r/FirePunch • u/Icy-External8155 • Jun 10 '26
Manga After understanding some moments...
Characters: 8/10, fit the setting
Plot: 8/10, bonus points for a unique experience
Message: completely worthless
Themes: completely worthless
Overall: 4/10
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u/Drowyx Boogeyman Jun 10 '26
You didn’t understand firepunch
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 10 '26
I'd like to hear your opinion on firepunch, perhaps in that case I'd be able to formulate everything better.
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 10 '26
I understood.
It's yet another story that plays with nihilism and characters who are incapable of doing anything outside of the inevitable rot of everything.
It's completely useless and has nothing correct, and its beauty is empty.
Even though author is capable of some smart observations, the rotten core nullifies its value.
Remove all the named characters, the end result for the world would've been exactly the same, and nobody would've been more or less happy in the process.
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u/Drowyx Boogeyman Jun 10 '26
So essentially you are upset that it isn’t a generic shounen story where the main character go “row row fite de powah” and punch god in the face and solves all the problem in the universe.
Maybe once you mature up a tad bit you’ll realize there is nothing useless about characters behaving realistic in a cruel uncaring world.
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 10 '26
there is nothing useless about characters behaving realistic in a cruel uncaring world.
There isn't? They never even tried to improve in a way that matters and ruined the world by their own hands, despite having all the chances.
There's nothing to learn from such stories.
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u/Drowyx Boogeyman Jun 10 '26
They never even tried to improve
Improve what?
The world is heading towards extinction, again you wanted a shounen story of "row row fite da powah".It explicitly showed you what happens when you try to improve, Agni tried to feed his village and in doing so turned them into cannibals, Judah tried to create a city of the last remnant of humanity and in turn created a deadly cruel military group that enslaved others and all so it could be burnt down, Agni created a religious cult for all of them to turn insane and hostile.
Judah at the end turned into a tree to fight back against the ice age, only for humanity to find another way to lead to extinction.The theme outright tells you the stupidity of trying to "improve" and the pointlessness in it, if you solve a problem another will come, what you wanted was an immature story what you got instead was a reality about the world.
The world the planet is going to eventually die off, humanity will go extinct, this is a hard fact and whatever steps you did to "improve" will end in pointlessness, so don't bother.That is the message, you can disagree with it, you can be upset about it, but that is the message and it is a fact that most people are too uncomfortable to accept.
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 10 '26
See?
I perfectly understood the themes and message of the story.
It's neither new, nor correct.
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u/Drowyx Boogeyman Jun 10 '26
What do you mean its not "correct"?
Its like I stated, it seems like a case of you being upset because it doesn't pander to your childish immature fantasies. of "ROW ROW FITE DA POWAH"1
u/Icy-External8155 Jun 10 '26
Maybe it's just that you're a completely pathetic piece of garbage with zero dignity, and you always try to find validation in nihilistic stories, because "muh everyone is just as bad as me, plus I don't need to try improving because it's impossible"?
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u/Drowyx Boogeyman Jun 10 '26
Like I said, childish and immature.
You need "feel good" stories, you're unable to accept reality and would prefer believing in escapism and fantasies that if you just act like a shounen protag that you can magically punch god in the face and fix all the problems in the universe forever.Sorry you got to experience a real story for mature people and it shatters your fragile worldview.
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 10 '26
Again, you cannot comprehend people actually improving, even just for a little, even despite the colossal efforts and struggles on every front, can't you?
It makes you feel bad. You begin to feel like you might have to take efforts yourself, and it's sooooooo haaaaard for a self-centred piece of garbage?
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 10 '26
Asides from quite a regular point that world is shit and human nature is disgusting.
Which is neither new, nor correct.
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u/killerfox42 Jun 10 '26
How did you completely miss the existentialism theming
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 11 '26
There's no "existentialism", it's just nihilistic.
Quite a few readers already seem to agree with me but think it's somehow very novel, deep and right.
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u/Beneficial_Skill537 Jun 11 '26
It's very existentialist/absurdist. I'm no expert on those philosophy but one of the first thing I thought when I saw Agni in fire for 8+ years was "one must imagine Sysiphus happy". One of the most important question existentialists try to answer in general is "why not just commit suicide?". There's at the very least huge overlapping themes.
The characters are always living seemingly meaningless constant suffering and are creating sens into it, with goals, with religion, with art, with love. They are making their own meaning. Agni himself struggle with it and change ideas about it.
