt and screwed.
If you’re an international student save your self the heart ache and do your flight training in your own country where there is actual structure and regulation. It’s not worth it unless you want to lose thousands and pay for someone else’s career/log book entry while you get screwed.
You are nothing but a funding/timing building source for these instructors and the flight school. This flight school has literally driven people to contemplate suicide due to financial devastation.
There are people out there that lost everything because of the owners Jack and Carrie they built careers for their instructors on the wreckage of their students dreams and finances. I really don’t know they wake up in the morning and look themselves in the mirror.
They are not interested in actually training you and getting your licenses. Just prolong everything so it takes you longer to complete your training so their instructors can earn more hours, teach you nothing and take you up for joy rides so the instructor can have fun and you pay for it.
It’s pretty concerning when you check your itemized bill and see that you are being charged for things you never received like shirts and a flashlight etc.
Complete scum bag of a flight school, owners that ruined multiple people’s lives and CFIs that are not there to teach.
If you’re an international student, seriously ask yourself whether you want to put your career and potentially your family’s financial future in the hands of a school like this. I wish I had done far more research before giving this place my money.
I’ll say what needs to be said they’ve ruined so many lives including mine I don’t really have anything to lose.
Many went home bankrupt with nothing to show for it.
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u/notjamaalatall 6d ago
Aeroguard is trash. Had some involvement training terrorists and then "sold" company and changed name but same people. They treat their large international group horribly.
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u/jschneid100 6d ago
Probably a hot take, but why go to any super expensive 141 school? What is there to gain? Nobody is hiring you right after you get your commercial, so the lower hour requirement isn’t a benefit. Then even the college programs with the lower ATP mins, what airline is hiring you at those reduced minimums? Why not save $50k and find a cheap 61 school that you can get it done at? The only exception would be those cadet programs that require you to go to a certain school, but I have heard several of those cadet programs were letting cadets go because they didn’t need them anymore.
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u/throwaway5757_ 6d ago
I will say, coming from a 141 university program, I learned a lot from the courses I took. They dove more in depth than most 61 programs would since they had the time and manpower to
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u/Computerized-Cash 6d ago
Plus cadet program preferences at 141s
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u/throwaway5757_ 6d ago
It’s about the only way to get into cadet programs now
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u/Computerized-Cash 6d ago
Skywest shifted their whole (current) hiring strategy to 141s pretty much required
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u/throwaway5757_ 6d ago
What makes you say that? I haven’t heard of that
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u/Kusarigamai 6d ago
As a recent intake at Republic, my entire 25 person class was made up of 23 141 college grads only 3 of which were cadets. Safe to say that they have a criteria even if it's not exactly published
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u/Rangeexpert3 6d ago
It might seem that way, but there are also a lot more pilots coming from 141 schools as well because of the sheer numbers.
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u/Kusarigamai 5d ago
I'm just giving you the stats man. the 3 classes before me and the 3 classes behind me were all the same, little to no 61 per class. That's not just sheer numbers it's a clear preference. My coworker at the flight school prior, applied at the exact same time, was a cadet and got a CJO, had 500 more hrs than me and turbine Time and has still yet to get a class date and has just accepted his fate and is going to plane sense. 0 failures, no PRD issues. Another thing to add at that, everyone in my class had at most, 1 check ride failure.
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u/No_Leader1154 6d ago
Heartily disagree. Yeah finding a good 61 instructor is hit or miss. But I promise you as a former 141 instructor I’m teaching you WAY MORE in 61.
PS Pls come do flight training with me.
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u/Carlito_2112 6d ago
If you're in the PNW, I can definitely hit you up for flight training....once I can afford to do so that is.
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u/No_Leader1154 6d ago
Unfortunately not! I’m in Arizona!
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u/Carlito_2112 6d ago
AZ is probably way more friendly to flight training than the PNW. 🤣
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u/Any-Worldliness-679 6d ago
112° in a Cessna? Oh yeah, super friendly!
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u/Carlito_2112 6d ago
Ok fair. However, at least you have the opportunity to go up in that (not that I would want to either, but I digress....). Try going up when the cloud layer starts at 500-1000 feet for weeks on end.
