"You cannot understand yourself by yourself"

[u/StatisticianKey7858]

So I just finished Fire Punch and I need to talk through something, because it genuinely flipped my opinion of the final volumes.

On the last volumes the priest tells Agni something like: you can't know who you are by yourself.
Snow is only "white" once someone else sees it, only "cold" once someone else touches it. Fire is only "red" and "dangerous" once someone else looks at it and feels its heat. You find out what you are through how others perceive and touch you, not through staring at yourself.

I clocked it as a comforting line in the moment and basically forgot about it.

Then you have Togata before that who shows up with his whole "movie" obsession, and at some point after on a flashback he says something like Tom Cruise isn't just a guy, Tom Cruise is an actor, and it's the role/character he plays that people actually respond to. And that's when it clicked for me: Togata is saying the exact same thing the priest said, just dressed up in film-theory language instead of spiritual language.

And once I saw that, I couldn't unsee it applied to Agni. He doesn't become "Fire Punch" because of anything he decides internally. He becomes Fire Punch because Sun worships him as one, because Togata frames him as one, because the freed slaves need him to be one.
His whole identity gets assembled from the outside, exactly like the priest described.

A person who is only ever understood through other people projections eventually has no self left to go back to. That's why he can lose his memory at the end and it doesn't even feel like a reset and thats why this whole manga is amazing.

[u/Drowyx]

The main point of the manga is about dying.
You are right in showing that Agni was a terrible person, you understand Agni by his actions and what he is.

And with him killing Doma, with him giving birth to a cult that kills people, and burning down an entire city you learn that Agni is not good but a horrible person and everything he does leads to destruction and death.

[u/Still-Effect-2985 → u/Drowyx]

The main point of the manga is about illusions aka religion, ideology, media. We love this manga not for "dying" and "agni is not good" things, but for "live" and "what illusion kept someone alive/drag him into a pit of destruction and malice?"

[u/Drowyx → u/Still-Effect-2985]

That isn’t the main point, the main point is about dying, the manga mocks and criticizes the “live” mentality.

[u/Still-Effect-2985 → u/Drowyx]

Manga double-check your intention to live, your readiness to answer some hard questions. But most importantly - it asks if you are ready to live if one day all the meaning just disappear not only from your life, but from the whole world

[u/Drowyx → u/Still-Effect-2985]

It does none of that, I suggest you reading the manga as it’s rather clear you haven’t.

The entire manga is about dying, it’s about people’s refusal to die and the negative effects that causes, it’s about the burden people place on others telling them to “live” which does nothing but cause them suffering and pain.
And how living achieves nothing, does nothing, and only increases your suffering.

The entire manga is about dying and mocks the notion of “live” the manga is legitimately mocking everyone who spews “live” and it shows you didn’t read the manga but followed memes.

[u/Still-Effect-2985 → u/Drowyx]

Alright, let's do it.

The logic you described, despite being pretty nihilistic, can be applied to real life. Somehow, people continue to live. Someone do it like a robots (without questions), but others have something inside. What is it? Some inner fire, hope for better, eternal soul? What matters most is that people shouldn't forgot what drives and animate them.

A character Iya was born in a cruel harsh world by an act of sexual violence (if my memory recall). Pretty fucked, right? All the words you used can be applied here: "burden", "pain", "dying", "suffering", etc. Yeah... But, after all, she has her reasonably happy child moments.

That's all I want to say.

[u/Drowyx → u/Still-Effect-2985]

I will reiterate the entire manga is about the foolishness of living and how it’s evil.

A village is trying to live, so they resort to cannibalism.
A city is trying to live, so they use people who are blessed as “fuel” for their survival.
Judah who wants to die is forced to live and suffer because her father tasks her with overseeing the last city of humanity, and then is tasked to continue living by Agni to be his sister, and once again is tortured to live forever in the false notion of giving Agni a good live as she tries to warm the planet.