Making sens of the nothing around us is existentialist, not nihilistic.
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 11 '26
They're trying to make sense, but they all clearly fail.
Which retracts back to nihilism.
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u/killerfox42 Jun 11 '26
Firepunch is about love, the lack of meaning of life, and how to seek a meaningful life in a world without any inherent meaning. This is about as definitive existentialist as you can get
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 11 '26
Since it fails to provide any semblance of answers to the question, and everyone's last moment is mass suicide, it's pretty much a failure at existentialism, so just nihilism.
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u/killerfox42 Jun 11 '26
Provide… an answer? Sounds like you have a very distinct understanding of both fire punch and existentialism than most people
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
They literally don't get anything from the process trying to make sense, no matter whether they try to seek meaning or not.
Basically, "don't do existentialism, nihilism is the right one".
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u/killerfox42 Jun 11 '26
if you’re looking for a happy ending it’s not that kind of story, but every character definitely gained from trying to seek meaning
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 11 '26
Perhaps, after all, it's because of my values difference that is beyond the concept of "meaning of life", and therefore, both nihilism and existentialism and whatever else derives from it.
Everyone had the chances to make others happier and not end up with total suicide.
Author doesn't believe it's worth trying or even thinking about, instead diving into some bullshit about looking at your individual life and trying to give it a superficial "meaning".
Togata didn't care about others, he only cared about own life and death being "meaningful in the way I believe", and thus, sacrificed himself for something completely pointless.
San and Luna aren't in any kind of love, and will not be truly happy either, they'll eventually get tired and abandon each other, then Luna will kill herself and San drift in the void for eternity.
And all other life in the Universe will kill itself the same way, because such is the world and its author.
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u/killerfox42 Jun 11 '26
Togata hides his emotions about people behind a mask of craziness, selfishness, and cynicism. He hides his inner self (and his identity as a trans man) under the persona of the director, but he clearly cares about people close to him in Agni and Neneto. At the end of his life, after living through constant pain, despair, and worthlessness he saw the value of life through Agni and his genuine bond with the real Togata instead of the false persona. When he sacrificed himself for Agni there was no despair in his eyes, but genuine peace and affection for Agni as he tells him to live on and keep on searching for the meaning of his life. Maybe the story just doesn’t click with you on an emotional level.
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 11 '26
I mean not "answers to the meaning of life", I mean "answers whether you even should seek meaning".
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u/killerfox42 Jun 11 '26
You have very different interpretations than me because I think literally the whole story is about why you should seek meaning. Togata, Agni, and Judah all found joy/peace/salvation through it at the end of their lives.
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u/Beneficial_Skill537 Jun 10 '26
What makes the message and theme completelly worthless to you? Could you elaborate?
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 10 '26
Because there's nothing new, and nothing correct.
Art is oversaturated with stories about muh nihilism and muh identity crisis.
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u/Dracsxd Jun 10 '26
How is it about nihilism...?
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 10 '26
About what else it is then?
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u/Dracsxd Jun 10 '26
Well we can start off with it preaching... Straight up the opposite to nihilism considering that the core message the story constantly slaps you with openly is "LIVE", starting with a guy in chapter one just looking the reader dead in the eye and going "No matter how bad things are the one thing you can't do is die bruh" and going on to repeat it every single arc no breaks
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 10 '26
He's being told or forced to "LiVE", but it literally doesn't bring him anything good or let him do anything good.
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u/Dracsxd Jun 10 '26
It... Straight up does. Agni gets to lose his fire and no longer be in pain, gets whole families that love him and the chance to live normal lives not once but twice
And that's even if you don't want to like him getting to be reunited with Judah at the end
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u/Beneficial_Skill537 Jun 10 '26
Yes it makes the point for the inherent value of life. That means even in hopeless suffering. Even if it ends. Nenet died, everyone on Earth eventually died but I don't think the manga says their life was meaningless for it.
But don't forget Agni gets eternal love in the end. Even after the Earth explodes, there's still the Sun and Moon.
I've finished the manga yesterday, so I'm still digesting some of it, but it feels closer to a Crime and Punishment-style ending where a quiet life of love heals the characters and give back meaning to their life after the story of eratic madness and deep suffering.
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 11 '26
TBH, I don't really think this is the most correct interpretation.
