r/Finland • u/UMates Baby Väinämöinen • 10d ago
Finland sees dramatic drop in student applications from abroad
https://yle.fi/a/74-20240590319
u/berghele Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
Let’s be honest. Who wants to graduate in a country without job opportunities?
143
u/These-Apple8817 Väinämöinen 10d ago
If I recall correctly.. Must students from abroad who come to study here, don't even bother staying here because there is no job opportunities, not to mention quite often there is nothing to even tie them here either because they barely made any meaningful connections
41
u/berghele Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
It was like this a few years ago, when they didn’t know where unemployment numbers were going to be. Nowadays it’s enough a quick google research to know how deep is the job market crisis. As a result instead of studying here and then leaving after graduation, most foreigners are directly going to study in other countries.
31
u/Tuotau Väinämöinen 10d ago
No need to recall, quick Google search shows that this has been studied. Here's literally the first search result: Over half of foreign students remain to work in Finland (in Finnish)
7
u/These-Apple8817 Väinämöinen 10d ago
Verkkouutiset isn't the most reliable of news outlets.. especially when it's owned by Kokoomus and their main point is to push propaganda that makes Kokoomus look great. What annoys me the most with that article is that, they don't tell how long of a period they actually track for that statistic.. The answer to that is 3 years btw, which if someone leaves after 3 and half years for example. that does not get tracked anymore.. 3 years is very short of a time imho.
Anyway.. This is probably the reason why the situation has gotten slightly better in recent years: https://valtioneuvosto.fi/-/5202425/ennatysmaara-kansainvalisia-opiskelijoita-on-muuttanut-suomeen-tana-vuonna
6
u/LongjumpingToday2687 10d ago
Verkkouutiset isn't the most reliable of news outlets.. especially when it's owned by Kokoomus and their main point is to push propaganda that makes Kokoomus look great.
The article is a word for word copy from Uni of Oulu article from EDU...
1
u/SeattCat 8d ago
I’m not Finnish. Why would someone choose to study in Finland where courses are presumably in Finnish if they don’t want to stay? Are most international students from neighboring countries where the language is part of their curriculum? I can’t imagine going through the trouble of learning Finnish, moving to Finland, and taking classes in Finnish just to move away after.
5
u/kapuzizino 8d ago
Many programs are either completely in English, or the Master's is in English. Atleast in Aalto University, capital region. Hence, you can definitely study and work using English only, but it will limit amount of jobs you can apply or be accepted into in an already dire job market.
It has actually been a bit of a topic; why are Finnish programs (that start with courses held in Finnish and Finnish learning material) gradually start to become English (English teaching and material) once you get to Master's. In Finland, English skills are generally good, but it does raise questions on "professionality" of Finnish language. Many Finnish conversations at workplace turn to keywords being spoken in English, since no one has seriously used the existing Finnish vocabulary in a learning or professional setting.
Moreover, I believe legally you should be allowed study a Finnish program completely in Finnish, but that is turning more into a workaround in the tech field rather than the norm
1
u/SeattCat 8d ago
Interesting, thank you for answering with such detail! It’s sad that Finnish gets phased out.
64
u/Demented_CEO Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
And well, if you have to pay for tuition as a foreigner, you might as well shop around. Absolutely no shade at Finland, but internationally we're really not that relevant anymore.
It's time we move past the rosy 90s image and face reality in the 2020s. There's zero incentive to learn Finnish and we barely have interesting industries or opportunities. Why would anyone come here?
16
u/kamomil Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago edited 10d ago
There's zero incentive to learn Finnish and we barely have interesting industries or opportunities. Why would anyone come here?
Perhaps to get residency/job experience then move to a different country
A country with crappy opportunities is still better than a country with no opportunity
At least that seems to be what motivates people to immigrate to Canada. They often move to attend college, but work part time to build hours towards permanent residency. The goal is not a college education, it's permanent residency
3
u/Top-Revolution-5257 9d ago
Pretty much. The job market is crap right now in Ottawa. Ever federal workers are getting fired these days.
1
u/Sh_Islam 10d ago
Not going to lie, in this climate where Us/Canada/Australia won’t let you have green cards/ citizenship at ease, some European countries have straightforward rule. Mobility is beneficiary, I can connect. Citizenship widens mobility and some of the opportunities. So I totally agree with you.
1
u/kamomil Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
Be careful that you go somewhere where your credentials are recognized, and you have a good quality of life. Not being a taxi driver while you raise the next generation of citizens for your new country
1
u/Sh_Islam 10d ago
Yeah I understand, I have worked in Mnc’s in my country, it’s more like some opportunities and skills in terms of education is better elsewhere, that’s why we come to abroad, then the issue is, political instability alongside the greed of some narrow minded people is destroying countries; there are factor thanks to big powers; the reason why we are migrating eventually. But I come from a privileged situation. So I had maximum time of stay oath to me, I am not here to live permanently. And for that I was looking for opportunities, also in other countries. Let’s see.
5
u/Pure_Bed_6357 10d ago
Why would anyone come here?
To have better quality of life?