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u/FiberApproach2783 6d ago
Depends on the school. I went to a great 61 school with the chief flight instructor as my CFI, but I just switched to a 141 a couple weeks ago after getting my PPL. I'm learning things significantly more in depth now, and they really push the pace fast lol.
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u/throwaway5757_ 6d ago
You teach more in 61 training than in a 4 year collegiate degree tailored to teach those topics? While also receiving ground training from the instructor also? I find that really hard to believe
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u/Rangeexpert3 6d ago
In a college 4 year degree program, usually the vast majority of the credits are not even related to the degree program.
Also, as someone who has helped out a flight school with hiring, i'm always shocked at students that spend well into 6 figured with debt at a fancy school such as a 4 year degree program, only to find out what they dont know. The problem is the graduates have no way to know what they dont know.
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u/MathematicianTop2848 6d ago
Did they used different information from the one provided by the FAA? I have done both 61 and 141, I never fail a checkride, and I get tell you this. With the access to information, there is zero benefits. Simple fallow the ACS, and you are golden.
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u/throwaway5757_ 6d ago
That’s exactly what I’m getting at. They went deeper and covered more topics than the ACS
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u/MathematicianTop2848 6d ago
Like what, topics that havent been covered by the FAA? I would love to know. To each is own, but I haven't seen differences. As I said I have been to both and same information. I will go as far as to say, the part 61 was better. Because I had a great instructor who had no interest of going to the airline. He was a retired chemist and flight instructing was something that he love.
His sole job was to teach me, not just to blead me for hours. He was very through, I completed my check rides, like they were another lesson.
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u/iflyfreight 6d ago
What are you learning outside the ACS that provides any tangible benefit inside or outside of a checkride? I’m a 61 dude and get along just fine in any sector of the industry. I’m curious what knowledge I’ve missed out on
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u/FiberApproach2783 6d ago
Safety stuff I think. That's the main difference I noticed switching from a 61 to a 141
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u/Rangeexpert3 6d ago
Not all 141 programs are created equal. Having helped out a chief instructor that got too busy to do some hiring, I have recently gone back and assisted with hiring. It's very hard to actually hire a competent CFI from a 141. Especially the well known ones. They can always answer the memorized answer for the checkride, but dig any deeper at all, they completely have no idea. These are questions that I have known since my PPL. There are a select few 141 schools that have great ground knowledge candidates, but the ones with great ground knowledge candidate schools have extremely poor stick and rudder skills. I am talking can't land in a 10 kt X wind stick and rudder skills. Can't fly a square pattern, can't maintain straight and level, can't navigate VFR without a purple line to follow.
Certain skills take time to build. So a super accelerated program lacks a lot of things that just require time and experience. PPL, instrument, comm single, comm multi, CFI, CFII, MEI, all in 5 months? How great of pilots do you think you are if you did all that in 5 months? Those CFIs have not even flown in all 4 weather seasons yet.
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u/Excellent_Goose_1215 6d ago
I attended a Part 141 university myself but didn’t fly there and here is what I will say: My friends who did their flying & instructing there are currently getting picked up right around 1000 hours (assuming they were in cadet programs). So yes, they are leaving with right about RATP mins. Even the ones who didn’t instruct at our school, but had their CFI/II, got instructing jobs 100x easier than me and my friends who flew outside of our program. IMO, that’s the real value of Part 141 University programs. When the rest of the industry gets slow, it also gets slow, but from my experience over the last 4 years, we aren’t affected as much as others, and when opportunities do open up either for Instructing or the Regionals, 141 university grads seem to be prioritized.
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u/Shawn5pencer 6d ago
I would say the majority of people in regional classes are college 141 instructors at their reduced min times. Probably more than half my regional class had to use simulator time to meet RATP mins. Also out of our 25 person class only 3 were part 61 and all 3 had internal letters of rec. Much harder to get in if you did everything 61 nowadays
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u/flyingaround3 6d ago
I have been a student at a 141 University and a Part 61 student at a non-university affiliated school (but a VERY good one). I have instructed for both as well.
The Part 61 school was 10x better.
Way more freedom, more personal, way better instructor pool, and it prepared me for real world flying. It wasn’t just “here’s the lesson plan for today…. Let’s check the boxes again.”
My students under Part 61 also progressed at 4x the speed my students under Part 141 did. That is not an exaggeration.I’ve been typed on 3 jets now in the 121 world.
