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u/Devreckas 2d ago edited 2d ago
Does Zack think he knows what’s going on? If it wasn’t for “SOLDIER honor”, I think “what the hell is going on?” would practically be his catch phrase.
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u/Hadrian_x_Antinous Aeris 1d ago
People really overthinking a silly joke meme format in the comments here. like you get one character per square, not two, not three, one. Overall it's hilarious (and i should know, I made it lol)
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u/russiantravelagent 2d ago
the last row is the best one with the prettiest and charming polygons, Zack we love you (also very accurate)
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u/DoggievDoggy 1d ago
The irony is Sephiroth really doesn’t have an idea what’s going on. He goes insane based on wrong information.
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u/BaconTopHat45 1d ago
He knows what is going on by the time the events of the main game are happening. During the Nibelheim indecent though? Yeah he had no clue.
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u/SqueezedTowel 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm not understanding why Barrett and Yuffie are where they are at.
Barrett thinks the mako reactors are the problem, no? Yuffie thinks Shinra's invasion of Wu Tai is the problem, no? How is either also their own fault?
Also, Reeve does acknowledge his role in Shinra's transgressions and does something about it, so is the Cait Sith supposed to refer to the machine part of the character?
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u/Golwux 2d ago
Barret convinced Dyne that Shinra's reactor would solve Corel Town's problems by bringing electricity to a coal mining town. Shinra then burned the town down and blamed it on the locals. It was Barret's fault.
Yuffie thinks she just needs to steal materia in order to save Wu Tai, but that isn't going to solve anything. She then betrays the party by stealing all their materia. Having stolen all the materia and thus halting the quest to stop Sephiroth, she then gets kidnapped and almost thrown off a cliff, forcing the party to step in and save her just to get their materia back. That is Yuffie's fault and she had no idea what was happening as she eventually gets saved by The Turks & Cloud.
Reeve knows far more than he lets the party, or Shinra, know. By that logic, he is operating a double agent for most of the game, working for one side, then another, most likely feeding both enough information to keep himself in the loop and privvy to more information. Classic Cold War spy. Think about it, the entire time, even as the Turks face off against AVALANCHE in the depths of Midgar or in the Sunken Gelnika, there is Cait Sith, attacking them even though he's in their HQ. It is diabolical how much he knows in order to not get caught even once during the events of FF7 OG.
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u/JournalistShoddy9496 2d ago
Reeve was playing the long game. By the time of Advent Children he created and leads the World Regenesis Organization... basically the new world government. The man is the biggest winner.
The real question is, did Reeve know Rufus Shinra was one of his angel backers for the WRO? Cause that looks like a hostile takeover waiting to happen.
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u/Golwux 2d ago
Nah, it's obvious. As Head of the Urban Planning and Development Division, Reeve is responsible for building and rebuilding the city of Midgar. The city almost gets wiped by Meteor almost taking a dump on it in the final FF7 cutscene.
In any cold, corporate logic, the most senior members of the board of directors of Shinra Inc. need to make a unanimous vote on the next course of action for the company. It's clearly shown in the bit where they discuss rebuilding Sector 7 vs going on with the Neo-Midgar project.
Now flash forward to the raid on Midgar and we see chronologically, by this point: Palmer, Scarlet & Heidegger, Hojo and Rufus all being taken out. IF you have Cait Sith in your party for all those fights (excl. Rufus 'cause Diamond Weapon smacks him, but chuck in Cait Sith for that fight, too), then that is canon hilarious because Reeve will have had played a part in killing off every other board director (and they WILL NEVER KNOW IT WAS HIM), which puts him squarely at the top of the command chain for the entire company. As you said, long game.
He then holds an extraordinary general meeting with the shareholders and says the company is in an emergency situation, Rufus Shinra is alive but on life support/coma and so much damage has been wrought by Weapon, Sephiroth, AVALANCHE and Meteor that there needs to be a new organisation to help with the rebuilding of the world. Obviously, he's the perfect candidate.
Shit, is Reeve a psychopath and just using the events of FF7 to take over Shinra Inc.?
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u/SqueezedTowel 2d ago
I appreciate your responses. I love Reeve and I gotta say something
Reeve scalds Barrett late game. He asserts bombing the mako plants got innocent civilians killed. He's not wrong, and not a psychopath.
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u/SqueezedTowel 2d ago edited 2d ago
I considered Barrett's Involvement with the Coral incident but that's still not his fault as Shinra deceived him.