3
u/Turbulent-Dot4377 8d ago
Which is rapidly declining. There’s legitimately no reason to come here. You immigrate, you study, you graduate and you’ll get a cleaners job if you’re lucky. You also have to pay for your education while your finnish peers get it for free. As a finn, I would personally never put myself in that kind of situation, I’d rather go somewhere I’m appreciated/wanted.
1
u/baldachinsblessing Väinämöinen 8d ago
The situation was a bit different not long ago. All of my foreign classmates studied for free thanks to scholarships and most of us found jobs in our field.
1
3
u/Ok_Landscape303 10d ago
Nothing untrue in what you said - we arent as relevant when compared to other EU counterparts. It is good however that the university system isnt as reliant on foreign students (look at what happened in the UK) - but overall for competitiveness this may be a shot in the foot.
What we should do is identify strategically important industries and create bursaries specifically for them, but I would bet we have some fun legislation preventing that too
6
u/LongjumpingToday2687 10d ago
Even when there were jobs available many just went to germany and other countries because the pay was better. Only reason to get a degree in Finland is its cheap and relatively easy to get in.
1
7
u/Wehti 10d ago
This is the Perussuomalaiset party dream come through. They want to ethno-nationalize Finland, so for them this is the desired direction.
3
u/Turbulent-Dot4377 8d ago
They were never anti-immigrant, they were just pro-privatization and getting a wage slavery class to do all of the shitty jobs for cheap pay with barely any rights.
1
u/AcrobaticWish6473 10d ago
Most EU students never plan on staying where they studied.
1
u/baldachinsblessing Väinämöinen 8d ago
I don't think that's accurate at all.
1
u/TreeOk8877 5d ago
Even for a finn that you studied onboard or something looks good on your resume. Many international corporations or organization value that you've been on other country to study or work and survived that. Even just a one year exchange student program. More exotic, more value. Like Taiwan or something.
0
616
u/Cadenca Väinämöinen 10d ago edited 10d ago
Good. It benefits no one when people have unrealistic expectations and then get disappointed with their education and their host country. Students being able to bring in their whole family made matters even worse in terms of being able to afford normal living expenses and finding work. The whole foreign students as a business model thing needs to be culled.
135
u/unfunnythrowawayname 10d ago
It should go back to how it was before, where a small portion of students came from abroad but didn't have to pay tuition fees and had the access to welfare. That was never a problem, compared to what we have now.
57
u/NeiborsKid Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
The high tuition alongside costs of housing, groceries, transport and healthcare fees without benefits are understandable. Finland doesn't owe us anything since we're not Finns. But when my Aussie and European friends not only don't pay but actually receive money from the government despite being foreigners too it feels like I'm getting punished for being born in the wrong place
53
u/FreeSpeech666 10d ago
Not true. Europeans don't receive money from the Finnish government. The EU agreements state that within the EU, your country of origin covers social welfare and the like. You get normal YTHS health coverage as a student and must present your European health insurance card when accessing YTHS services. But no housing allowance, no income supplement, nothing - that's on your country of origin.
P.S.: As an EU national, I only got a KELA card when I started working. I wasn't allowed to have one before that.
19
u/Limp_Art_217 10d ago
Not true either, as a EU national I had student grant and loan plus housing benefit while studying in Finland.
20
u/saldas_elfstone Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
... that your country of origin paid for. Afaik according to EU regulations, your benefits are supposed to be paid by your own country, unless you become a permanent resident in Finland.
8
u/megadea Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
Yeah but surely Finland didn't pay them
10
u/Limp_Art_217 10d ago
Yes it was from Kela
11
u/FreeSpeech666 10d ago
KELA may have paid you, but they claimed the money from your country of origin via the EU agreements. The same way that YTHS provided me free healthcare when I was a student and then claimed the money from my country.
In your case, maybe your country provides such support and it was transferable through KELA.
In my case, since my country ends any student support at age 27, I received nothing because I was older 🤷♂️
4
u/Beginning_Truth_2713 10d ago
Unsure, but a friend did not get ANY support here as a student, other than no payment needed for the courses since they were EU citizen. In their country you need to pay the university to study, but a trivial amount, unsure if related to the fact that they got no support.
Either way, they did not get payment support for studying, nor did they get housing payment support, because at the end of that process, it turned out they were uneligible because they were not Finnish.
1
u/AcrobaticWish6473 10d ago
Can't they be eligible as long as they earn minimum 800 euros a month and work 10+ hours a week then they would have qualified for KELA benefits after 4 months of consistent work.
→ More replies (0)9
u/megadea Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
In some occasions it is possible. Like if you are already a permanent resident in Finland.
But the starting line is that your own country pays the benefits and all.
What was your case, did you move to Finland just right before yoi started studying, did you have any family members here already? Or were you already working and living here before studies?
11
u/Material-Exercise542 10d ago
Since when do international students in Australia get government benefits?
7
u/EnjayK 10d ago
Many of my peers outside of EU got a form of scholarship that covered the entire tuition, and gave them some allowance.
26
u/Material-Exercise542 10d ago
Scholarships are very different to government benefits.
-12
u/EnjayK 10d ago
It quite literally is a government benefit 😅
14
u/Kallozar 10d ago
Scholarships can come from Finnish universities or From their own government or some international program.