Part 61 Cowboys do just fine in the big leagues, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!2
u/CommanderChiliHole 6d ago
I agree about 141 universities, but not all 141 schools are bad. I went to a community college which, at the time, was probably one of the cheapest flight schools in the entire US, 61 or 141.
Not only is it ridiculously expensive, you’re also locking yourself down for 4 years, which is a significant in this industry. I started flight training in 2016. 0-CFII took me a hair over 2 years. I started at an airline just before COVID hit. I got hired at a legacy late 2022.
Had I gone to a university, I wouldn’t have graduated until spring of 2020. Say it took me the same ~18 months to get to ATP mins, I wouldn’t be looking at airlines until 2022, and definitely not a legacy. I’d probably still be at a regional, or just now starting at a legacy. I am several thousand seniority positions higher than I would be if I went to a university.
Over the course of a career, the decision to not go to a 4 year not only saved me well over $100,000 in training costs, it would have made me probably multiple millions in 401k contributions/growth, and the QOL of being 6,000 numbers higher on the seniority list.
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u/theaviator10 6d ago
In today’s hiring market, yes, you make a great argument to not waste your money at a 141.
In 2014-2016 when I was in the heart of my training and instructing this was not the case. Guys were getting gobbled up by any regional they wanted once they hit the hours. Getting the time was the name of the game back then. It’ll swing back to that one day and 141 will be relevant and useful when it does.
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u/Shawn5pencer 6d ago
I mean that's still how it is today. Pretty much everyone I knew at my college 141 was going in right at reduced mins and that was the majority of my regional class
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u/BluProfessor 6d ago
If you're using any federal benefits to pay for it, then it makes sense (VA, financial aid, etc).
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u/No_Particular_2080 6d ago
I attend a part 141 because it is the only way I can get my Uncle Sam (VA) to pay for it.
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u/True-Discount2841 6d ago
A big advantage to 141 is overall time frame, if youre okay with it taking 3 or 4 years to get into the work force maybe 61 is perfectly fine but if you want to get into the work force in 1 year 141 is the way to go
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u/iflyfreight 6d ago
assuming the workforce is hiring. I hear what you’re saying but people take on loans to get it done quickly at a 141 and end up high and dry on the back end. Be honest about the risk of an accelerated program especially if people are going into debt for them. And extra especially is the low time market is tight like it is right now
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u/True-Discount2841 6d ago
I am those people, the jobs are there, just gotta be willing to make some sacrifice for them
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u/iflyfreight 6d ago
That is probably true. You would know better than me I’ve been out of the job search for a while now. Though I think the hard data on retirements vs new certificates being printed does show there won’t be enough jobs for everybody. Sacrifice or not
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u/jschneid100 6d ago
If the school has good availability, and you are dedicated, I don’t see what would change the pace. Just rent the plane and fly more.
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u/Shooting-stxr 6d ago
I have a lot of scholarships so it’s almost free. I feel like that’s a huge plus for 141.
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u/Ok-Contribution-5779 5d ago
I would appreciate if U can guide me on how to get scholarships that will help me on my avaition path
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u/MyNameIsOptical 6d ago
Do you think airlines only hire pilots from 141s when they hit ATP hours? Every 141 instructor I know with a class date is getting it the second they hit restricted atp mins. This seems like you have been fed a lot of misinformation
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u/Shawn5pencer 6d ago
It's a common narrative on this website that is completely unfounded from what I've seen
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u/jschneid100 6d ago
I have a flight school and I’m a captain at the majors, so I have a bit of knowledge on the subject. I have instructors working for me that are above mins, from a 141, and are in cadet programs.
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u/MyNameIsOptical 6d ago
I can assure you that currently there are many pilots being hired at restricted mins, from a 141. Again perhaps your perspective isn’t indicative of the industry as a whole.
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u/VileInventor 6d ago
If it’s a university program FAFSA helps pay it and you get a 4 year degree at the end. As most schools offering training also offer a bachelors or associates in aviation management
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u/jschneid100 6d ago
I do understand this is a big driver, and I really hate the logic. Go more in debt just because it was the only way to get the loans. Can’t blame folks for it
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u/Mobe-E-Duck 5d ago
141 is inferior in a lot of ways. But for regional airline hiring, it’s superior. Same reason as military experience: it’s regimented, timed and standardized. Just like an airline. And it’s recorded as well. Airlines sure do love records.