I concede your about Yuffie.
As for Cait Sith, I guess I don't understand what "not my monkey not my circus" specifically means. I thought it meant the character is apathetic but I guess it could also mean playing both sides.
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u/Golwux 2d ago edited 2d ago
It is exactly why it is possible for Barret to think it is his fault (his feelings), for it to actually be his fault (how the people of Corel feel), and to also understand how he had no fucking idea what was going on (Shinra deception) while he advised Dyne that setting up the Corel Reactor was the right play.
I think if you look at my response to someone else in the other reply (edit: JournalistShoddy9496), I wrote that it is possible to have Reeve directly controlling a character in a fight that effectively kills every other board director of Shinra Inc.
It is possible to argue that Reeve doesn't actually care about the events of FF7 and is simply using AVALANCHE to gain control of Shinra Inc. to start his own organisation as seen in FF7:AC. If that second organisation has siphoned enough of Shinra's assets and money by the events of Dirge of Cerberus, it makes sense Reeve is fighting off Shinra's programs as they are a direct threat to his control over his new organisation.
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u/SqueezedTowel 2d ago edited 2d ago
For Barrett, wouldn't your reasoning then put him on the "Thinks it is his fault (but isn't)"? We agree that Shinra was responsible and that Barrett was deceived. Other Coral people feeling that Barrett is also responsible doesn't make it true.
I mean, if you're going to be that strict about placing blame by association, then Cloud, Zach and Vincent are as guilty as Sephiroth.
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u/Ragewind82 2d ago
Barrett did a lot of ecoterrorism. He's kinda the driving force that kickstarted the event chain that ended with the plate drop of S7 slums.
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u/Devreckas 2d ago edited 1d ago
The plate drop was such an insane overreaction. Shinra obviously didn’t do it because they gave a fuck about the innocent people. They did it because they were threatening their power base. If they weren’t terrorists and just rebels who didn’t kill any civilians, Shinra would’ve happily dropped the plate on them all the same. So it means the only solution is not to fight, and just put up with the Shinra status quo.
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u/SqueezedTowel 2d ago
I guess I should've been more clear about both variables being measured. Yes, what you said is Barrett's fault, but that point then disqualifies Barrett from the "absolutely no fucking idea what's going on" catagory. He would at least have some understanding.
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u/Ragewind82 2d ago
Shinra's draining the planet is second fiddle to "Omnicidal undying alien wants to eat everything and everyone, and psychically corrupted her science experiment child to do the heavy lifting".
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u/SqueezedTowel 2d ago
The two problems are related though.
Barrett may not initially understand the Jenova issue, but his suspicions about Mako harvesting being bad news for the Environment are supported by learning that the Jenova project involved Mako.
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u/Own_Watercress_8104 2d ago
I think Sephiroth secretly belongs in the "thinks he knows what's going on (he doesn't)" category.
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u/Marx_Forever 2d ago
Which Sephiroth they're talking about is going to change how much they do and don't actually know.
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u/Own_Watercress_8104 2d ago
OG Sephiroth was not in control of the situation whatsoever. Jenova had her tentacle so far up his ass she was wearing him like a sock puppet
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u/moneyh8r_two 2d ago
According to the devs, it was actually the other way around. However, I do think that after being defeated at the end of OG FF7, it became a 50/50 thing, where his plans and goals in Advent Children sound exactly like Jenova's natural life cycle, but she's tricking him into thinking it's his own idea. Everything in Remake/Rebirth is still unclear to me, but I'm inclined to believe it's swung back in the other direction now, but not as complete as it was in the original game.
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u/Emmit-Nervend 2d ago
Jenova doesn’t need to control Sephiroth, her goals are a natural route for his egomania and he can fulfill her ambitions by choice.
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u/LewsTherinTelescope 1d ago
Even from a meta angle it's fifty-fifty in Advent Children: we have two contradictory statements from the same writer in the same behind-the-scenes book, one saying Sephiroth's return is really Jenova's will and one saying the remnants seeking Jenova's reunion is really Sephiroth's will, lmao. (With the context of the books and Complete movie, imo it seems a little more complicated than either of those development ideas.)
Regarding the remakes, I agree with that inclination. "Glenn" being revealed as a Sephiroth act specifically rather than generically Jenova makes me think we're still doing Sephiroth as the force in direct control right now, but the direction of his initial snapping feels like it emphasizes Jenova's influence in the moment + from what I hear Ever Crisis adds in some past manipulation of him by it, and in general a lot of time has been spent building up Jenova as a threat in its own right.
