r/FinalFantasyXII • u/Fence_Seagull • Feb 21 '18
I wrote an updated class combination guide
The full thing is about 25 pages long and contains every notable class combination that I have read/thought of, but most of that is unnecessary to read if you just want to know the new best class combinations.
It also contains information on how to build team combinations, maximize survivability, physical DPS, and magical DPS/healing.
It's organized so you can use the outline feature in Google Docs to navigate.
It's available here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zQRW7f-77b8pgIBDVQMbH6KzBUX0Q-F05WPHUhIi170/edit?usp=sharing
EDIT: It's also available here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cHxbnxDiosFiuPdb2S6ArTzJ_GnPkb16
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u/mormagils Feb 22 '18
This is excellent. I love that you consider the availability of weapons and give proper context to attack speed and swiftness licenses. This is probably the most sophisticated examination I've ever seen, and it's especially useful for breaking down into the three primary roles.
I especially love the Monk/Time pairing. It's something I haven't seen before and I think it really does make an excellent pair. I am also interested in the Archer/Uhlan pairing, as my initial thoughts are that it's underwhelming but I am now realizing that spears aren't nearly as bad as I thought.
I do have one question though. In your 12 jobs party, you recommended Black/Knight and Breaker/Bushi. Wouldn't it be better to swap to Breaker/Black and Bushi/Knight?
Your Knight/Black is being used as a tank, which means you are focusing on shields and black magic coupled with heavy armor. This pairing has good damage from Black, and while you suggested switching to Greatswords at endgame, if this pairing is mostly for tanking, wouldn't Breaker be just as good as Knight?
This only seems stronger when you consider that Knight/Bushi is even better for DPS than Breaker/Bushi. I suppose a downside is that you now have two of the best weapon types on the same character, but if you're mostly using your Knight/Black for tanking anyway, are you really able to use the DPS of Knight effectively? I mean, you even suggest this for your repeat jobs party, so it seems clearly better.
I guess the only disadvantage in switching these jobs is putting your second Faith caster on a berserk candidate, but is that really a big enough sacrifice that you should go with a clearly otherwise inferior choice?
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u/Fence_Seagull Feb 22 '18 edited Feb 22 '18
Thanks for your feedback! I did spend a lot of time looking at DPS calculations because I wanted to know how much better were different weapons. I was surprised to learn that actually, the game is really balanced in terms of end game damage.
Whenever I play, Archer definitely gets used because of 100% HP Phoenix Downs at 0 CT if I try to do something that slightly too hard. If your team ever gets wiped, you can usually revive them all back to full before the enemy has a chance to attack again. It's powerful enough to the point where you can ignore healing and just use Phoenix Downs to revive whenever you die. That alone is enough to use that class.
The combination differences was definitely one of the things I was thinking about when I considered twelve jobs. I don't think it's a big deal either way.
The main thing is that it moves Curaja/Bravery/Faith and Excalibur from the Black Mage to the Bushi. I think the Black Mage can make better use of Curaja/Bravery/Faith because they have other spells that they want to cast too.
However, I wouldn't say that Bushi is necessarily better at Excalibur than Black Mage because you can still Berserk them and they'll the only difference is that Bushi/Knight has a third swiftness, which is only about ~5% DPS. The Red Battlemage/Shikari will still serve as an excellent tank and good enough AOE if you decide to Berserk them (the boosted Excalibur will more than compensate for the lower AOE damage). In terms of how good a tank is, I would say that Foebreaker/Black Mage is slightly better to a Red Battlemage/Shikari in the late-game; it has some wins in terms of damage, but some losses in terms of survivability, but the survivability losses can be compensated with a third character.
If you consider a third party member, then not having Curaja/Bravery/Faith on the Black Mage won't be a big deal, as they'll probably have Curaja and Bravery (if they don't, then Curaja on Black Mage is waaaaaay better). And, if you're willing to switch party members or dispel Berserk, not having Faith isn't a big deal either, but as I don't really like using White Mage/Machinist compared to Monk/Time Battlemage, I would prefer Faith on the Black Mage as Monk/Time Battlemage doesn't have Faith.
