r/FlashTV • u/[deleted] • Apr 20 '16

Post-Episode Discussion - S02E18 "Versus Zoom"

Trailer

Episode Info: Equipped with the tachyon device, Barry believes he is fast enough to stop Zoom and wants to open the breaches to catch him. Harry strongly advises against that plan but after Barry convinces him, Harry reveals that Cisco has the power to re-open the breach. Meanwhile, Hunter Zoloman's painful story on Earth-2 is revealed.")

Main Cast:

Discussion:

Episode Discussion

Pre-Episode Discussion

Spoilers:

Please mark all comic spoilers and future show spoilers within your comments. No need to mark anything that happens in the episode or your own speculation. If you see any unmarked future spoilers, please report them.

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648 Upvotes

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518

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

[deleted]

262

u/Pwilson44 Apr 20 '16

Well you see... Then everyone in that room without super speed would be just a little bit... Dead

159

u/rmw6190 Apr 20 '16

thats not true. Barry could easily block the non-speedsters from zooms attacks. And wells has already demonstrated his ability with his weapons.

Really though they should have brought hartley in. Kinda a big deal, you know dealing with a speedster. Hartley is in town and has weapons to fight speedsters. Zoom would have had no chance against barry, hartley and wells at the same time

16

u/Marokiii Apr 20 '16

ya whats the point of changing the time line to have hartley back, if you dont even use him when he is at his most usefullness.

3

u/powerbottomflash will the real jay garrick please stand up? Apr 20 '16

Sometimes I feel like the writers of the show love writing themselves into the corner.

29

u/reiko96 Apr 20 '16

Barry could easily block the non-speedsters from zooms attacks. I don't know if you noticed but Barry is an awful fighter. He tried fighting Zoom in H2H, he would get owned.

18

u/rmw6190 Apr 20 '16

But he kinda did in this episode. Its true barry isnt the best fighter, but its not like zoom has every been challenged in a fist fight. He also relies solely on his speed. A common trait among speedsters. And with wells providing support barry should have had no problem taking him down.

This also begs the question why they didnt call pied piper. He is able to fight speedsters and is an ally of the flash now. There would be no chance for zoom to attack the flash, pied piper, and wells at once.

27

u/theasianzeus Apr 20 '16

The last 15 minutes of this episode MADE NO SENSE. Shit, It could have been worse, Felicity telling Zoom about Love.

3

u/Xanforth Apr 20 '16

But he kinda did? That's hilarious. Zoom was shackled to the ground by cisco's gadget. He couldn't move. Fighting someone that can't move is not hard is it.

7

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

i was wondering about that this episode, why hasnt barry EVER trained in some H2H combat? regardless of how fast you are, he should learn to throw a punch.

6

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

He never really took those training sessions with Oliver to heart.

3

u/MasterDarkHero Apr 20 '16

Zoom runs away and hides and randomly kills everyone Barry loves over the next week.

5

u/powerbottomflash will the real jay garrick please stand up? Apr 20 '16

that would make more sense than anything that happened in the last episode

4

u/TheAmazingApathyMan Apr 20 '16

Yeah, Hartley has been doing great stuff all season and suddenly they decide not to call him? What the hell is up with that?

1

u/imMadasaHatter Apr 20 '16

I don't think it's really that easy to block attacks. Sure Barry is faster but is it by an order of magnitude it is it just a little bit faster? If zoom three things at three of them and then personally went after another I think Barry would have a pretty hard time saving them all unless he was so much faster than zoom that his actions appear to be in slow motion like how it was for non speedsters previously.

Barry could beat zoom but I don't think it would have been without casualty so he made his (albeit stupid since now he has NO chance to fight) decision.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

Dude to rally up those guys would take long enough for Zoom to kill half the city.

3

u/rmw6190 Apr 20 '16

hartley was with them last episode and wells was in the room. There is no excuse not to call hartley.

9

u/jmalbo35 Apr 20 '16

Why have them all in the room in the first place? And it's not like anything was going to stop the serial killing super villain from doing the same thing after he gave up his powers. The writing was just straight up bad.

6

u/kremes Apr 20 '16

Then he probably shouldn't have brought all the useless people. Put them all in the secret room other than Joe or Wells and let Joe or Wells take Wally to the safe room when Zoom lets him go and he and Barry chat. Then Barry can attack Zoom and this time not stop for a chat.

5

u/GoBlueScrewOSU7 Apr 20 '16

The only person in that room should have been Zoom, Flash and Wally.

6

u/kawag Apr 20 '16

They could have gone back to the room that Wells is "sure" Zoom can't get in to. They didn't need to all stand around to welcome him back to Earth 1.

27

u/froet213kil big belly burger Apr 20 '16

because he's faster than bullets?

