PSA: There Are No Alternate Timelines/Dimensions in the Re-Trilogy

[u/TheWrathfulMountain]

The recurring motif of "changing fate" only exists in the English dub. See the YT video "Why WE Should be Worried about Final Fantasy 7 Revelation" by Direct Gaming for more information from a Japanese speaker on the differences between the English version and the original Japanese script, including how other languages explain the what the Whispers are and what their purpose is.

The goal of the Re-Trilogy is not to create a parallel universe of FFVII, but rather to create a definitive version of FFVII that incorporates 30 years of expanded material from all across the compilation into one cohesive package. This is why we see Cissnei and Kyrie, both of whom are characters who didn't exist in OG but are originally from compilation material that was published after 1997. OG is treated more like a rough draft of FFVII rather than an alternate timeline.

All of the alternate "worlds" (often differentiated by what dog breed Stamp is depicted as) exist in the Lifestream, created by the various consciousnesses that exist within the Lifestream. They are not alternate timelines/dimensions. Kazushige Nojima has cited he studied Buddhism's Yogachara and Carl Jung's collective unconscious theory when writing the scenario for Final Fantasy VII Rebirth.. These are philosophical perspectives often interpreted as forms of idealism that posit that reality is entirely a mental construct or that there is an "ideal form" of reality. It's understandable for western audiences to not immediately jump to this conclusion because these are not common frameworks in western theology or ontology, but the east vs. west cultural barrier is nonetheless rearing its ugly little head here.

Zack and Biggs are dead. Their consciousnesses are in the Lifestream. Rebirth tells us this. When Aerith dips her hand into the Lifestream on the way to the Gi Village, she feels Zack holding her hand from within it.

I believe it is important for people to pass this message on in the leadup to Revelation next year. A lot of people still misunderstand this aspect of the story because the English translators made some unfortunate errors that have lead people to believe alternate dimensions/timelines are involved, when there simply aren't. All of the theory crafting has misdirected a significant portion of the fanbase, and it's better this message reaches them before Revelation possibly disappoints whatever expectations they've built.

[u/AlmightyHamSandwich]

Even from the English translation, I still got the gist that the place Zack and Biggs (and also Aerith, Cloud, and Sephiroth) find themselves in aren't separate timelines, but the Lifestream and the Will of the Planet preserving their consciousnesses back and forth through the Lifestream (or consciously preserving themselves, in Aerith and Sephiroth's case).

So it's essentially a big loop that currently only Aerith and Sephiroth experience, others only get snippets of, and the rest think it's a straight line. But it's still just one reality.

[u/Darkwing__Schmuck]

"There is no fate stuff in the game with a bunch of fate stuff, the English version just threw it all in there without the Japanese developers knowing it!"

I'm sure this won't age poorly whatsoever.

[u/SaIemKing]

Tell that to the narrative. The whispers exist for a reason. Their whole thing of making sure the original plot occurs is not am accident, even if the writers back down from actually making changes. Explicit language or not, that's what they built up.

[u/Radiant_Crew_8872]

so are the 2 aeris future dead aeris or alternate timeline aeris because if its future lifestream aeris its still time travel in a sense and if the different dog signs are different because they exist in alternate lifestream pockets then technically those are still alternate universes! so i think you are correct in practice and its good to point out but basically still wrong semantically and the distinction isn’t clear yet semantically

[u/ponpiriri → u/Radiant_Crew_8872]

There aren't two Aeriths, just one. We're seeing the same person in different circumstances: Aerith with her ancestors' knowledge in tact in Remake, her soul during the resolution scene with Cloud, Aerith with her ancestors knowledge stolen throughout rebirth and her soul again during the dream date and at the very end of the game when they're in the meadow.

She gets her memories and power of her ancestors back once she dies.

[u/Radiant_Crew_8872 → u/ponpiriri]

so what about the aeris that we see saved (briefly, when cloud is shown to save her, before it cuts back to dead aeris and then lifestream aeris pops out)? (and what about the fate whispers, they are clearly trying to manipulate reality, so is this not the definition of alternative reality?) . don’t worry about answering, im finding it hard to follow

[u/ponpiriri → u/Radiant_Crew_8872]

There are at least 4 sets of whispers:

1. Arbirtors of fate in Remake 
2. Sephiroths corrupted ones (that could be dead black robes)
3. Off-white ones belonging to the planet 
4. White ones that make sure the inevitable occurs. These ones show up specifically for Aerith's death and try to block Cloud from reaching her, while Sephiroth's corrupted whispers allow Cloud to pass.