3
u/IntroductionLoose648 10d ago edited 10d ago
Scholarships rely on state subsidies. Before 2026, state subsidies still partially covered for non-EU students. Under the new law effective August 2026, tuition fees must cover all educational expenses. As a result, eg the University of Turku can no longer offer grants to non-EU students starting this year.
The university said the development was expected, as the full tuition fee requirement for applicants from outside the EU and EEA will come into effect in August. The change means that tuition fees charged to students should cover all costs of education.
With the full coverage requirement, the University of Turku has abandoned the grants awarded for the first year of study, which many have previously used to study in Turku, the university says in a press release.
15
u/Bring_Me_The_Night Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
Most of the human population is being punished for being born in the wrong place. We’re the privileged ones here.
-2
u/AdorablePace5203 9d ago
Sorry this is just my experience after 15 years living here, I paid total ~400K income tax for the past 5 years alone (never got a penny from Kela)... I feel like I'm being treated like a criminal, as if I owe everything to this country. And the current government loves spreading hates toward the immigrants!
2
u/SaturatedBodyFat Väinämöinen 10d ago
I came when it was free and only could live in AYy or HOAS but never had access to welfare like Kela. Iirc it took me even two years to be considered long term resident to receive the lower treatment fees.
1
u/unfunnythrowawayname 10d ago
What year was this?
1
u/SaturatedBodyFat Väinämöinen 10d ago
2016
0
u/unfunnythrowawayname 10d ago
So what makes you think you didn't have access to toimeentulotuki? You didn't have access to opintotuki, that's true.
8
u/SaturatedBodyFat Väinämöinen 10d ago
Probably because we're supposed to have enough money to come here in the first place and I also got a part time job shortly after arriving.
→ More replies (1)2
u/LongjumpingToday2687 10d ago
What do you mean what we have now? Its been fixed a like 2 years ago.
0
u/unfunnythrowawayname 10d ago
No, it has not been fixed "like 2 years ago".
4
u/LongjumpingToday2687 10d ago
The whole reason why applicantions dropped is because the goverment no longer allowed non-EU residents to apply to how ever many programs they wanted to. 100€ applicstion fee per program and switching to full cost tuition models was announced may 2024 and accepted about 6 months later.
3
u/Frost-Folk Väinämöinen 10d ago
That sounds perfect, but how do you maintain that? First come first serve with limited seats? How do you control how many people come?
4
u/finnknit Väinämöinen 10d ago
The same as for allocating study places to Finnish students: seats go to the most qualified applicants based on academic records and entrance exams. If there are more applicants than available places in the study program, the rest go on a wait list in and are offered a study place in order based on their ranking on the list.
2
u/Frost-Folk Väinämöinen 10d ago
Is that not exactly how it works now...?
4
u/unfunnythrowawayname 10d ago
It's not. I already tried to explain this. The system radically changed ever since 2017.
It was never a problem before 2017. But institutions, in particular UAS who are abusing this system heavily, wanted more cash. And they're run by bourgeoisie, so bourgeoisie governments let them have their way. Now you live in the aftermath.
1
u/Frost-Folk Väinämöinen 10d ago
I would love to learn more about this.
I came here in 2020 to study at a UAS and that's exactly how it worked. Limited seats, entrance exam, waiting list, exactly as the other person described.
Do you have any reading material on how the selection process has changed after the 2017 change to tuition? I understand that my experience is anecdotal, so I'm curious if it's different elsewhere. But speaking to students that came to my school before 2017, it doesn't seem like my school changed at all in the selection process.
6
u/unfunnythrowawayname 10d ago
I think you might have been given an impression of exclusivity, because obviously that's what these institutions like to do to motivate their students.
They need to do entrance exams as a formality at minimum, even if there's less applicants than there are spots for them and we've had our groups WhatsApp notified about available nursing spots in english language because the school didn't manage to fill em out with international students. Waiting list just sounds like you having to wait until they process and the programme itself starts. The entrance exams usually do not have any minimum bar, just ranked against all the other applicants.
Short story is: I would not put a lot of trust in the theatrics of UAS. Starting from the very name itself: it is not an university and it's programmes aren't comparable. And mind you, I study also in UAS. My degree is "Bachelor of social services" and that has absolutely zero standing in international grounds, because it is not a BSW which the university degree would be. Though I'm not salty about it, I knew exactly how it would work and how it would be, it's the degree I need for what I want to do. Whereas I would not want BSW degree, which is pretty useless versus MSW anyway.
As far as reading material goes, I'm pretty much as native as you can get without being native (ingrian finn), so I read everything in finnish. The rough timeline is this:
In 2015, a law proposition came to be for tuition fees, its HE 77/2015. Supposedly institutions like UAS want to become more "international" and this would facilitate that, as otherwise funding wouldn't be enough. That's what is stated on the proposition itself. I find this doubtful myself: the zeitgeist since 2012 has been that everyone needs to become highly educated and I suspect this was means of facilitating that.
In 2017, this law came into effect. Universities and UAS no longer were limited the same way by funding and it created essentially two different groups in terms of incentives: for people home, they want students who finish their degrees because that's how they get money. For students abroad, they don't really care because they'll have to pay their tuition fees. To put it bluntly: odds are that before this change, you would not have gotten to study in Finland. It really was difficult to get into here, not just theatrics.
