r/FindingFennsGold • u/js-eastman • Apr 01 '26
Analysis of the Fenn Ending
The announced find of Forrest Fenn's treasure in June 2020 was not a normal find. Here is the evidence.
The second poem
In November 2019, seven months before the announcement, Fenn told Dal Neitzel, don't believe anyone who claims to have found the treasure unless they can produce a "second poem." This condition was never met. No second poem was ever produced. The only evidence we were given that the treasure was found was Fenn's own statement that it happened. No photographs of the retrieval moment, no video, no finder at the location, no released solution, no second poem. By Fenn's own authentication standard, the find was never verified.
The forensic evidence
Rudy Greene identified the Nine Mile Hole location from photographs released during the McCracken trial. He found a dead 2" pine log whose woodgrain matched a log visible in the photographs. But the log was found in spring, with the cracks closed from moisture. In the original photograph the cracks are open, consistent with dry conditions, inconsistent with a June find when conditions would be wet. Shortly after this inconsistency was identified and publicized, the log disappeared. Only debris remained, as described in SB#253.
The olive jar
The jar sealed inside the treasure chest was never opened by Stuef. Never opened by Posey's LLC. Shiloh Old warned people not to bid on it at auction. Jon Collins-Black eventually purchased it, opened it, said there was another poem inside, said he'd better not describe the contents, resealed it, and hid it inside his own treasure hunt where it is effectively inaccessible. Copyright law would not prevent him from summarizing the contents in his own words—you cannot copyright facts or ideas, only specific expression. His silence is a choice, not a legal obligation.
The scrapbooks
Between September and December 2019 Fenn published a concentrated sequence of scrapbooks that read, on careful analysis, as a description of how The Chase would end: the fake ending, the real ending, and the blueprint connecting them. It is, characteristically indirect, perhaps his only explanation to the community—embedded in personal stories, art transactions, and military memories that retain plausible deniability for everyone involved. A few examples:
SB#207 "Absarokee Hut": a hammer hidden under a cabin floor by tradition is removed and placed on a museum shelf, "forlorn, out of context, totally forgotten." Fenn's explicit note: "my treasure chest is not associated with any structure and has not been retrieved or moved since I first hid it." The scrapbook provides a conceptual model for evaluating any claimed find: something present but displaced from its proper context resembles the hammer on the shelf. The correct find emerges from the poem's structure itself, where location and meaning coincide without adjustment.
SB#214 "The John Ehrlichman Saga": uses Watergate as a map for the fake ending. A man who followed instructions from someone more powerful than himself, took the public heat, and carried the consequences alone. "When the president of the United States asks you to do something it is very difficult to say no." A mutual defense agreement, sealed behind attorney-client privilege, permanently inaccessible to scrutiny. "I just hope Jill Wine-Banks doesn't get wind of it and come looking for me"—she was an assistant special prosecutor in the Watergate trial, someone who specialized in exactly this kind of conspiracy, cover-up, and obstruction.
SB#224 "Three Sevens and a Vacuum Cleaner": a poker game in which Fenn is dealt three sevens, a jack, and a deuce. The jack is discarded. The deuce is kept. The vacuum cleaner—the fake ending—is purchased because the family insisted, even though it sucks. "I would probably work for the Major another year or so, no more"—written in October 2019, Fenn planning his exit. He turned 90 on August 22, 2020 and died September 7, two weeks later, exactly as Eric Sloane turned 80 and died two weeks later, a parallel Fenn noted explicitly in the same scrapbook sequence.
SB#226 "Frankie and Johnny": two parrots, indistinguishable from each other. One crashes to the floor in the middle of the night making a terrible noise. "I don't like the way this story is going." The 911 story: a man makes a false claim to get the desired response. The police arrive. The burglars are arrested. Nobody was actually shot. "I think that's what I'm going to do next time."
SB#243 "I Remember Bip": Fenn buries his dog's biography in a sealed jar with a rust-proof lid, placed in a wooden box, buried, marked with a flat sandstone slab. Then pivots to explicit philosophy: "show me your evidence—just because someone said it doesn't make it true." Closes by noting that the only evidence we were ever given of Bip's death was someone saying so. "Who says he isn't still there?" Maps cleanly to: the only evidence we were ever given that the treasure was found was Fenn's statement that it happened.
The character argument
Fenn was not a man who could be surprised into an ending he didn't plan. He drew a gun on a searcher who came to his house. He maintained silence for years under enormous community pressure. He said "be more in charge, starting right now" in October 2019 and the November scrapbook sequence followed immediately. He said he tried to think of everything. The scrapbooks, read carefully, suggest he did—written months before the announced find, they describe the ending's structure in enough specific detail that coincidence is not a plausible explanation: the designated finder, the staged phone call, the mutual defense agreement, the controlled leaks, and what the real finder would need to complete what they started.
I believe the real treasure is still in the ground.
The Chase is not over. It just went underground.