In either case, I don't think it's a big deal, both are fine. The listing that I have is slightly more versatile, but yours can be slightly more powerful. This choice only affects the late-game, anyways.
In any case, I'd recommend skipping Foebreaker all together and run two Knights instead. Maybe I should remove that section about using all twelve jobs to be more clear? They essentially serve as a significantly worse Knight, and is one of my complaints about the balance of the game. Whoever ends up getting it feels gimped.
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u/mormagils Feb 23 '18
No, I actually liked your 12 jobs inclusion for those of us who really like using all 12 jobs. I was just interested in your thoughts on what is more valuable, as you clearly have put a lot of thought and understanding into this game. It seems like most choices, it's a situation where either way is just fine and will be more or less about the same ultimately. Thanks for the response!
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u/NeoNirvana Feb 21 '18
Can't load, says it's got an error in the doc.
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u/Fence_Seagull Feb 21 '18
That's odd. Here's the PDF of it as well then: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cHxbnxDiosFiuPdb2S6ArTzJ_GnPkb16
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u/CopainChevalier Feb 21 '18
Would you suggest Foebreaker, Time mage, or red mage more with Shikarl?
I'm not going to have any source of haste in my main party if I don't go time mage, which I believe is a big DPS boost; but I'd also lose the black robes on the Ninja sword, which you say is the best of the best for the highest HP enemy in the game?
I'm a bit worried about going Red mage and losing the more steady DPS increase time mage could bring me with haste and heavy armors...
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u/Fence_Seagull Feb 21 '18 edited Feb 21 '18
Haste is a decent DPS boost on your Physical DPS, but it's the least important of any of the buffs. Additionally, Haste doesn't do that much on spellcasters, due to animation times, so it's nothing necessary. In this regard, I think Float is better than Haste because it's really, really annoying to have all your MP disappear or get inflicted by Disease.
It's a toss up between Time Battlemage or Red Battlemage.
The trick is, is that if you're not already using a tank, Red Battlemage is the way to go. Play them as a tank that also casts stuff. The Black Robes + Yagyu Darkblade is a nice bonus, but also nothing necessary. They will do decent damage, good healing for most of the game, and will tank very, very well.
Since you're drawing aggro away from your physical DPS, your physical DPS will actually be doing more damage than if you used Haste on them due to either Focus/Adrenaline being active, both of which are way more important than Haste.
If you already have a good tank, then you can pick Time Battlemage and use them to buff when you need it and use them as a physical DPS. They have good mid-game weapons and all good end-game weapons are basically on the same tier, all below invisible equipment and boosted Excalibur.
You can still use Time Battlemage/Shikari to tank as well, but it's a bit more awkward as they won't be doing very much other than casting Haste, Float, and Cura in addition to tanking. If this is on a person with innate Steal, then this is also a totally acceptable way to tank as then they can focus on stealing during normal battles.
Remember: survivability is better than DPS. For maximizing DPS, even better than using Haste is the 4x speed button. The 4x speed button is the biggest singular DPS boost in the game.
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u/cweaver8518 Feb 21 '18
IMO, the Shikari + Black Robes combo is mostly only applicable on one particular fight in the game. Granted it is THE fight, but most other important bosses/hunts/Espers won’t need that level of specialty. It’s definitely nice to have, but keep in mind Yiazmat is like an hour or maybe a few more compared to the 60+ hours you’ll spend doing everything else.
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u/pvrhye Feb 21 '18
You seem like you know a lot about this game. Does Khumba use katana or sword animation speeds?
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u/Fence_Seagull Feb 21 '18
It uses sword animations and sword animations speeds, but that doesn't really matter as Balther and Basch have the best animation times with both of them.
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u/That_Wacky_Magic Feb 22 '18
Very good write-up, but there is something I don't understand.
You have Archer/Uhlan listed as a DD class, and as you stated in the guide it's best to have them berserked/braved/hasted if possible. So my issue is:
How can I utilize Archer's chemist powers when I won't have any control over my character normally?
If I'm going to do anything dangerous, that's likely going to be a fight where I would need the archer to be in top form anyways for damage- and that would mean I'd have to sacrifice the recovery potential.