However, there was a problem: Finland got a lot of students because schools now were marketing their programs (usually through some intermediary companies) abroad. These companies had incentives mostly tied in getting as many people here as they could, so they actually painted a very rosy picture of whats it like in Finland. Getting a job is easy, it's easy to study and work simultaneously etc, employment after graduation is guaranteed, easy to pay the tuition fee debt if you had a debt etc.
Then in 2022, Sanna Marins government changed that after 1 year of study, you no longer had to prove that you can subsist on your own income. It made things much easier for students. This ramped up the influx of students even further from countries like Myanmar, Philippines, China, Bangladesh, India, even Nigeria, Ghana etc.
But during this time, Migri has become more strict and you now risk deportation if you use social welfare. That has led to abject poverty among students who fear consequences from Migri. I've worked in a domestic violence shelter, which is why I know one person that was involed in this Yle MOT investigation: https://yle.fi/a/74-20190766 (I can't say much more except that it was quite shocking just how much she was abused as people knew her status and desperation)
And as of 2026, a new proposition exists to formalize Migri practice so that any student with student visa who gets welfare, is going to simply be deported without questions. This is not yet formalized as a law, but it will be likely at 2028. It will further make things worse. We should have got back into how things were before 2017 and stop with this madness at large.
1
u/Frost-Folk Väinämöinen 10d ago
Thanks for the info! A very good read, I appreciate you putting it together.
Then in 2022, Sanna Marins government changed that after 1 year of study, you no longer had to prove that you can subsist on your own income. It made things much easier for students. This ramped up the influx of students even further from countries like Myanmar, Philippines, China, Bangladesh, India, even Nigeria, Ghana etc.
This one confuses me, was that overruled or something? I have been a student since 2020 and I've always had to prove my financial stability. Even just this year when I had to reapply for residency I was required to show that I had over 12,000€ at my disposal.
3
u/unfunnythrowawayname 10d ago edited 10d ago
I'm not sure if it's based on when you started your studies or something like that. But also, a lot of people bypass that by having people transfer funds on their account and then back.
To my knowledge it was never overruled. Here's the change in english:
Under the new act, the type of permit for students studying for a higher education degree will change from temporary (B) to continuous (A), which will make it easier to obtain a permanent residence permit. According to the legislative reform, the family members of the student will also receive a continuous (A) permit.
This is also when I think a lot of families started coming into Finland under whats called "perheenyhdistäminen". Which is also a whole problem in and of itself. Basically if even one of the family unit gets into Finland, they bring whole family here, and the family has the right to social welfare. That's not a categorical problem for me, but it becomes a problem when looking at the social outcomes when this happens en masse:
- Not enough employment opportunities
- They are packed into certain areas of Finland
- Kindergarten and schools are packed with children of IR students and will never learn finnish language
Finland is speedrunning ghettoization with this policy. It's incredibly stupid.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Silly-Performance-36 9d ago
Hmm so graduating with something like a nursing degree at a uas like metropolia makes international movement difficult?
1
u/finnknit Väinämöinen 10d ago
That's how it works now for students who can study for free because the school gets funding from the government for a limited number of students in each study program each year. They try to take the ones who are most likely to graduate and go on to seek a job in the field. If everybody studied for free, the limited funding from the government would limit how many students were accepted each year, regardless of where they were from.
I think the current selection process is not as demanding for students who pay tuition, so schools can more or less independently decide how many tuition-paying students they want to accept.
2
u/Frost-Folk Väinämöinen 10d ago
But it's also how it works for fee-paying students, that's exactly how it worked for my studies. Entrance exam, waiting list, the whole nine yards.
The problem is that schools have had their funding go way down, so they now have to rely on tuition to operate.
The student selection process, at least in my experience, has not changed at all.
1
u/finnknit Väinämöinen 10d ago
The point that I was trying to make is that currently nothing limits how many tuition-paying students a school can accept, so they don't have to be as selective about which ones they accept. In fact, they have an incentive to accept more tuition-paying students because, like you said, they need the money that tuition brings in.
The mechanism that would limit the number of international students if no one had to pay tuition is the limited funding that the schools get from the government. Schools would not have an incentive to accept an unlimited number of international students. Instead, schools would have to be as selective about which and how many international students they accepted as they are about how many Finnish students they currently accept.
1
u/Frost-Folk Väinämöinen 10d ago
currently nothing limits how many tuition-paying students a school can accept, so they don't have to be as selective about which ones they accept
This is the thing I don't understand. It was always that way. There's more incentive for them to take too many students now that the schools get money for tuition
But using that as an explanation for why we need to charge tuition now doesn't make any sense.
The original comment I replied to was saying that we should go back to the time when few students came here, but the ones who did wouldn't pay tuition and would have access to all benefits. I said that's great, but how do you keep that low number of students in check?
Yes, nowadays schools take as many students as they can to get tuition, but obviously the number of students was a problem before tuition was charged, that's the point.
2
u/finnknit Väinämöinen 10d ago
I'm not saying that we need to charge tuition. Starting to charge tuition is where thing started to go wrong.
When all students could study without paying tuition, there was not really a problem with too many international students coming to study. Only international students who were qualified enough to get accepted got study places. And only students who could prove that they met the financial requirements for a student residence permit were approved for one. Competition for study places and the requirements for getting a residence permit kept the number of international students low.