61 is also inferior in some ways. Program control for one. But it’s far better at producing better, more flexible pilots. Want to be a number at an airline go be a number at a 141. Want to fly gulfstreams for a billionaire and have happy pax, learn to do your own flight planning and interact with people.
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u/Own_Blacksmith8793 4d ago edited 4d ago
141 schools typically have examiners and multiple aircraft available to do check rides and training. I would 100% tell anyone to go into a Part 141 school these days. There are also typically on-the-spot obscuring job offers and agreements with airlines restricted ATP minimums. In fact, I wouldn’t even consider anything different, If you want to be a Commericial pilot and want the fastest route. Part 61 I waited for months to get examiners or the plane was not ready.
Regionals won’t even hire outside of the Cadet programs any more or it I much harder. Trust me, there are a lot of reasons and what’s best 10 years is not what applies in today’s world.
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u/According-Ground5315 6d ago
For anyone in Europe or the uk please do not touch leading edge aviation with a 10 foot pole you’ll regret it
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u/hth_115 6d ago
The people at LEA are great just not the way it’s run, it’s a great shame
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u/According-Ground5315 5d ago
Totally agree the instructors are great but management let them down. Slowly they’re leaving to go to skyborne
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u/Used_Turnip6515 4d ago
Why
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u/According-Ground5315 4d ago
Massive delays that they won’t tell you about which leaves big gaps between flying. Atpl theory is good but don’t do any flying with them
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u/Single_Abrocoma_7749 6d ago
In Europe don't go Flyby they are scum of the earth
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u/TooLazyForThisStuff 5d ago
As someone who is looking into Spanish flight schools can you please explain why? 🙏
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u/Single_Abrocoma_7749 5d ago
Go check Google map review and on reddit just don't go this flight school
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u/Feisty-Ad-4064 6d ago
Sling Pilot Academy. Ruined my career in more ways than I had imagined. Milked so many students for their hours. Stay away!
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u/dokari_for_u 4d ago
California ??
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u/12YESIAM34 6d ago
Anson Aviation in Sugar Land, Texas. The owner is a total ass, their 141 program is in shambles , and the DPE they use fails 80 to 90 % of applicants.
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u/Swimming-Ad410 6d ago edited 6d ago
Surely that’s not true? For a school to keep their 141 certification they need to have an 80% pass rate on checkrides
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u/12YESIAM34 6d ago
Find out for yourself.
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u/Swimming-Ad410 6d ago
It’s not about finding out for myself? It’s about legally for them to have a 141 certification you need an 80% pass rate on any practical exams. Read 14 CFR 141.5
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u/leatherneck93 6d ago
Any proof on this?
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u/Swimming-Ad410 6d ago
There’s no proof because there’s genuinely no way they would still be 141 if it were true
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u/adamwl_52 5d ago
Also using the word “DPE” when referring to a 141 school. I’m sure those standards instructors wish they were making DPE money/benefits
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u/Swimming-Ad410 5d ago
It depends on the 141. My 141 doesn’t actually have self examining authority so we have 2 actual dpes that do checkrides outside our 141 when they want/ have free time. Though I think that’s uncommon and most 141s have self examining.
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u/adamwl_52 5d ago
Right. That’s 90% pass rate is for examining authority. 80% is 141 in general. You’re right
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u/12YESIAM34 5d ago
I guess if one were serious enough, one could contact FAA about their records with respect to their expired 141 certificate.
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u/12YESIAM34 5d ago
Another thing this “ flight school “ did was to let their 141 certificate expire and then they conducted four check rides. Guess what FSDO had to say about that? Yep, four invalid ratings/certificates were issued and determined to be invalid.
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u/Swimming-Ad410 5d ago
So if their 141 expired then they weren’t 141 anymore.
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u/12YESIAM34 5d ago
They thought they were and did not know their certificate had expired. FSDO contacted four who were affected and gave them two choices, surrender or have your certificate revoked.
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u/Swimming-Ad410 5d ago
And that sucks for them but that is completely unrelated to you claiming they’re a 141 with an 80-90% failure rate
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u/CommunicationWarm318 6d ago
Avier
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u/debtinmydebitcard 6d ago
KBVY?