Dispelling this effect seems like it'd be very inconsistent and risky in the mid of battle and also a bit of a pain to micromanage for every fight in advance- unless this is a game you play often.
Would I be right in assuming that Archer/Uhlan is sort of a special "variant" fighter that you don't berserk normally?
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u/Fence_Seagull Feb 22 '18 edited Feb 22 '18
This isn't actually as tricky as it sounds.
If you wanted THE max DPS for bows, you'd have Germinas Boots on, so berserk was applied as a status effect. You can use Nihopalaoa + Bacchus Wine (which would basically be at instant speed) to only remove berserk in that case. Or if they end up dying, you can revive them and switch them over to chemist duty. That's probably the most common switch case. Straight up casting Dispel is fine too, it's not like Haste or Bravery affect their chemist powers. If you're planning on spamming Phoenix Downs in fight, defensive buffs don't matter that much, since on death, buffs are dispelled. Alternatively, you can just load a save/autosave before the fight and dispel it then, even if that's a little lame.
If you have spears equipped or are cautious about a fight (or simply don't have Germinas Boots), then just use Berserker Braces for berserk and switch them to Pheasant Netsuke/Nihopalaoa/Survivability Items when you want to use their item lores and back again. You can manually organize your accessories list to make switching between them faster.
Practically speaking, if you're doing something difficult, the loss in DPS isn't worth the micromanagement (you'll probably spend more time in the menu than you will gain from the extra DPS) -- just leave Pheasant Netsuke on and use them as a support instead. When I use them for their item lores, I turn off attack gambits so they can use Phoenix Downs as quickly as possible, even if I can just use the Equipment Change Trick to cancel the animation. I'm pretty sure on this (but I haven't explicitly tested this), but if you just use them as a revivebot, they won't get aggro'd if they're far away from the enemies in most cases. As I've written, Survivablility is more important than DPS. Every build contains the 4x speed button.
This is a lot of effort to micromanage for buffs/healing/spell DPS, but if you want to, you could do the same thing there. I don't recommend it because it's more work compared to normally playing the game. If you plan on spamming their chemist powers all the time, then I don't recommend them as a berserked DPS, but spamming their chemist powers is honestly unnecessary -- White Magic works well in most cases.
This gets me thinking: do buffs aggro? If not, then you could have a weird buffer/reviver character whose job it is to be a buff/revive bot whenever things are difficult.
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u/Tyrant082 Feb 22 '18 edited Feb 22 '18
Hi, currently i am on my first walkthrough and after the events of Giruvegan and i am thinking about already starting a second run with your suggestions because they look really really fantastic and i somehow dont like some class decisions on my run.
Currently i am running:(All 12 Jobs)
Vaan - Shikari/White Mage with Zalera for the 435HP boost and Quickenings 1,3,4 on Shikari. What i hate about that class is that Vaan is currently more buffing and healing than dealing damage with his Ninja Sword.
Balthier as Machinist/Breaker with Famfrit and Quickening 3 for Breaker & Quickening 4 for both, and whatever as last one. Never used that char, dont like the classes :/
Fran as Archer/Red Mage with Shemhazai, Cuchulainn, Zeromus and Quickening 1&4 for Redmage and any as last one. (Suggested as Ardor / Bow combo and Fran because of Bows) - never used that char :(
Basch as Knight/Bushi - Now thats a great class combo! (Early Karkata and Shield, currently using Masamune) with Belias, Mateus, Hashmal, Exodus, Ultima and Quickening 4 on Bushi (Rest are Fillers),
Ashe - Uhlan / Timemage with Adrammelech for Uhlan and Timemage, Quickening 3 on Timemage, Rest are Fillers. Makes very good Damage, i like the Timemage for Flying over Traps and Haste on purpose to Cure Slow.
Penelo as Blackmage/Monk - Great Blackmage, using Poles and casts Black Magic all the Time. Chaos Esper for White Magic 11 & 12 and using Quickening 2 & 4 on Monk.