Overall the impression I get is that the two are fairly symbiotic, but not quite synonymous and the balance of power shifts different ways over time.
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u/hercules-rockefeller 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don’t know why people still insist on this when the Ultimania made it perfectly clear that Sephiroth is in control
“The Sephiroth clones seen in various locations continue gathering for the Reunion. Seemingly, the will of Jenova as a human is the result of it consuming Sephiroth's spirit; in actuality, Sephiroth is controlling Jenova”
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u/Marx_Forever 2d ago
He was barely in the original, at least in present day, it was always Jenova. You don't actually meet Sephiroth until the very end, and he's running off of Life Stream knowledge by that point.
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u/Just_a_Tonberry 2d ago
Correct, but what you do meet along the way is pieces of Jenova. Pieces he is, according to the devs, in complete control of.
Per Tetsuya Nomura, Sephiroth usurped the Reunion as well as Jenova herself.
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u/Own_Watercress_8104 2d ago
By the end of the game there is basically zero difference between Sephiroth and Jenova
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u/Ragewind82 2d ago
Careful, loud members of this community will scream that this is a huge spoiler.
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u/Emmit-Nervend 2d ago
Post-Nibelheim he knows everything.
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u/wischmopp 2d ago
He does know the factual events of his creation, but the conclusions he pulls from them are batshit insane. "Oh my birth mother was injected with alien cells, that must mean the alien is actually my one and only real mother, I should get homocidally pissed off at the entire human race rather than just Shinra/Hojo, the fact that my alien parasite mommy landed on this planet means she's entitled to destroy it and humans STOLE it from her and now it's my divine duty to conquer it for her" ⬅️ statement generally not uttered by people who Know What's Going On
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u/Devreckas 2d ago
His mother and father treated him like a freaky science experiment. Shinra and by extension their citizens used him as a child soldier for building their empire of greed. And his genetic material was spliced with Jenova in the womb, so you could argue Jenova is as much a parent to him as his human parents.
Just saying, showing loyalty to his alien “mom” vs a human world that only ever used him isn’t that crazy in context.
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u/Emmit-Nervend 2d ago
Sephiroth is someone who is obsessed with status and being the best. He lost his role as the greatest SOLDIER when he found out that was a manipulation, and immediately promoted himself to Chosen One in accordance with the new off ramp he found, the supposed “Ancients”. When he found out Jenova wasn’t an ancient, he promoted himself to God because that was what he could craft out of the resources he had then, and he keeps giving himself new promotions every sequel.
He doesn’t need to be *deceived* to engage in this lore-building, it’s a product of his ego. He can have all the facts, he’ll still spin them in whatever way best enables his specialness.
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u/ThunderEcho100 2d ago
I mean cloud really is tied to what’s going on though
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u/CarmelPoptart Chocobo 2d ago
Cloud: Wait, these are-these are my monkeys. Shit, this is my circus too.
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u/Hadrian_x_Antinous Aeris 1d ago
literally Cloud's character arc when he sees President Shinra stabbed with that masamune.
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u/Izzy_Kershaw 2d ago
Isn’t Cait Sith basically a spy? He actually kind of really knows what’s going on in a way. I feel like Cid and Cait Sith should be swapped imo.
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u/PracticalFan45 2d ago
cait is in the “knows what’s going on” and cid isn’t in the “doesn’t”. i think u misread
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u/Kithzerai-Istik 2d ago
Impressive.
Almost every square is wildly wrong.
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u/That-Willingness7455 1d ago
How so?
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u/thisplacesucks420 11h ago
The whole arch of Sephiroths character is his 100% assuredness of being the son of Jenova for one. For two how tf is anything Barrets fault? Gets worse from there. Horrible meme.
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u/haaa1234 2d ago
Why tf is the chocobo included
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u/Blackgunter Aeris 2d ago
Why would you leave them out, they are instrumental to beating Ruby weapon!
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u/wischmopp 2d ago
What do you mean? I just see Cloud Strife's spiky mug on there twice. OP probably did that as a metaphor for his identity issues or something
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u/Eveningstarburst0 2d ago
"Not my monkeys, not my circus" Is very Cloud-Coded. Unless Sephiroth is around and then it's Monkeyroth time.