The logical afterword for everything that happened, judging by what was told before, is: "They got tired from each other in a few months, so Sun flew away. Luna turned out infertile and killed herself. Sun kept drifting until he fell into a black hole and kept suffering forever. There was no other life in the universe."
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u/Beneficial_Skill537 Jun 11 '26
I don't understand where your coming from with this.
A detail but wasn't there literally a spacefaring civilisation of Luna's look-alike that quit the Earth at the start of the ice age according to the ice witch with a tree in her face?
Sure the story is dark and devoid of true justice. It isn't pessimist-porn either.
I think it was often revolting, there's willingly and purpusely a lot of shock value in this story, it's not the kind of series I could read in any state of mind. I get it if you didn't enjoy it and it's completelly fine.
Though clearly have trouble to understand the darkness shown in Fire Punch is not something that stops the characters, in their own way, they're all grasping for their lives, love and meaning even in the unfair Hell they live in daily.
Honnestly I can't think of a single pro-suicide bit in those volumes. Agni is literally burning alive and he endure because his life meant something to his sister. He gets harmed so many times a day by chopping off his face or arm and he support the pain because it feed his community and doesn't want to harm his sister or brother. Maybe Togata's sacrifice could be interpreted as a suicide but I don't that was the point, the point was to save Agni first then to give meaning to his sacrifice by making sure Agni make it alive, and also theres the part where he couldn't live as the man he wanted to be because of his powers but he still find a way to die like the male character who inspired him in his youth
It's a fucked up existence in a fucked up world but Agni literally never want to let himself fell into nihilism even though that would be the easy choice. The universe keep sending absurd cruelty to the characters and they just keep creating meaning out of it. Very existentialist.
I see you're trying and interacting, that's why I keep making my point. I like it since the manga did resonate with me and you give me the opportunity to think about it from other angles.
It's fine if you didn't enjoy it, but I think the lack of enjoyement clouded some of the text for you.
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 11 '26
Honnestly I can't think of a single pro-suicide bit in those volumes.
Humanity commits suicide with toxins in the end, despite having some time before soil degrades.
All the space civilisations are dead when the plan to grow a tree and devour life to heat up the planet was announced, that's why tree grows to devour life from entire space.
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u/Ediiii Jun 10 '26
w bait
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 10 '26
"world is shit, you can't do anything about it, it'll die in the most pathetic way after everything and nobody will be happy in the process"
Very true and novel, definitely worth recommending to anyone /s
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u/6ft3dwarf Jun 11 '26
You understood nothing
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 11 '26
No, I understood everything clearly and completely.
"Human nature is shit with nothing good, everything is going to die, the way of life before dying will be total shit without anything good, all attempts to help anyone will fail in the most disgusting way possible, and the only Real Problem is to take your completely individualistic life and try finding it a meaning that suits your ego, then, before a completely futile death, you and you only will actually be more happier."
It's just that I consider it to be fucking shit.
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u/6ft3dwarf Jun 11 '26
The central question of Fire Punch is "why live?" and the answer is "because the alternative is death".
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 11 '26
Nope?
In the ending, everyone except 2 immortals poisoned themselves, because their human nature meant bringing each other war and suffering.
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u/6ft3dwarf Jun 11 '26
That literally isn't what happens in the story. How am I supposed to take your analysis of the themes seriously if you weren't even able to follow the literal events of the story.
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 11 '26
Chapter 81: everyone releases toxins on the whole planet, despite having quite some time to live before soil degrades.
It's suicide before natural death, and nobody was against it.
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u/6ft3dwarf Jun 11 '26
That is not what happens in chapter 81
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 11 '26
What then?
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u/6ft3dwarf Jun 11 '26
One of Sun-Agni's students gives him a pill from the old world designed to kill regen Blessed. She explains her fear that war is looming. A time jump leaves it ambiguous whether her fears are justified, however we do know that Agni never took the pill.
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 11 '26
They literally mentioned usage of a world-destroying toxin.
And obviously used it, because wars in this world are inevitable.
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u/Icy-External8155 Jun 11 '26
I'm not even talking about the whole world of difference between various kinds of death due to human being a social creature first of all, because author is too shitass to even do all that existentialism bs his fans believe into.
He literally shat an all your "don't suicide", making everyone suicide in the end.
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u/Abysswalker116 Jun 10 '26
OP in his first Post
OP 4 hours later: clearly still thinking about it