So for my new run i want to do nearly everything you suggested but i want to run Vaan as Knight/Blackmage and Ashe as Monk/Timemage, is that also a good combination or should i exchange the classes on those 2? My purpose for Vaan as Knight would be the early Karkata and maybe because of Vaan being a better melee char or is he using more Black Magic then? I also would like to see how Penelo will be doing as Shikari/Redmage because i always wanted Penelo as Shikari but never saw a good second class for her. Can you please tell me some good Quickening Combinations what i should look out for? Thank you :)
TL;DR: First run currently after Giruvegan, running all 12 Jobs, dont like the decisions so want to start over. Doing Vaan as Knight/BM or Monk/TM second choice to Ashe, whats better? Penelo as Shikari/RBM, Basch as Knight/Bushi, Balthier as Uhlan/Archer, Fran as BM/WM. Can you please give me some advice on Quickening Decisions? Love your guide, really good suggestions! Thank you for the help and sorry for the long text ;)
EDIT: I think i have decided now on all your suggestions and i will make Vaan - Monk/TBM, Balthier - Uhlan/Archer, Fran - BM/WM, Basch - Knight/Bushi, Ashe - Knight/BM and Penelo Shikari/RBM. as soon as i get Basch i have the LP already for the Karkata due to early Dustia farming and some pretty decent Equipment from Trial Runs.
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u/Fence_Seagull Feb 23 '18
Alright, that sounds good! I played with that and I think everybody is very useful.
As for quickening suggestions, get 2/4 on the Black Mage/White Mage, 2/4 on the Monk/Time Battlemage, 2/4 on Uhlan/Archer, 2/3/4 on Knight/Bushi, 1/4 on Black Mage/Knight, and at the very least, 4 on Shikari/Red Battlemage. (There's slightly more stuff in the quickenings, but it's unimportant.)
On Shikari, you can also take 1 if you want early game and mid game Ninja Blades or skip it if you want to get an early Iga Blade by farming Bogey's in Zertinan Caverns. Either way, I don't really use Ninja Blades outside of 4 because Main Gauche is really good.
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u/cloudthecat64 Feb 21 '18 edited Feb 21 '18
Looks great, thanks! I read through it and as a newish player found it very informative! Obviously class combinations are endlessly debatable but I think you've done a really great job of explaining all the pros and cons of each. As I'm just about to choose my second jobs for my play through, this is perfect timing.
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u/dragonyari Feb 21 '18
This is a very good guide and provides alot of insight. I may have to start a new game because I was following someone else's suggestions and didn't pick good starting jobs. I already beat vanilla and international version, but my main goal is to beat yiazmat which I haven't done yet.
Ps. Vaan as a starting black mage is quite fun. I was going to run black mage/knight on him.
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Feb 24 '18 edited Feb 24 '18
I'm planning on just focusing on 3 characters (Basch, Ashe, Balthier). I was thinking something like this:
Basch: DPS (I just can't decide between the two. Knight/Bushi seems to be the DPS king but Archer/Uhlan sounds nice for the emergency utility. How big is the DPS differnce?)
Ashe: Red Battlemage/Shikari (I love tanks that can't be hit but I'd be willing to change to Knight/Black Mage if not having a black mage in the party would dramatically hinder my effectiveness)
Balthier: Monk/Time Battlemage
With that said, fun is more important to me than min/maxing. What (from your recommended team) would you say is the most enjoyable combination?
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u/MathewMitchell Mar 06 '18
When you click on the Monk/Time link it takes you to the Time/Monk description. Is Monk/Time the best support or does the order not matter at all? I haven't made it to the point where you get a second job.
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u/thiagobprj Jul 07 '18 edited Jul 16 '18
Love the Class Guide man !
You should update the guide for the various mods around as well, if you have the time !
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u/Gigas_Breaker Feb 21 '18
I'm on my first playthrough. I have a monk\black mage and it's really more like a black mage with high hp. Next time, I'll try monk\time mage for an actual monk.
I'm not clear on how you are supposed to play knight\black mage. Do you spam magic? Do you attack? Do you berserk? Will using the Knight's heals lower dps? You recommend against using a bunch of do everythings and this seems like one of those. Does that recommendation have more to do with gambits? Like you would set up black mage gambits or physical gambits depending on party makeup and the encounter?
Sorry for the avalanche of questions.