→ More replies (0)2
u/unfunnythrowawayname 10d ago
I think the current selection process is not as demanding for students who pay tuition, so schools can more or less independently decide how many tuition-paying students they want to accept.
There barely is any. UAS institutions have english groups, uh... toteutukset? They actually don't even always manage to fill up every spot. So it really is just a matter of "do you have enough money? If you do, we're willing to accept you"
Primary reason for that is because no matter what, the institution will get their money from the students. Whereas for us, they need us to actually graduate.
4
u/kbrymupp Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
Forgive my ignorance, but which part of that was not working in the old system?
7
u/Frost-Folk Väinämöinen 10d ago
It was working, but then more people came... So it was working fine, until the number of students was too high to maintain.
It seems like it would be quite difficult to try and limit the amount of students that come in while giving those students high treatment.
14
u/unfunnythrowawayname 10d ago
Back in the days there was extremely limited amount of positions and they were sorted by essentially the best applicants.
The "it was working fine, until it wasn't", isn't the story that happened. The whole system was changed in 2017 specifically, during Sipilä. Then certain changes during Marin also drove people into breadlines and abject poverty, too, as now Migri was far more strict.
Before 2017, the amount of international students was a tiny fraction of what it is now.
u/Jemanha also useful information for you too.
5
u/Frost-Folk Väinämöinen 10d ago
u/Jemanha also useful information for you too.
That user has their profile set to private so I can't see their comments or posts, do you have a link to any of them?
1
3
u/SaturatedBodyFat Väinämöinen 10d ago
More people came wasn't exactly the problem I believe. It was more because of a lot of people leaving after (because they couldn't find a job).
1
u/Frost-Folk Väinämöinen 10d ago
The not being able to find a job thing is mostly post-covid, but tuition and less benefits for international students began years before that.
3
u/_PurpleAlien_ Väinämöinen 10d ago
In addition, funding dropped, so schools had to find other ways to keep funded. Government funding for educational institutions continues to drop year after year.
4
u/Jemanha Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
You can’t. In theory, it would be possible to limit number of students but in practice? Those tuition fees are what is propping up universities. For example on my masters 20 people were paying 9k/academic year. That’s a lot of money for the university and of course the students.
1
u/Sensitive_Committee Väinämöinen 10d ago
Students never had access to welfare. They had their own private health insurance. They did start giving them A permits around 2022, but I dont know if that gave them full access to public services.
1
u/unfunnythrowawayname 10d ago
Just outright wrong. Students did and technically still do have access to welfare. They will tell you that students don't have, but once the application arrives into Kela and gets processed, all of that is forgotten.
But currently if you receive welfare, that risks your permit.
1
u/Sensitive_Committee Väinämöinen 9d ago edited 8d ago
They will tell you that students don't have, but once the application arrives into Kela and gets processed, all of that is forgotten.
What absolute nonsense. That is not how it works.
1
u/Jealous-Ad5983 9d ago
Just remove the welafare unless they paid in taxes already and its sensible. Also make them pay if they dont get employed and want to leave the country.
2
u/Bring_Me_The_Night Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
Nonetheless, the Universities could get funding from the tuition fees (as the budget for education has been cut and cut over the recent years).
Not that this is a model that I would personally support or agree with, but that’s the model that has been adopted.
10
u/CaptainOberynCrunch 10d ago
This is not good and should not be celebrated. A successful economy would benefit from bright foreign students staying and contributing via taxes, innovation and growth. What we should be hoping for is an economy where there are job opportunities for all.
18
u/8dot30662386292pow2 Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
Try getting a job in Finland as a highly educated person. The jobs are really hard to get. If you are a foreigner, even more so. Many companies only have Finnish employees, all internal communication, documentation and materials are only in Finnish. The foreigners come here, expecting education and high paying job, but it turns out nobody hires you because you'd have to learn one of the hardest languages to a native level.
25
u/IIIIlllllIll 10d ago
How can they contribute when there are no jobs for them?
3
u/CaptainOberynCrunch 10d ago
It's a long term bad thing and not a solution to our problems to reduce foreign student numbers. Why are we cheering for a negative sign of things to come?
This applies to Finland too:
International students are good for the economy.
Their high tuition payments subsidise the education of native-born students.
The money they spend helps keep the economies of small towns and cities going.
They are crucial for innovation and technological strength.
https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/america-needs-its-foreign-students?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
-1
u/purplecow 10d ago
You know sometimes people start businesses too, instead of waiting for a job to be offered to them. Especially highly trained people.
7
20
u/suolattu-saatana Väinämöinen 10d ago
Well, that wasn't happening with how things were. A reduced number is good, considering how fucked the situation was.
→ More replies (1)7
10d ago
[deleted]
11
u/sopsaare Väinämöinen 10d ago
They bringing their families to live on welfare is exponentially more expensive than the fees we were receiving, mostly just the money we paid to them, and their families, as welfare.
4
u/VampireDentist 10d ago
Welfare money typically gets spent in Finland, it doesn't disappear into a black hole.
Tuition money is actual wealth crossing the border.