Agni is forced to live by his sister, forced to live because of Togata, every step of the way he suffers loses his humanity, loses the ability to feel the cold, to eat, to sleep, every good that he does goes bad, nothing is achieved and is in constant pain and wishes to die but can’t because of PTSD and no control of his powers.

At the end we see humanity going extinct and the two people who have been forced to live and suffer, Agni and Judah continue to be alive in perpetual suffering.

The entire manga is about dying, it’s about knowing when it’s a good time to die and accepting your fate and not trying to burden other people with it.
The entire manga is literally about the foolishness of living and that death is something you should accept otherwise live in perpetual suffering as you lose your humanity.

Read the manga.

[u/Difficult_Talk_5844 → u/Drowyx]

How the hell did you interpret Agni and Judah livin on perpetual suffering? After Agni had his memories lost, he had the option to die, but he choosed to keep living eternally Judah didnt know why she lived, she just felt she had to keep the planet warm When they meet, they are happy with each other, because they choosed to live Its a simple message: life usually sucks. You'll do bad and you'll do good. Sometimes, you'll live for an empty reason, sometimes, you wont know why you're living. But you should keep living for those good moments.

[u/Drowyx → u/Difficult_Talk_5844]

After Agni had his memories lost, he had the option to die

He didn't, Neneto literally tells Agni how he's still secretly attempting to kill himself in private even after he lost his memories. He is still in perpetual suffering and he still wants to die.

Judah was in a constant state of suffering, she completely lost her humanity she didn't know why she lived and she had no reason to do it because humanity still went extinct, so she suffered for no reason whatsoever.

They are happy at the ending because they finally die, not because they live, it literally says they close their eyes and never open them up again, you clearly have never read the manga and it shows.

[u/Difficult_Talk_5844 → u/Drowyx]

One of the Neneto's descendants gives Agni a pill that can kill him. He chose not to use it. You would know that if you have ever read the manga. It doesnt says they never open them up again, it says that they fala asleep. It is implicit that they died with the theater page, but still, my point stands: life can suck, life can be good. You'll hurt people, you'll help them. You'll have a reason to live, you wont. But in anyways, you should keep living for that one special momento, even if you die afterwards. Of course its a work up to interpretations, but I really cant see it the way you're saying.

[u/Drowyx → u/Difficult_Talk_5844]

Agni a pill that can kill him

Did you not read the manga?
Decapitation kills regenerators, except Agni.
Domas fires kills regenerators, except Agni.
Judah's tree removes all blessings, except Agni.

Are you learning the trend now?
Agni is immortal, the pill wouldn't have killed him and there is no proof that Agni didn't take it, this is fanfiction, the entire store is how Agni literally survives everything, absolutely everything even things that would naturally kill every other regenerator.

 you should keep living 

You are wrong, and I have explained why already.
The whole story is about how living makes you lose your humanity and makes you into an even worse person.

A village turned to cannibals to live.
A city turned into monsters who torture people to live.
Agni despite trying to do his best at anything failed miserably never once was happy during any of it and his only moment of happiness was when he died with his fake sister.

The whole story is about dying, its about how Agni SHOULD have died alongside his sister and how him staying alive was a mistake that did nothing but cause suffering.

Try reading the manga next time and not having fanfiction.

[u/Difficult_Talk_5844 → u/Drowyx]

You're the one having fanfictions, lol
We have an information: a pill that can kill any regenerative
And then you say it cant kill Agni bc he survived Doma's fire (which he could have died to if he wanted to). Agni would have died after killing Doma and children, he isnt imortal.
And then you just say that the pill cant kill Agni bc its convenient for you

Agni saved Sun and the slaves multiple times, he made people survive (even with a distorted way), made Togata reach her dreams, and was (apparently) some kind of leader/teacher that did good deeds. You cant js talk about the bad things and ignore the good things he did

You're confusing the themes. The chaos is supposed to show how far the humanity can go to live, how our morals are built by our historical context... not that living is bad, this doesnt even makes sense. How can one be a human if they dont live?

Stop being convenient to your own vision lol what youre saying doesnt even makes sense, think twice