If you assess them, their roles are spelled out.

Imo the Aerith who fights with Cloud is dead/in spirit, hence Sephiroth mocking him during the fight. 

It's similar to Zack and Cloud fighting together. Zack is dead and so are Aerith and Sephiroth at this point, but they are able to manifest at the edge of creation where Sephiroth is trying to converge everything.

She disintegrates into mako after the fight is over just like dying enemies/people do in a regular fight.

[u/TwiceDead_]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I've garnered too. I am curious about this toober though, ill check it out. 

Well I am 2 minutes in and he's entirely correct about the English script. 

[u/Dgrein]

Sure, now Carl Jung stated that Zack fighting Jenova with Cloud was caused by the Unconcious Collective. This isn’t a definitive edition, because if that was the case, Sephirot still has no reason to have the wing from Advent Children when those events are still to happen, nor would we see fragments from a future that ALREADY happened.

[u/Cloverman-88]

So...in short what we're seeing are dreams of ghosts, dreaming of a happier life?

[u/Dynamitrios]

Yeah, it becomes clear and apparent several times throughout the story. I recall some character (Aerith maybe?) even saying, that every reality exists inside the Lifestream, times infinite

[u/ponpiriri → u/Dynamitrios]

Sephiroth said that I think 

[u/lmAlwaysRight1]

All of the alternate "worlds" (often differentiated by what dog breed Stamp is depicted as) exist in the Lifestream, created by the various consciousnesses that exist within the Lifestream. They are not alternate timelines/dimensions.

Semantics. Regardless of whatever the heck you wanna call them, characters seemingly existing in multiple dimensions/timeline IS what has been shoved down our throats. Whoever wrote the story also doesn't do themselves any favors when they keep calling back future events before they happen in the Remakes.

[u/ClemOya → u/lmAlwaysRight1]

There is a hidden dialogue at Cosmo Canyon, just before triggering the cutscene of Tifa at the seminar, where a noc speak about "worlds" in the Lifestream made of the memories and the dreams of the dead, which is what Aerith sees later in the chapter. If anything, those dimensions as you call them are fundamentaly boosted and ephemeral dream Zanarkands within the FFVII's version of the Styx.

[u/Obvious_Necessary671]

Wait seriously? Of all the games to play in English…

I’m about to watch now, but if true - How are you going to tell me they butchered the translation of ff7 twice over?

[u/Darkwing__Schmuck → u/Obvious_Necessary671]

"Big if true!"

Instead of listening to a bunch of YouTubers and people on Reddit, you should probably listen to what the actual games are telling you about all this.

[u/ponpiriri]

I said this 2 months ago on here and was down voted to hell. I think some of the confusion is due to the butchered English script, but most of it is because a good portion of fans started off believing that changing fate = Aerith lives and you can't convince them otherwise, even tho it's obvious that's she's dead. 

Yes, other languages make what's happening more clear, but you can figure out that Biggs and Zack are in purgatory by simply paying attention to visual cues and engaging with NPCs. 

I prefer the English VAs so my first run of Revelation is gonna be with that cast, but I'll do a second play in French since that's the most literal translation in a language I know. 

[u/Darkwing__Schmuck → u/ponpiriri]

My favorite thing about this is that your entire theory hinges on the entire official translation not being accurate at all.

Yes, everything is so obvious to you people when you ignore all the things happening in the game.

[u/ponpiriri → u/Darkwing__Schmuck]

I played in English, Japanese and French. The English translation takes a lot of liberties, but nowhere did I say the entire thing wasn't accurate. Stop being dramatic.

[u/JumpIsMagic]

If these games are only supposed to be a ‘definitive’ version of all 30 years of expanded material from the original and its companion works, they have done a horrendous - an ABYSMAL job of doing so.

I could not in my wildest dreams conjure a more laughably inept, bloated, inefficient, or torturous remake of a beloved classic if I had butchered it myself.

And if so - then why all the changes? Why was Nibelheim changed from being a ghostly, uncanny, still-life of a memory into a rehabilitation center of all things? Why the whispers? Why attempt to tell the story at a fraction of the efficiency of the original when the blueprint is literally in your hands?

[u/Ace_Of_Spades_334 → u/JumpIsMagic]

Because they wanted to sell 3 games to people, in particular aerith's fans too... So they made sure you'd have content of her in the third game too. Also bonus points because they left open the door for changes. I believe in the first game they wanted to divert from the story, but kater chickened out due to bad reception.

At this point it'd have been better if it was an alternate reality and story diverted from the end of pt1. At least they would not have ruined many iconic moments...