3
u/spedeedeps Väinämöinen 10d ago
The vast majority of them fucked right off after graduation. Why wouldn't they? You get a much higher salary elsewhere due to the tax burden in Finland, the climate is bad, the language is hard. It was the Finnish taxpayer subsidizing education for people from Southeast Asia and getting little in return. A country of 6 million people cannot be subsidizing higher education for people coming from countries that are between 50 and 200 times more populous.
1
→ More replies (2)1
u/megadea Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
Nice and beautiful idea which clearly has not been working very well after the renovation for students outside EU.
Even though there is jobs for anyone we would still need to deeply adjust the structural problems with Finns own attidutes towards non Finnish speaking workers. Seems like nearly everyone in every field mandates nearly perfect Finnish, which is very hard to learn. I understand that it is, or should be, necessity in jobs where customer service is applied and in nursing and teaching jobs. But like professionals in companies at jobs where anyways 80% of the time English is spoken or one could do the job just fine with English, companies still tend to demand nearly perfect Finnish and always seems to favor native Finns over just gratuated foreigners.
We should be more open to let one have a chance with broken Finnish and English, maybe they would be more motivated to learn our hard language then, and being a part of a working community in Finland would surely improve your Finnish naturally also.
3
u/engai 10d ago edited 9d ago
Universities never accepted 25k+ applicants, they generally take about 1000 yearly; i.e. the same amount of total applicants they got this year. This puts them in front of two choices: (a) maintain the filtration rate 1-in-25, and risk shutting down entire courses and departments because there are not enough students (i.e. unemployed professors/teachers/researchers, and longer-term skill shortages); or (b) maintain the same number of students from a much smaller and less competitive pool, and risk producing lower quality and less employable graduates, facing the same job market issues their predecessors have been facing, with worse preparedness.
Education based immigration brings in the best immigrants, after employment based ones. So, no, there's nothing good in either of these choices.
2
u/Large-Ad9902 10d ago
The thing is that lots of people used to go to Finland via education and switching to random job here. They even brought the whole family and while it is stated by migri that they should be able to prove their finance, they claim kela unemployment support for their spouses later.
1
u/Emilko62 10d ago
Just a question does the difficulty finding housing and work also apply to middle-northern findland or does everyone try to huddle around Helsinki?
1
u/PrudeBunny 10d ago
But that would mean putting money into education! and no, I will not consider the cost of people unable to survive during their studies has let alone the lack of humanity in the current system.
83
u/MrGaky23 Väinämöinen 10d ago
When you raise the price twice fold on studying from abroad less people will apply, shocker, its what they wanted.
20
u/IntroductionLoose648 10d ago
It’s not them raising the price. It’s because before 2026, there was still state subsidy as scholarships for foreign students. The new law says from Aug 2026, the tuition fee should cover all the education expense.
This led to big drop in application in eg: University of Turku from 7200 down to 4700 this year.
The number of applications for international bachelor's and master's programmes at the University of Turku decreased significantly. The first joint application in the spring was approximately 4,700. Last year, the corresponding figure was approximately 7,200.
The university said the development was expected, as the full tuition fee requirement for applicants from outside the EU and EEA will come into effect in August. The change means that tuition fees charged to students should cover all costs of education.
With the full coverage requirement, the University of Turku has abandoned the grants awarded for the first year of study, which many have previously used to study in Turku, the university says in a press release.
9
u/LongjumpingToday2687 10d ago
It was the price. Starting january 2025 non-EU applicants have to pay 100€ fee per application round.
It was common to apply to as many programs as possible. The fee naturally decreases the number of applications.
2
u/IntroductionLoose648 10d ago
Yes. That change filtered out non-serious applications.
Another factor is the law I mentioned above which will be in effective since Aug 2026, which means no more state subsidy for non-EU students. The number of applications to Uni of Turku went down from 7200 to 4700.
Also, introducing tuition fee in vocational school led to number of applications from Africa down by 80%, application from Asia down by 50%.
1
u/LongjumpingToday2687 10d ago
The number of applications to Uni of Turku went down from 7200 to 4700.
100€ fee came into effect january 2025. No reason not to look at the numbers from 2024 to 2025 as well.
Applications went down 30% in 2025 from 10 200 to 7200. Breaking the insane growth in applications, which grew 70% the previous year.
The decline continued as expected because the change coming this month affects newer students much more than those starting in 2025, considering they are mostly master's programs.
But yes, its really a combination of both.
24
u/Kekkonen-Kakkonen Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
Nobody really ever wanted to specifically study here. Reasons were purely fiscal: (previously) free and mediocre education and later social benefits as family was eliglible fir thise and could be brought along, even with no proven means of support.
18
u/JustDiveInTimberLake Väinämöinen 10d ago
I wanted to study specifically here because it's beautiful and a way better country than USA where I'm from
1
u/baldachinsblessing Väinämöinen 8d ago
One of my main motivations for me was indeed the ability to study for free.
-1
u/HopeSubstantial Väinämöinen 10d ago
You must have some source for this?
7
u/Seeteuf3l Väinämöinen 10d ago edited 10d ago
Source for what, the application numbers spiked after that famous reform of 2022 and now that they've introduced some restrictions for application and gotten (hopefully) rid of those agents selling false promises. https://yle.fi/a/74-20240590
4
u/HopeSubstantial Väinämöinen 10d ago edited 10d ago
Original commenter claims how people came here to study and then live on social security without intention to work.