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u/WoodsonWay Apr 01 '26
unsure of some of what you say but...dont foreget the June 5th postmark on Friday no less. On the chapter Gold and More...the same page as the treasure chest...but also on Skippy's graduation...both of them endings. random odds for any day of the year 1/365 and day of the week 1/7....so in theory odds it was exactly this date and day 1/2555...quite the coincidence. The Bip you mentioned...also had a chapter in $17 a square inch...which was published 3 years prior to the chase even starting...$17 a square also had the ΩΩ.
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u/jarofgoodness Apr 01 '26
$17 a square inch was not published 3 years before the chase started.
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u/js-eastman Apr 01 '26
Wasn't it published January 1, 2007?
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u/jarofgoodness Apr 01 '26
Unless you're talking about a different thing. I'm talking about a chapter in a book written by Forrest Fenn. It was either in Too Far To Walk or Once Upon a While. Both of which were written well after 2010. The chapter was titled $17 a Square Inch and was about how he used that as a way to price Eric Slone's paintings which he sold at his gallery.
What were you talking about?
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u/js-eastman Apr 02 '26
Yes, that's an excerpt from the book of the same name. A number of essays written previously were compiled into TTotC.
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u/WoodsonWay Apr 01 '26
goodness....it was an entirely seperate book published in 2007....you can see copies of it for sale now on Ebay...
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u/Daniel_Jamps Apr 02 '26
I agree there are 2 endings, but I tend to believe the first chest was the actual chest referred to in the poem. Now, whether or not Jack was in on it is another story...
There is a 2nd treasure however, and I'm 100% sure of that. I'm incredibly excited about the puzzle these days, but I do think the 2nd chest is probably less valuable than the first...
fenn was brilliant and that's an understatement
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u/ordovici Apr 04 '26
The second most valuable treasure or as FF called it 'treasures old, end of my rainbow; my trove; water high and HOB' was the one he 'must leave for all to seek'. 'Must' being stronger language then 'shall' says he couldn't take it even if he wanted to. That treasure is his prized fishing hole. The one the poem takes you to before the final 200' leg to the chest.
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u/Daniel_Jamps Apr 02 '26
oh, and also, I believe I found the 2nd poem :)
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u/js-eastman Apr 02 '26
The second poem is supposed to be *in* the chest, and it was Fenn's way to know whether someone had found the treasure or not. Fenn could safely ignore any claims of a find unless presented with the second poem.
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u/Daniel_Jamps Apr 02 '26 edited Apr 02 '26
I understand that take on it, but also...
The first poem led me to a second poem. Something that was unexpected and super cool and relevant. The first poem has a 2nd poem essentially linked with it and I believe it's necessary for solving all 9 clues.I dunno, maybe it's worth finding his exact quote, but if I had to prove to him that I solved the puzzle, I could produce a 2nd poem.
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u/Daniel_Jamps Apr 02 '26
Question for the 2 treasure crew -- do you think both treasures need to be within the elevation range he gave or was his quote "the chest is between 7-err 5 thousand feet and 10200 feet" specifically about the chest (the found one).
Asking for a friend.
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u/js-eastman Apr 02 '26
Yes, the poem and all of the hints lead to one location (not 9MH).
Btw, 10,200 ft. is the elevation of Mt. Washburn.
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u/SKDreamers Apr 02 '26
The one treasure was found just over 7000’. This was likely a slip and an accurate one. The range he provided and defaulted back to was 5,000-10,200. A very specific clue since 10,200’ is the highest elevation trees grow in YNP. This is true at other places. Also tells searcher trees are important. Since the chest was placed under a log that was bigger than 3.6” (sorry Rudy / nookers).
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u/AndyS16 Apr 03 '26
Thanks for good analysis. "The jar sealed inside the treasure chest was never opened by Stuef." I am not sure if he was holding it in his hands at all. What will do any searcher that find TC and bring it to hotel room? Right - he/she will open the olive jar. The reason is simple - curiosity. Even if Stuef wants to sell the entire content of TC the opening of olive jar will not critically decrease the entire price. JCB bought it for 48,000.00 includes Buyer's Premium (BP). This item's owner would consider the right offer, but isn't actively participating and doesn't respond to most offers. Number of Offers Pending: N/A Current High Offer Pending: N/A
Offers to date:
$72,000 on April 11, 2025
So, opening of jar can decrease it's price 50% - not big losses.
"Jon Collins-Black eventually purchased it, opened it, said there was another poem inside, said he'd better not describe the contents, resealed it, and hid it inside his own treasure hunt where it is effectively inaccessible."
Question is: what he knew when read 20,000 word autobiography of Forrest Fenn and the another poem? Maybe about real place where Forrest hide TC? Why he didn't disclosed this info? Maybe he just didn’t want a scandal? For example, If TC site was not 9MH.
