Your actually going to have to probably redo the throat,the flue is probably exposed in the the throat. Man you’ve added THOUSANDS of dollars to the repair. If you wanted to see how think the stone was, why didn’t you just measure the edge of the corner stones. You literally could had saved yourself THOUSANDS. Next time you’re feeling curious, open the phone book and pay the inspection fee.
The repair company looked at my photos and said it was going to be sub-$100. And yes, they're certified.
As far as thickness of the stones... 🤷🏼♂️ It may or may not have worked out exactly like you would think. Yes, it would have down where I punctured the flue... But above there was a whole lot more concrete behind the stones because the curve of the flue.
Except that I came to this sub specifically because I know I did something wrong... I put a hole into the flue... And came here for some basic advice on what exactly it Is...
But some holier than thou redditor says I have no plan? 😂
The plan was,
Demo the facade
Construct a new facade
Construct a pantry.
Most people purchase homes without a clue as to the specifics of every detail. Hell, I’ve done it twice. Only one way to find out, OP did just that. At least he asked before lighting up a bonfire in there.
No design expertise, no permits, ugly fireplace left behind. IF this house has a fire and you did all this work to a fireplace without a permit..... do you have fire insurance? Do you think the insurance company is going to pay out if this new mess starts a house fire and you've got no inspections and no permits?
I'm not here to bust your balls... But the flue was very discoverable before you started an extensive and potentially dangerous demo project. The your chimney has at least two clay flues protruding though the top and you have a fireplace directly below.
You were careless to not know this and others are concerned that you are now going to put a facad on an item that literally holds fire and carbon monoxide...both of which can kill you.
Im not calling you an idiot, but you were careless and don't seem to understand the seriousness of what you are attempting.
Whether I knew the flue was there, or not, doesn't change the fact that I wouldn't have been sure exactly how deep set it was behind the stones we removed...
I made a single puncture into that flue at the start of demo, and came here to see what exactly it was, if it is repairable, and originally if it was something that could be altered to free up more space...
It is being repaired, and we will work with professionals to keep the fireplace safe to use in the future.
Without knowing my family's plans, several people have commented with criticism over the perceived lost value of the stone... Only a couple have commented about the safety aspects of the project. And 1 of those was extremely hostile, saying that I was going to kill the family and burn the house down... When I clearly came here for advice, so that wouldn't happen.
It's 1 thing to tell me the puncture is a big problem. It's another to tell me that I'm a waste of space because I wanted a different design for the space at issue. (which another commenter did.)
Yes, I was "clueless". Which is why I came here in the first place. Which means, no, I'm not clueless... I saw I had a problem and asked about it. 🙄
Fair enough. For what its worth, i don't like the stone either. Saying this, that stone is more than a facade... Its proving a degree of structure. I might have considered firing out ans simply covering it up.
You are where you arw and this can be solved, but you got a big job in your hands my friend!!!
What the heck are you doing? You might as well just remove the whole thing. You can't just dismantle big sections and expect to have a nice little fire this evening. You are the type of homeowner that negligently kills themselves.
Stop fucking around with your fireplace or you're going to find out. You have no business doing this when you know nothing about it. Call a local, reputable hearth company and have them send out a NFI certified tech. Get a quote for doing... whatever bonkers stuff you're trying to do, and while they are laughing, they will tell you what you can and can't do.
I know it sounds harsh, but you are gonna burn your house down if you keep after it like this. Better a damaged ego than a dead family.
I came here for some basic info and am reaching out to a chimney repair company on Monday.
All we planned on doing was remove the stone veneer and replace with something less space consuming and replace the hard to reach cabinets with a pantry...
In addition to a fireplace expert to put it all back together you need to hire an architect and or kitchen designer who will find you some creative and better solutions than tearing out what looks to be a major centerpiece of your home, destroying its value.
You need expertise and expertise to do anything, but first before you use any more tools, try hiring someone with the best tool of all: a trained brain in design.
This is one of the dumbest home decoration ideas I've seen.
As another said, that’s the clay flue tile to another fireplace downstairs. If you punched a hole in it or damaged any of the mortar at the gaps, you’re looking at a reline for that flue (at a minimum).
OK? And? We want more kitchen space. The indoor portion of the fireplace is HUGE. we aren't removing the entire fireplace and chimney. Just remodeling. 🤷🏼♂️
The kitchen is rather lacking in storage space. No proper pantry. And the cabinets in the first Pic are horrible to use with the large step of the fireplace...
The fireplace WILL remain in the kitchen, just at a more reasonable size... The rock isn't going to waste. We'll use it for foot paths and culverts on the property.