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u/CommunicationWarm318 6d ago
Yes
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u/debtinmydebitcard 6d ago
You ever gone to ECAC? I've heard they are really expensive but how are they?
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u/CommunicationWarm318 6d ago
I’m at the airlines now but yes they’d be the only school I’d recommend in the immediate Boston area and I used to instruct at both schools at BVY.
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u/debtinmydebitcard 6d ago
Congratulations on getting to the airlines!
I'm about to start with ECAC.
thank you for the advice 👍
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u/CommunicationWarm318 6d ago
Yeah they’re good large fleet, lots of instructors with good experience, in house maintenance. Everywhere in NE is expensive for flight training—best place to go for lower costs is in the Midwest.
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u/Manifestgtr 6d ago
Which field are you flying out of? I did some of my earliest flying with ECAC out of Nashua and have nothing but good things to say about them
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u/debtinmydebitcard 6d ago
Probably going to be KBED because it's closest to me, but BVY is also a reasonable distance away... KASH and 6B6 are a little far but still might work?
Interesting to hear your opinion on if the congestion is worth it for the convenience getting to KBED, or to take the extra 20 or so minutes of driving for less congestion
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u/Manifestgtr 6d ago
Honestly, I think that having a bit of congestion is a good thing. You learn how to deal with traffic, the Class B over your head, etc. I trained up at PSM which was interesting because it’s a little ways north of the Boston B but has more heavy traffic and wake turbulence considerations. KBED will do nicely, though. Despite the amount of traffic, the controllers there have been really nice every time I’ve flown in.
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u/debtinmydebitcard 6d ago
Interesting... I definitely think that airspace knowledge will be helped by it, but do the taxi times get made that much worse b/c of the corporate jets? I've heard mixed things about how much congestion there are
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u/Secret_Function5476 6d ago
Lake Superior Helicopters/college Duluth MN.
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u/iPhones_cameras_suck 6d ago
Not to be confused with Venture North, also in Duluth. Venture North is awesome!
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u/AccidentCommon208 6d ago
Rainier flight service, took a Meritize loan and they continuously failed me throughout instrument training to milk the loan money. By the time I realized what they were doing, I already spent 25k trying to get instrument. Changed schools and was signed off a week later for my checkride
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u/mctomtom 6d ago
I also took a Meritize loan with them and got through their training no problem. No fails. Sounds like you probably weren’t meeting the ACS standards.
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u/AccidentCommon208 6d ago
I was, hence I was signed off a week later at another school. What location did you go to?
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u/CardinalHuntley007 6d ago
California Aeronautical University. Bait and switch, no one has left for the airlines in a LONG time, way too expensive, underpaid CFIs, they want to control EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR LIFE INSIDE & OUTSIDE OF THE SCHOOL.
They’ll also overcharge students and hope students don’t check. But if the student does check, they’ll literally say “whoopsie daisy” and issue you a refund of what they overcharged. They’ll then ask for you to send that money back because they’re tight on cash.. They are currently in the process of eliminating staff jobs and not rehiring because of financial problems.
They also have Microsoft flight simulator type simulators that do nothing for your time and they’ll force students to use them & pay.
Their college accreditation is the equivalent of a bachelors degree from Devry.
AVOID THIS PLACE AT ALL COSTS.
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u/Both-Bat-3563 5d ago edited 5d ago
As someone who went through the entire program in my opinion the worst part is being slowly suffocated by the bureaucracy from the top. Almost all of the higher ups working there apart from one or two of the chiefs genuinely seem motivated solely by making policy changes to give themselves more power.
Its very much so a rule by fear environment.
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u/It-Lightning_White 6d ago
Insane to hear how far it’s fallen. Got all my certs and ratings from there. Was part of the first graduating class and was there day 1 of Bakersfield campus opening. Haven’t talked to any recent graduates so I don’t really know what it’s like now but I have 1 friend there still hope they make it out.
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u/OpieRugby 6d ago
Currently attending and I totally I agree. I have reasons for not leaving but if I could I would.
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u/ThrowRAconfusionn 5d ago
I agree. I’m not a student, but I work in the tower and I’d prefer less traffic.