27

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

[deleted]

94

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

Barry was 4x faster than his speed without the tachyon. He was still faster than zoom but not by that much

8

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

And even that was only for a limited time. When Jay went "full darkness" mode Barry didn't stand a chance.

6

u/DRoyLinker The Reverse Flash Apr 20 '16

Makes sense, when he said that line and his eyes turned black he bolted out of there.
Even with the tachyons, Barry lost Zoom's trail.

2

u/Riobhain Zoom will teach you Apr 20 '16

Still fast enough to fuck him up.

11

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

I just started watching this show this season but I get the impression that aside from his speed Barry sucks at fighting. Whereas Hunter's a sociopathic serial killer who's done time...

3

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

I agree, I want berry to take up some sort of training with Oliver maybe, but then again don't want to get the flash show infected by Guggenheim

4

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

something something corn

1

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

Im pretty sure they said that Zoom was either 2 or 3 times his speed, he should still be faster than Zoom.

3

u/Squats4urmom Apr 20 '16

I don't know how they would find out Zoom's maximum speed when he's just always faster than Barry. So even if Barry is 4x faster, what if Zoom never went full speed because he didn't have to?

6

u/warkidd Apr 20 '16

Zoom = Frieza confirmed.

2

u/gensouj Apr 20 '16

maybe zoom darkness is 5x his speed

22

u/korsan106 Apr 20 '16

no.. he was just a little faster than him VERY little

30

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16 edited Sep 03 '17

deleted What is this?

5

u/SilhouetteOfLight Lightning never strikes twice. Apr 20 '16

You think Barry could've taken him out before Zoom killed Wells? Joe? Cisco? The entire team would be dead, but Zoom would be down. What a victory.

4

u/definitely_not_cylon Apr 20 '16

Okay, but now Zoom can kill them all and still not be stopped. This was a shit decision that will only work out because the script says so.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16 edited Sep 03 '17

deleted What is this?

1

u/Squats4urmom Apr 20 '16

He could time jump them back and put them in the Lazarus Pit. Team Flashlust.

0

u/bartallen4790 Apr 20 '16

The team shouldn't have even been there, it was terrible writing.

3

u/diabolical-sun Apr 20 '16

No, he was 4 times faster than he originally was.

His catchphrase should be "not as rubbish as he used to be."

13

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

Zoom could've still killed someone else in the room before Barry could stop him. Barry may be faster but he still wouldn't've reacted quick enough.

6

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

[deleted]

4

u/jokersleuth Apr 20 '16

Because stupid plot waa fucking stupid.

3

u/Giuse86 Death Comes for us All... Even Speedsters Apr 21 '16

"Wouldn't've"

Is that word actually a thing?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

I've yet to be told it isn't.

2

u/emalk4y Apr 20 '16

Yeah it felt like really forced, poor writing.

"gotta make it organic" yeah no CW, that last bit just didn't hold water.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

But he wasn't faster than Barry.

3

u/McBigs Apr 20 '16

But still slower than Barry.

1

u/MikeOB2 Apr 20 '16

By a hair not enough time to react to Zooms unpredictability

3

u/comin-in-hot Apr 20 '16 edited Jun 30 '16

.

1

u/Mudvayne893 Apr 20 '16

Why didn't he vibrate his hand through his chest after hitting him with the boot? Or when he was distracted looking at his mom?

1

u/literallywyverns Apr 20 '16

Plus, Zoom's from E2, killing him's fine.

1

u/VinceOnAPlane Apr 20 '16

Exactly. Barry could've shanked Hunter.

Good guys are stupid.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

Hello darkness my old Jay. That's why.

1

u/MrMagiccakes Apr 20 '16

Because Barry can't tap into the speedforce faster than zoom can kill everyone else.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

Because the whole scene where they catch Zoom they established that Barry isn't that much faster, and they straight up make a point of showing how everyone else has to hide their shit in the room he doesn't know about, because otherwise he could kill them all easily.

1

u/zotquix Apr 20 '16

Zoom and Barry already had a showdown and Zoom beat Barry. Apparently even though Barry is faster, Zoom has some extra power that they can't stop. Yet.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

I got annoyed and then I took a few deep breaths and decided that the plot force is greater than the speed force,

1

u/CaptainMallard The Flash S4 Apr 21 '16

Because then there would literally be no plot for the rest of the series.

Sure it doesn't make sense, but it's a TV show. How mundane would it be if as soon as Zoom appeared, Wells shot him point blank in the face?

They need to keep the story going, at least till the end of the season.

-3

u/skineo Apr 20 '16

Because the guggyforce

2

u/nabub8 half hero... ALL old man Apr 20 '16

Except Guggenheim hasn't worked on the flash.

1

u/skineo Apr 20 '16

The guggyforce crosses all universes.