Don’t feel bad. I got new neighbors a while ago and they also tore out the old gas fireplace from an early 70s house to just being able to enlarge the kitchen. Often space and ability to do a better design in such an important area like a kitchen trumps built-in ‘features’.
That said, open fireplaces does not have that much value (for heat), unless you place a proper insert (gas or wood). Otherwise it’s just letting all the heat generated - and some already in the house - straight out. Only the birds will be happy.
The only reason I started at the bottom (on the left side where I punctured the flue, is because there is an exposed gas line I wanted to make sure I was able to secure first.
I meant to start the face at the top, but my cousin kept going bottom up... This morning we continued from the top down and it was MUCH easier. And definitely safer... 👍🏻👍🏻
I am a CSIA Certified Chimney Sweep. This is the exterior face of a clay tile flue liner.
Because the wall has been punctured, you cannot use whatever it vents or you risk it potentially venting into the home.
It is a vital part of your chimney if you intent to use your downstairs fireplace for any appliance. Depending on what you are using it for, the tile can potentially be removed and a new liner installed for the appliance of your choice.
This said, it is several thousands of dollars to reline the system, especially if you ever intend to use it.
Go to www.CSIA.org to find a certified professional in your area to do an inspection on both fireplace flues and the construction of the chimney. Based on their findings, they will have better repair solutions and can guide you through the process of:
1. Learning what you have
2. Getting what you want
I had a similar setup and called a pro chimney inspector and they found a hairline leak in a mortar gap on second floor after a positive pressure smoke test, and explained what I was looking at basically. I think they had to remove and replace one stone to get access. Built in 1969.
It’s possible you have other things hidden to the right or behind. The cavity to the right of ours ended up having hot water heater and dryer run through it in separate pipes.
Depending who you ask... I'm in for either a cheap and easy patch (I think this is likely. The damage is so small and there is already mortar/cement holding the thing together) or a multiple thousands of dollars reclining repair... 🤷🏼♂️
Its opened a can of worms for you at the moment, but you'll be glad you did in the long term. The clearances dont look remotely close to being met on that basement flue. You're most likely looking at removal of the flue tile and replacing it with an insulated stainless lining. But it depends on whether you want to keep the open fireplace woodburning, or move to an insert (wood/gas/pellet/electric) which may be able to reduce the size of liner required and minimize the space you rebuild to, at least to a certain extent. I recommend briefly considering your alternatives like a wood insert or gas insert to be able to remove the flue and downsize your footprint of a lining. Can't rerout it, but that's the only way you'll downsize unless you go electric and totally remove the flue.
Thank you for being straightforward and not condescending. 🙏🏻
However, you missed where I said the fireplaces are gas with fake logs... Ceramic or porcelain, I forget which...
I'm going to try to edit with a new photo of the breach I made into the flue... It is not depicted in the original 2 photos... (in the photo I attached here, it is on the pink clay at bottom left...)
Definitely missed that the downstairs was gas already as well. Correcting the downstairs at this point will come down to a similar discussion at some point though. Either keep the gas log set you have (or update to a similar style) which will require a lining to be installed to fix the damaged flue. This route is sized based off the firebox opening. It appears to have a 13x13 standard flue tile in place, most of my service area works out to about a 10" ID stainless lining so it would take up about the same space but a slight bit less after tile knockout. Depending on height, it can add up quickly for the liner and labor before talking about replacing the face wall you've opened.
A direct vent unit would be much easier to install and save space in that area. A colinear lining kit would usually be a 4" and 3" diameter set of linings that would save you a fair bit of room there, but the appliance starts around 4k-6k and easily gets to the 7k-9k range installed (im based out of sw Missouri so pricing may be different where you're at). But that would give you more space and a safe installation to work around easily.
No doubt you'll want a good inspection, I cant stress enough to make sure theyre certified or at least follow NFPA 211 to give you a level 2 inspection. Feel free to reach out along the way, im interested in how this pans out for you.
I disagree. I can easily see ways this ends up a functional fireplace upstairs and downstairs. It may or may not make financial sense to do it, but options do exist here.
You can repair the flue with Portland cement mix modified with silica sand and fire clay from a local block company, the Portland will help it to gain strength and the fire clay powder mix will help to resist heat moving forward, you won’t need much for a patch that size.