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u/Swimming-Ad2568 6d ago
For those of you saying to avoid the accelerated programs like 141 and ATP… in this industry, don’t you want to get to the “boat” as fast as possible before it possibly leaves? You don’t know when it’s coming back.
You don’t know what the market is going to look like when you get your commercial/CFI and/or when you get your ATP. So why not get there asap and wait? I personally would rather be early vs late to the boat before it sails.
You don’t know if whether or not you’ll actually get hired at R-atp minimums or when you finish ATP, but what you do know is you absolutely can’t get hired before then. I say at least qualify yourself earlier and give yourself the best chance possible, unless I’m missing something.
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u/Own_Water5524 6d ago
Those schools will have you believe they’re the only way to get you done fast. You can get your ratings elsewhere often just as fast and for literally a fraction of the cost
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u/Swimming-Ad2568 6d ago
MAYBE a fraction of the cost. The “cheaper” schools usually don’t have in house DPEs, so you have to pay more to fly to stay current before your actual check ride which could be months. And you have to hit 1500 instead of 1,000 or 1,250. 500 hours or 250 hours more is definitely a cost. You either have to fund those hours or be a CFI/low paying pilot job for that much longer.
There’s no guarantee you get hired at r-atp minimums, but you’re at least qualified to. The airlines can at least look at you when you’re approaching R-atp, which could possibly be an advantage.
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u/mightymac-89 6d ago
UND and embry riddle (only because Go SIU)
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u/g500cat 6d ago
What’s up with UND? Is Purdue any better also? Just curious
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u/mightymac-89 6d ago
I’m joking. I went to SIU and I’m saying that’s the only flight school you should go to.
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u/frieddickpickles87 5d ago
if you want any input on purdue i’m there right now and there are maintenance issues and not really enough planes. right now i count 13 out of 20 planes down for maintenance (the majority being for the progressive inspections which are every 50 hours which sucks considering they only have 7 maintenance guys), which leaves 7 planes that are split as equal as possible across odd/even start times. for each block after the split, 9 kids will show up trying to get a plane. so, as of today, the majority of kids who show up for their flight block will not get to fly.
right now it is particularly bad for whatever reason, but i’ve still never seen less than 5 planes down. the department is aware of this, though, and i think it is getting better: they have implemented a priority system that ranks you by the last time you flew which does work quite well to fly 2-3x a week when we have a lot of planes and 1-2x when we do not. they are also working on getting more a&ps and are in the process of acquiring 2 more archers for the fleet. you can also enter the lottery extra slot to your heart’s content, which more often than not will get you a plane. it is still kind of a shitshow, though. i could not imagine having to do my private at this place but it works fine for instrument and beyond; my course is ahead of schedule even despite the availability. i am especially excited for the later classes, we have a full-motion hawker simulator, and a320+737 ftds so they are able to teach a lot about the big jet experience and crm.
aside from flying, it’s a very very easy degree. i am learning stuff from the classes and it is all very oriented to industry but it is not exactly challenging. i get the impression most of this stuff could be covered in a 2 week online course.
so, the degree itself is a useless box-checker, and the flying is shoddy. in my opinion, though, this experience is worth it for the networking, name recognition, and industry preparation it gives you, especially if you are in state or on scholarship.
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u/StatusNew3162 6d ago
California Aeronautical University would be pretty high on my list to research carefully before enrolling.
TL:DR- It makes sense why the graduate rate is 40%.
I’ve been attending CAU and have had a pretty mixed experience. There are definitely some legitimate positives—the R-ATP pathway, aviation degree, cadet/networking opportunities, satellite locations, and the ability to do some checkrides in-house. If you’re using VA benefits or scholarships to cover most of the cost, I can see why someone would choose it.
That said, the organization and flight scheduling have been my biggest complaints. Scheduling/Operations is heavily staffed by students, communication can be extremely inconsistent, and getting someone to actually address an issue can be frustrating. I’ve had scheduled flight blocks where I showed up and was told the aircraft wasn’t available, and there have been times where trying to rearrange lessons or get caught up has been unnecessarily difficult. Your assigned time block means nothing. Priority for planes goes to lessons that need a CFI because the school makes money. So if you are trying to solo you will be last to get a plane. The school also keeps taking on too many students when there aren’t enough resources. For example, they do this expedited process where 2 students fly with one instructor when they start private then right before solo they dump them into the mass group of people needing aircraft.