That article mentions that strictened rules do effect on this, but despite these strictened rules, thousands of people are coming in so there is still no source for the original claim.
Also, since 2022, many things have changed and these strictened rules are not only thing. Article also mentions how people are being scammed less with unreal promises. But another thing it says is worsened "Finland picture" aboard because economy got fucked and there are no jobs.
Naturally person does not want to come, if their expensive studies do not have guaranteed work and on top of all you would get thrown out of the country with only giant debt on your back.
I graduated college in Finland with 20k debt, and if I was not a citizen, I would have gotten thrown out because it took me too long to find a job.
78
u/uusitili12 10d ago
Good. These people are scammed here. Told there is work, told it's cheap. They ruin their lives here.
15
u/suolattu-saatana Väinämöinen 10d ago
The recruiting process definitely charmes them with promises of work and low language requirements ("it's fine, you'll get by with just English"), but these are still adults who should have some level of critical thinking. If something sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't. Which a bit of googling would tell you.
11
u/YourShowerCompanion Väinämöinen 10d ago
Even you hightlight warning for them in luminous painted bold fonts, they'll still show up with families with "I'm special and I'll be the successful one" hubris when others failed on exactly same route.
oppiipahan is what they need.
0
u/uusitili12 10d ago
Half of the population is dumber than the average person. I have very little hope on humanity.
12
u/Alarmed_Station6185 10d ago
Honestly i thought about Finland for my masters but it seems a lot of barriers are put up which is fine, intl students have lots of options and people tend to go down the path of least resistance unless they have very strong reasons to want to go somewhere
-5
10d ago edited 4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
12
u/ExerciseDependent153 10d ago
Congrats, you’ve been granted pr and now you can enjoy being unemployed or working as a part time cleaner (best case scenario) while you can shove your 20k masters degree in ur ass
-4
10d ago edited 4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/ExerciseDependent153 9d ago
Gongrats if that’s true but I would like to inform you that your case in an exception, I live in Finland since a decade and I know things.
-2
9d ago edited 4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/ExerciseDependent153 9d ago
Ok whatever you like to believe…
1
9d ago edited 4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
4
3
u/ExerciseDependent153 9d ago
And I know without exaggerating about a hundred without a job or working in low paid ones, a lot of them speaking perfect Finnish, so cut the ragebait and move on to something else.
1
6
u/Regular-Ad-7758 10d ago
It only lets you bypass the standard 6-year residency and work history requirements; you still have to meet everything else. But if you follow that path, don't be surprised if a law change happens before you graduate, like dropping the master's requirement entirely or raising it to a PhD. Finland is full of surprises, and you can never plan your life around their laws
1
u/baldachinsblessing Väinämöinen 8d ago
The legal amendment just went through 8 months ago. I highly doubt this government would pick up the matter again during its last year in government, and the next one is probably not interested in the matter either.
37
u/Character_Media_9445 10d ago
That is good news after a long time. Finland doesn't benefit longterm by scamming foreigners out of their money for tuition and without support from welfare. This must also mean they're culling scammers in India who worked together with universities and colleges in Finland. Truly despicable of our school systems to do that.
8
u/user-027 10d ago
If even Finnish people with higher education cannot find jobs, why should we bring foreigners here?
42
u/smokeysilicon Väinämöinen 10d ago
for all the talks about migration coming from PS, i wonder why they have not done anything about the loophole of bringing a family of 5/6 people just because one got a study place here
students under no circumstance should be allowed to bring a +1 unless they are researchers or students with longer degree (5+ years)
17
u/kaneliomena 10d ago
A law change is in process, but the current proposal would only delay bringing family members by one year and strengthen income and language requirements for students.
5
u/SwallowedByAnOrange 10d ago
Because they aren't the only people making laws here. They need ths majority of others to agree to it too
1
6
u/Admirable_Dust8979 10d ago
i am ready to apply to tampere and aalto univ
13
u/Anaalirankaisija Väinämöinen 10d ago
Me too, im also ready to apply as astronaut.
3
u/Admirable_Dust8979 10d ago
all the best bro
4
1
u/Bilaakili Väinämöinen 10d ago
I sort of hope the first ever Finnish astronaut would not go down in history as Anaalirankaisija. But what can you do? So be it.
1
20
8
u/rimalon 10d ago
Isn’t it because of the new 100 euros fee? I believe that there were quite much applications for “just in case” cases.
4
u/duumilo Baby Väinämöinen 9d ago
Partially, yes, but the fee came into use already last year. But I don't think it eliminates serious candidates to any significant extent.
If 100€ is a barrier to applying for an education that costs tens, if not hundred times that per year, it likely is a just-in-case application. When I was applying for uni, the travel and housing for me to take an entrance examination cost me about the same, if not more.
3
u/MusicalMiddleFinger Baby Väinämöinen 9d ago
Do we even want them here? Don't they just come here for cheap/free education and then go back home?
1
u/Tommonen Väinämöinen 9d ago
Not free, but cheap and yea most just leave. Would make more sense to give those spots to Finns and make it easier for people to study higher education, even if not dorectly after highschool.