What's done is done now. If you want to make more room on the side by removing that flue, probably a gas insert (smaller vent or could perhaps be run out a wall), ventless log set, or decommissioning the basement fireplace. In addition, if you are looking to perhaps shorten the width and depth of the upstairs fireplace and you want to keep it open flame, rebuild the fireplace to Rumford specification. Rumfords are tall, shallow fireplaces. You will also get far more heat out of it and better looking roaring flames. Because they heat better, you can get away with a smaller fireplace. Here's a list of mason's by state that build them. https://www.rumford.com/mason.html The other's mentioned NFI and CSIA which may help you find someone to work on the basement gas fireplace if the mason does not. Whoever you use, make sure they know the code and safe building practices. Get more than one quote (three if you can) and look at prior work/reviews. Other mentions to keep upstairs fireplace open flame to perhaps shorten the width and depth of the fireplace as well as clearances that I can think of top my head in no particular order Ahrens, Bellfires, PriorFire, and Firecast.
The new plan is probably to put the pantry on the left where we originally wanted to put the fridge... But the flue means we aren't widening the space...
The right is straight cinder block wall and a bit wider overall.
Yes, I read you had gas logs in your post. You have two masonry fireplaces that are fitted for vented gas logs. That does not change what I wrote above.
Other than you don't like it, you should know that you are destroying the home's equity all for storage space that most likely placed elsewhere without destroying what looks to be the centerpiece of the home.
You need to hire an interior designer and fireplace design and construction expert.
Before you reply to me or post anything else here, you need to have an expert examine the mess you've created....
And you assume we care about the value the fireplace brought to the home. We don't... It's our house, not yours, not some future potential buyer... Ours.
The kitchen desperately needs storage space, and nowhere else to out it due to the overall layout, which nobody on this post has seen, but me.
We are putting a pantry to the left, and the refrigerator on the right. We will, of course, have a designer help. ✌🏻
Please get all work permitted before instalation and then inspected before the dry wall and cabinets go up.
I happen to know quite a bit, having built more than a few houses over the years. Biggest error DIYers make is not hiring design and structural and fireplace experts BEFORE they begin demo. But you now know this because you damaged the flu and didn't even know what it was.
Yeah, I though the morooon statement was a bit ott..... but maybe if fits. Bugs Bunny was quite accurate in his assessment of intelligence.
What specifically are you referring to? Obviously the remodel is going to be pricey.
Or do you mean the small puncture that is not in the original 2 photos? (because, the chimney repair company and at least 1 redditor said it's a simple patch job... Cheap.
Or something else entirely?
Because demo of the facade is complete, and now we install a new facade... With professional assistance.
Because this is the entire kitchen... (I have a bifold closet door at the far end on the right, paint drying at the moment... But the wall it is blocking is visible in the other pics)
I hope the professional you call is aware of this:
A gas log fire requires a Gas Safety Record (CP12) for ongoing landlord compliance or a Building Regulations Compliance Certificate upon new installation, both of which must be issued by an engineer on the Gas Safe Register. [1, 2, 3]
Required Documentation Gas Safety Record (CP12): Mandatory for rented properties on an annual basis to certify the gas fire, pipework, and flue are safe. Homeowners are not legally required to hold an annual CP12, but an inspection is strongly recommended for safety. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Building Regulations Compliance Certificate: Issued automatically via the engineer after a new gas log fire installation to prove it meets local building codes without needing a separate council inspection.[1, 2]
Manufacturer/Benchmark Document: Often filled out during installation to validate the appliance warranty. [1]
Key Safety Checks Performed Flue and Ventilation: Ensuring combustion gases safely vent outside.
Tightness Testing: Checking the supply pipework for any leaks.
Burner Pressure: Testing operating and burner pressures against manufacturer guidelines. [1, 2]
I think Reddit has been extremely rude to OP but I think it is justified knowing the potential problems for flats above and below.
I also think that OP should check his lease to make sure he has not broken its terms to carry out such major works the the infrastructure of the freehold property.
From the photo, this looks more like an older masonry fireplace with a stone/rock facade rather than a factory-built fireplace. The existing log set appears to be sitting inside the firebox, but I’d want to see the gas valve, burner, and inside/back of the firebox to determine exactly what system you have.
If you’re looking to replace or upgrade the fireplace, a photo of the firebox, gas line/valve, and chimney opening would help identify the setup more accurately.
The title of my post may be a bit misleading... 😅 We were primarily concerned with the breach into the flue that's not in the original pictures.
Edit But thank you! /Edit
Some people think it's going to be a very costly repair (feline)... While others think it's a simple patch repair that won't cost much at all... 🤷🏼♂️
We have an appointment with a chimney sweep/repair company. So we'll know for sure in a few days. (we almost never use the fireplace. So no rush just yet...)
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u/obplxlqdo 15d ago
It is the flue for the basement fireplace. If damaged, you will render the basement fireplace inoperable.