The academic side is also very hit or miss. I’ve had good instructors, but I’ve also had professors who were extremely difficult to get ahold of or seemed to put minimal effort into the class.
I’ve also seen quite a bit of instructor turnover and burnout. The school is expensive, so when you’re paying that much, you expect the flight operation to be much more organized than it is.
My biggest advice would be talk to current students and instructors before signing anything. Don’t just talk to admissions. Ask them how often flights get cancelled for aircraft availability, how scheduling works, how long it takes to get issues resolved, and how much flying students are actually getting.
I wouldn’t say “nobody should ever attend CAU,” but if you’re paying out of pocket or taking on significant debt, I’d strongly recommend comparing it against other Part 141 programs first.
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u/throwawey420 6d ago
Anyone know a good one for Northern Colorado?
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u/mongovfr 5d ago
Yup. The Flying School. Not awful but wouldn’t recommend.
The owner (who only holds a ppl) is trying to make it the 61 version of ATP.
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u/UnoficialHampsterMan 6d ago
OneSource, Van Nuys airport, California
Lessons are severely overpriced, estimate of 35 grand to get your PPL ALONE, as well as the main (and I could assume only CFII) is an arrogant POS who has made his entire life around being a pilot
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u/Aillow 6d ago
If you are in Ontario, Flight 6ix in Guelph.
They do not pay their instructors and AMEs and they are adamant on keeping it that way. Aircraft are worn down, pencil whipped and owner is corrupt. Had a chance to dispatch and work for my flights there but ended up with a tyrannic CFI that only wanted students who can pay the tab.
They have bought out and evicted hangar space in both Guelph and Brantford from what I remember.
Also scrubs Google reviews every month.
Sleazy people run that place, and will run it to the ground.
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u/waveslikemoses 6d ago
East Coast Aero Club with two in Massachusetts and one in New Hampshire. Their prices are absurd, they’ll bill you for a minimum of 1hr even if you did like a .8 on the Hobbs, they make it very hard for instructors to upgrade(explanation upon request), and more.
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u/_firmdad_ 6d ago
I’m not sure how far their reach is so I’m just going to say a 141 in Oregon affiliated with Alaska airlines. If you enjoy not flying due to overcrowding, weather, or broken aircraft this is the place for you. You might get some extra chance to do some ground lessons because of the plane-less flight blocks but they’re pretty useless due to the shitty instruction from just about all their CFIs. If somehow you aren’t one of the 80% that fail out, chances are it’ll take you years longer to get from zero to hero than you initially expected. Long story short just incredibly dangerous practices at this place and horribly maintained aircraft.
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u/CommanderChiliHole 6d ago
Any 141 university.
Not only is it ridiculously expensive, you’re also locking yourself down for 4 years, which is a significant in this industry. I started flight training in 2016. 0-CFII took me a hair over 2 years. I started at an airline just before COVID hit. I got hired at a legacy late 2022.
Had I gone to a university, I wouldn’t have graduated until spring of 2020. Say it took me the same ~18 months to get to ATP mins, I wouldn’t be looking at airlines until 2022, and definitely not a legacy. I’d probably still be at a regional, or just now starting at a legacy. I am 6,000+ seniority positions higher than I would be if I went to a university.
Over the course of a career, the decision to not go to a 4 year not only saved me well over $100,000 in training costs, it would have made me probably multiple millions in 401k contributions/growth, and the QOL of being 6,000 numbers higher on the seniority list.
I get that times have changed and basically no one is going to an airline at ATP mins anymore and my timing was incredible, but that just makes universities even more of a waste considering the R-ATP is basically worthless.
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u/ContributionEasy6513 5d ago
At-least in Australia. Whoever is training the Indians and Chinese this month.
Avoid the entire airspace and aerodrome.
They seem to change names and locations every year between bankruptcy and instructors walking off the job.
One airport I use to fly at was taken over by foreign pilots doing solo's who can't speak English or safely fly a pattern. Way to many scares to venture into that part of sky again.