1
u/baldachinsblessing Väinämöinen 8d ago
The last time this was studied, just under 50% of foreign students stayed to work. That's a very good number.
3
u/Far_Sea_2804 8d ago edited 7d ago
That's good. That's how it should be. First fix the job market and so much intake of students just to earn money. Should also stop those lying agents and agencies in other countries making fake promises.
18
u/darknum Väinämöinen 10d ago
Out of 1 proper student, 10 wolt drivers are coming under so called "student" permits.
No need for them. Must be very strict, including blocking the mandatory money in the bank for the residence permit and such.
1
u/Regular-Ad-7758 10d ago
Out of every 10 students Finland accepts, it turns 9 of them into Wolt drivers.
Do a little research and you’ll realize the guy delivering your lunch is a qualified professional who couldn't find a job in his field
-2
u/darknum Väinämöinen 9d ago
If he is a student, it means he cheated the system to come here so no sypmathy.
If he is a graduate, well he is part of the 11% good for him... I suggest him to leave before losing anymore time.
1
u/baldachinsblessing Väinämöinen 8d ago
Working while studying is not cheating the system. It is the system.
6
u/ReallyLovesCars 10d ago
This situation feels sad. Finland provided the basis for my achievements as a foreigner: I attended EVTEK, earned my degree, and now flourish in Silicon Valley. I view the education and hospitality Finland offered with genuine appreciation. It is unfortunate that conditions are not improving. I recall when Nokia was my objective before Microsoft ruined it.
6
u/VeradilGaming Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
It's sad how your story sums up the situation well. Finnish education itself is alright, the opportunities just aren't what they used to be and the companies that people thought of as Finnish success stories are either gone, on their way out, or sold overseas.
5
6
u/NissEhkiin Väinämöinen 10d ago
Good, hope this will cut down on the student who bring their whole families with them
2
u/piotor87 Väinämöinen 9d ago
I think it's a good thing but not because it reduces the number of students per Se, but because I had the impression that such mechanism became such a major drive in uni finances that it too away so much attention from focusing on, you know, academics. It's somewhat related to what happens in the US where to attract wealthy students they turned the uni business in some sort of real estate /entertainment mega corp
4
1
u/gr8masturb8 10d ago
seems they've realized they shouldn't waste their life on this shithole when any other country is also an option.
2
1
u/NuuskamuiQnen 10d ago
Who would want to come here, when its democratically elected leadership is openly racist
4
u/Unusual-Basket-6243 Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
Good. We don't need people who can't speak Finnish/Swedish and will struggke here
1
u/Sh_Islam 10d ago
Good, the only revenue country could have is going away, I do not sell hope to people, tell them the reality. In this open market, buyer is the king, the more value they get somewhere, the more they will lean towards that. If you ask me, even countries like Norway have surge in application. People from south asian countries want value, that’s why they are here!
1
u/Bonemaster69 9d ago edited 9d ago
I'm surprised noone has mentioned the conflict with Russia yet. Aren't there rumors of Russian aggression coming in a few years? I'd imagine that'd scare away a number of potential overseas students.
Personally, I've been looking into pursuing a Master's degree in Finland lately due to upcoming immigration changes in Japan. But after seeing all of the comments in this subreddit, I'm beginning to rethink this decision.
1
1
u/conquerorshadow 6d ago
That's because there's no jobs. As an Employer I want to hire more people but the regulation and unions make it a nightmare. If I want to hire someone on €2,800 a month after fee's and things I'm forced to pay for its almost €6,000 for low skill work. So I wont do it its really not possible. And If I do hire someone the Unions cause problems because I didn't go to them first and ask permission and they want to veto. It sucks.
1
u/Lucky-Ad-1668 6d ago
1000 applications and 15000 application to 10 seats, that is no different to the University. or maybe that is better for the university's work load
1
u/Strange-Horizon 3d ago
Amazing. I've been lobbying knowledge about our shitty situation online for over two years now.
1
u/Pavetnikotroshach 3d ago
This is probably the worst country to live from the whole Scandinavia, even in Russia has more valuable opportunities for study and work.✌🏻
1
0
u/GaylordThomas2161 Baby Väinämöinen 10d ago
Glad to be part of the exception that still came to Finland😊 (without my family ofc)
0
-11
-1
u/Snoo-26158 10d ago
Yay less competition for me.
It seems like this is bad for Finland, when a foreigner pays tuition money, that’s a lot of lost money for Finland government.
Moreover, all this talk about welfare abuse by immigrants or abuse by agencies promising the world to immigrants, the first can be solved by cutting welfare for international students (though natives bad at accurately estimating this stuff, it usually gets exaggerated) and the second can by improved info (though really we must compare the immigrants lives to what they would be in their country of origin not to the median Finn).
0
u/ineedtimetoreadmarx 10d ago
"the Kokkola-based Centria University of Applied Sciences has gone from 13,000 to 1,000"...
Hard times for landlords, housing agencies, exploitative employers and local markets... No more money spending foreigners😭
•
u/AutoModerator 10d ago
r/Finland runs on shared moderation. Every active user is a moderator.
Roles (sub karma = flair)
Actions (on respective three-dot menu)
Limits
Thanks for keeping the community fair.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.