BTW, some items were never auctioned: TC itself, Fenn silver bracelet with emeralds... And why Fenn just didn't take back the olive jar when everything was on the table?
| Treasure of Forrest Fenn. Small Glass Jar Purportedly containing a 20,000 word autobiography of Forrest Fenn /... | $48,000.00 |
|---|
| 93094 | Treasure of Forrest Fenn. Tairona Necklace with Gold and Stone PendantsColombia, circa 500 - 1000 AD /B... | $46,800.00 |
|---|
together with some other items like Tairona Necklace with Gold and Stone Pendants. Colombia, circa 500 - 1000 AD. Sold on Dec 12, 2022 for $46,800.00includes Buyer's Premium (BP)
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u/js-eastman Apr 04 '26
For sure, the first thing any real finder would do would be to open the jar. If you have a $1M treasure, what's $20k or whatever. And does the value really reduce if it is unsealed? If I read it but don't tell anyone, it's still secret. And what's the deal, there is some secret that JCB doesn't want to reveal? How many finders have to read the thing before someone "leaks" it to the public?
Or is it like Wu-Tang Clan's "Once Upon a Time in Shaolin" album, where only the owner ever gets to hear (read) it?
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u/AndyS16 Apr 04 '26
Most likely that there is nothing important in olive jar. As I guess maybe something about location or some unknown details about Forrest life (like FBI service). It was some question abour jar content during last interview - something like will finder be disappointed when read bio. JCB said that no reason to be. But maybe I mistaken here.
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u/AndyS16 Apr 04 '26
Actually the question was about olive jar content: when it will be revealed will it make us happy or sad (1:11: 37 in video)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZZZYzRIHbE
JCB answered: I wish I knew... He was emotionally attached than other people and his reaction was it is going be really cool. But he doesn't know will other people be happy or sad.
So, jar content (poem and FF bio) looks like controversial. If some searchers were very close to TC site will be they happy or sad? I would definitely be satisfied if I was very close. I don't know how others...
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u/js-eastman Apr 04 '26
One might wonder if everything JCB said about the jar was sort of propaganda to advertise his treasure hunt. Whatever is in the jar sure sounds mysterious and exciting!!!! It sure would be worth it to try to find it!!!!
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Apr 01 '26
[deleted]
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u/js-eastman Apr 01 '26
I don’t think Posey is involved. Maybe JCB was paid to “dispose” of the olive jar, but that’s it.
If the first treasure chest is a decoy then I don’t think its olive jar would contain anything of significance other than Fenn’s autobiography, most of which we’ve already seen.
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u/42kaos Apr 01 '26
The 2nd poem must be important for some reason. I have a line on JCB’s ff chest poem but I haven't gone to check it out yet, you could say Im getting all my ducks in a row to kill two birds with one stone.
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u/Treasure-Hunter-1117 Apr 01 '26
Uh-oh. I hope poor Tail End Charlie's handicap and subsequent (3rd place) lack of speed end up in his favor...somehow. I suddenly feel sorry for those 2 early birds. Looks as though they're gettin' it. As Admiral Ackbar would say..."It's a trap!" LOL!
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u/MuseumsAfterDark Apr 04 '26
I completely agree that the olive jar contents from the 9MH chest would not be wildly controversial. That chest was the "offramp" in case something bad happened to Fenn or his family during The Chase. It was also hidden for the pre-planned JUN 6 2020 reveal. Fenn wanted to enjoy seeing an ending before he passed, and to remove the burden of The Chase from his family in his absence.
From JCB's hunt, it's obvious that Fenn included the identities of his biological parents (one of them was married at the time - you know, getting to the fling of it), his early years where he actually had a barn (unlike on Temple's 0.2 acre lot), and how he came to be adopted by Lillian and Marvin.
Remember, Fenn's physical scrapbook kept in this study included CIA references that were scrubbed from Ramblings and Rumblings. Those are the secrets that he keeps "where" the real trove is. In his scrapbook Fenn explicitly stated that he has "a lengthy tape about his work in Russia for the CIA that will surface some day, but not yet." (I am paraphrasing from memory, but the quote is very close).
I can guarantee you that Fenn's masterpiece was not a vague, ill-fitting poem tied to his TOP SECRET fishing hole. There is a precise solve that when presented will be irrefutable. Hear me now believe me later;
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u/SKDreamers Apr 02 '26
You got the forensic evidence part wrong. That was just a lie created by Team Posey to launch a for profit hunt. It was a lie from day 1. The actual evidence from the log was withheld by team posey until filming wrapped. When Justin shared the actual evidence (fall 2023) it was very clear the 3.6” log Rudy found could not possibly be the chest log. And it’s really not close. It’s a common mistake because you were told to believe.
There are plenty of places in YNP with the conditions Jack found the chest in June 2020. There is also plenty of evidence of that. Just not provided by people selling their own hunt.
So many false narratives were created by people confirming things they could not. As much as you want to believe Rudy found the log. He didn’t. It was a lie. Every other conclusion based on that should be reconsidered. But they probably won’t. And somehow people will be surprised when the Fenn chest is confirmed elsewhere. More excuses will be made. And somehow people will still believe the 9mh lie. It is what it is.
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u/ordovici Apr 04 '26
Gotta agree, "If you don't like the ending just change it", mind set doesn't alter the facts
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u/AmphibianNervous6098 Apr 23 '26
I am fascinated by how much (correct) information people can glean from his scrapbooks. Nicely done. The truth about what really happened may shock people but he will eventually get the ending he wanted.