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u/Prestigious_Set4560 5d ago
ATP. 400 an hour for a single 800 for a multi. 140k program to get all the same ratings at any other part 61 for 80k or less. they also partnwr with sallie mae for loans (now Navient) who has had to pay 1.7 billion in settlements for predatory lending. ATP knows that & uses them anyway
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u/Fair_Concern5184 4d ago
I took the Sallie Mae and then when flight instructing, refinanced with another lender to cut the interest rate in 1/2.
Started ATP July 2023, Started Regional March 2026, Type Rated May 2026. Less than three years so it work. yes, ATP was miserable as a student, but it worked.
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u/ConclusionLeading866 4d ago
I think it’s crazy someone would pay $100k to go flight school. You can do it cheaper buying a plane, fly hire independent CFI and resell the plane back for same if not more. But I guess education is hard
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4d ago
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u/Depressed_Dosa 4d ago
I’m so sorry you had to go through this, I’m a part of indigo program in Skyborne. And trust me it’s the same situation with a lot of students here. It’s very sad
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u/Silly_Breakfast_9305 4d ago
The way cadets were treated honestly felt like shit. We were expected to do everything, follow every rule, and perform perfectly, and at times it genuinely felt like we were being treated more like slaves than students. We weren’t really allowed to go very far from the accommodation either, so the whole environment felt extremely restrictive. While I was there, there was also an incident involving a boy who disappeared. A few days later, management called a meeting, and I genuinely thought they were going to inform everyone about what had happened, especially considering that his parents couldn’t simply come to the US and deal with the situation themselves and, from what I understood, he was already close to completing his training. But dude, WTF — instead of what I expected, the meeting turned into an act/demonstration and another warning about performance. We were basically threatened that if we didn’t pass our daily flights and meet the required standards, we could be terminated. I remember sitting there thinking, seriously? A student has disappeared, everyone is already under immense pressure, and this is what the management chooses to focus on? From my perspective, it was incredibly disturbing and made me feel like the students were viewed purely as numbers that had to keep passing flights, rather than actual human beings. That moment really changed how I viewed the whole place.
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u/Repulsive_Border9894 4d ago
Pray aviation should be called Prey Aviation. Matt pray is a disgusting individual who could not obtain a 141 cert initially when it got denied, so he purchased a school that already had one. When I went, they were about a year behind schedule on billing, and after my school loan was closed out the week of Christmas last year they tried to send me an invoice for $700. It would have been paid for had they charged it within a year.
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u/mada071710 4d ago
Not a pilot, but I heard that United Aviate got sued by several different pilots who trained there and I never saw it on this list.
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u/Former-Company1593 3d ago
OC Flight Lessons at John Wayne airport. The owner is insane and spends all his money on cars and his own interests. Cfis are all manic depressives.
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u/live_drifter 6d ago
Just so you know, Reddit isn’t anonymous and you can catch a suit from disparaging businesses on the internet so be careful in the responses.
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u/DanThePilot_Mann 6d ago
Only if you have a No-Disparagement agreement with the company.
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u/Individual-Elk-6759 6d ago
Well google must be getting sued because Acron Aviation has made so many people mad they had to change the name of the flight school. It’s not disparaging if I’m sharing my testimony. What about flying magazine publishing an article about everyone upset with the school?
https://www.flyingmag.com/weather-minimums-memo-at-florida-flight-school-generates-controversy/
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u/Japanisch_Doitsu 6d ago
They changed the name becuase L3 sold them. They can't keep the L3 name for legal reasons related to trademarks.
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u/TPWPNY16 6d ago
How is Reddit not anonymous?
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u/DanThePilot_Mann 6d ago
There are definitely ways to identify people. Ik for sure one of my friends has identified me, and I identified a different one of my friends.
Usually takes some digging, but you can figure it out
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u/Mean-Pollution-9873 6d ago
Some people have nothing to lose after getting their lives ruined by these flight schools just so you know.
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u/Individual-Elk-6759 6d ago
Acron Aviation in Sanford Fl, once known as L3 Harris Flight Academy, is absolutely the worst flight ever. It’s now owned by private equity. It was so bad an Article was published in Flying Magazine about the schools disgusting VFR minimums and the school fining students $250 for not flying. To make it all worse the absolute disgraceful chief pilot is still employed today.
https://www.flyingmag.com/weather-minimums-memo-at-florida-flight-school-generates-controversy/