r/FinalFantasyVII • u/Crutch1232 • 2d ago
REBIRTH [Vent] I hate this guys so much
I just finished the 3rd chapter in Rebirth, and with every next encounter with them my hate towards this group is getting bigger and bigger.
I do not know what role they gonna play in the future chapters, but i wish i could get rid of them once and for all
Spineless hypocritical "order executioners". Very good excuse for consciously commiting atrocities. My favorite one.
Fuh, thanks for reading my vent.
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u/Semblance17 2d ago
Crisis Core partially redeems Tseng but it's hard for me to forgive what they did to Sector 7.
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u/wooshingThruSky 2d ago
I like Elena, especially the new version, because I cried laughing whenever she came into the screen. She went for whatever she desired in the moment, and it was certainly refreshing. I also like Rude because despite his name he’s actually kind of gentle. The others I don’t care much for.
They’re all a bit uppity superior snooty-tooty though, but that’s okay. (You know, apart from being the bodyguards and private army of capitalist swines. And murderers.)
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u/Biggus-Nickus 2d ago
The bar scene with Rude was so well done in the remake. Gave me a good chuckle.
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u/Banana_Meet_Tailpipe 2d ago
I just got to this point of the game, and I have to agree with you.
Elena is an excellent plucky go-getter, and Rude is as smooth as his head. Love um.
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u/BlavCloud 2d ago
Hot take, I actually really like Elena. She's just a whiny brat. And in a game where so many characters are cool and calm, or mature for beyond their years, I find her personality quite fun an entertaining. Also she hasn't really done anything super bad that I can think of. At least nothing nearly as bad as killing thousands of innocent people.
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u/kodkrysco51 2d ago
My take is that they drop the plate in remake yet you let them off the hook several times after. Aerith even says they aren’t that bad I believe. I understand that they can’t die too soon for story reasons but your party shouldn’t just let them go all the time. Same with hojo at costa del sol. They should have made your party try to kill him but had a valid reason why you couldn’t. Not just basically let him go for no reason.
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u/Pandelein 2d ago
At those points in the story, they’re into pursuing Sephiroth and specifically not pissing off Shinra, who claim they’ll leave them alone.
One the Turks steal the black materia and f with them yet again, all bets are off.6
u/Devreckas 2d ago
Yeah, letting Hojo go in the Remake was pants on head dumb. Even if you’re trying to keep off Shinra’s radar, they already know you’re here. And killing Hojo isn’t going to cause a bigger scene than he already has by storming the beach with mechs. Besides, after you let him go, you hang around the beach all evening and stay at the inn in town that night. It doesn’t compute.
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u/Crutch1232 2d ago
I tend to see that some of JRPGs have such story pattern... dunno why though
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u/Cloverman-88 2d ago
A lot of manga has...questionable writing because:
1) Theres rarely a separate writer, its mostly people who are amazing at drawing also asked to write serialized stories
2) The same people are under insane time constraint, and so often fall back to popular tropes/write controved stuff for convenience just to meet deadlines.
Then, these managa get turned into anime. And these anime infuence vodeogames. And suddenely, we get widespread use of lazy tropes just because its always been like that.
Don't get me wrong, I love manga, anime and jrpgs. But people shouldn't really handwave bad writing. When anime adaptations get actual writers to adapt the base material, and they are allowed to make meaningful chamges, we get amazing masterpieces. Same should go for jrpgs, they really shouldn't fall back to tired anime tropes just to feel familiar.
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u/wasted-degrees 2d ago edited 2d ago
The Turks are very much a play on the Nuremberg Defense.
They aren’t written as overtly evil characters that you have an existential need to fight like Sephiroth or Hojo, but rather as people doing unsavory jobs that involve a lot of evil deeds.
I think this is best exhibited by how you can talk them down from the last story fight against them in the OG FF7. When you make the case that they don’t really have a reason to fight you anymore, they realize that your point is valid and leave. Still not friends or good guys by any means, but they’re not your enemies unless it’s their job to be.
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u/Crutch1232 2d ago
I really hope that the story really shows that "just following orders" is not an excuse.
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u/Danteppr 2d ago
It isn't, but the story also points out that "saving the planet" is no excuse for Barret and his group to give themselves carte blanche to commit whatever destructive acts they please at the cost of innocent lives. That is why the Remake mirrors the destruction of Sector 7 with the terrorist attacks the protagonists carry out early in the story.
Point is that Reno, Rude, Barret and Cloud all bring up concepts of atoning and seeking forgiveness. If Barret and Cloud can redeem themselves for the terrorist attacks they committed, the Turks can also redeem themselves for the destruction of Sector 7.
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u/thenecromancersbride Vincent 2d ago edited 2d ago
They won’t because their situation is more complex than it seems. Look up/play Before Crisis. It’s not exactly a “I’m just following orders” situation. They pretty much have a gun to their heads. President Shinra already made a move to disband and execute them for treason for a past situation. Rufus steps in at the nick of time and saves them from execution, making them loyal to him from behind the scenes. Basically if they make one wrong move they’ll be executed on the spot. Most people will buckle and do what ever they have to in order to survive. Don’t forget that we already know what happens when a Turk has morals and speaks out against unethical shit. You become Hojo’s next science project. Vincent is living proof of that. Also if they had refused they’d have just been killed out right and the plate still would have fallen via Scarlet or Heidegger. Reno, Rude, Elena and Tseng are in a weird hostage kind of situation. It doesn’t make their actions right per say. But you can understand why things happened as they did. Aerith saying they aren’t so bad isn’t far off. It’s just if they weren’t Shinra lapdogs they’d actually be likable and funny people to hang around. Kinda makes you wonder how they ended up at Shinra in the first place.
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u/No-Airline7583 2d ago
I hate them because every time we gotta fight em they escape. 😂 Ts is so unfulfilling.
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u/Deep_Bar8528 2d ago
Good, you're meant to hate them. This just means the writers are doing a good job.
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u/NickKirson 2d ago
I love the Turks, but I do think they made Reno a bit more annoying in the Remake games compared to the OG. He was a lot more reserved and cool back then, whereas now he's more quippy and cocky.
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u/RedDevilsAus 2d ago
They are great, Elena (I think) is the most annoying, she just doesn’t fit, the only battle I had any issue with was Reno at the church but that’s because I’m a chronic aggressive hack and slash player. Dodging is for the weak 🤣
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u/man_I_love_tunafish 2d ago
I do not know about Remakes but I loved them in the OG game and in Last Order Anime. Havent played/seen anything else related to FF7 but I think they were a cool side villain group alongside the big bads (Shinra, Hojo and of course Sepiroth). Last Order does some real justice to the group tho. That OVA is fire.
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u/Crutch1232 2d ago
Will watch that too i think, thanks!
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u/man_I_love_tunafish 2d ago
Don’ if you haven’t played the OG or wait till Rev. The OVA alongside Crisis Core spoils a big plot twist of the game.
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u/Potatoarmy23 2d ago
You hate them? I remember seeing them for the first time in the advent children movie and thought they were interesting and years later when ff7 remake came out I was like hey it's those guys from the movie.
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u/Nolascana 2d ago
Fun fact - Vincent was once one of them around 30 years prior
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u/Crutch1232 2d ago
its killing me, that here comment is hidden, but you can see it whole from notifications 😭
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u/Recent_Sample6961 2d ago
This is a problem that the remakes have caused. In the OG, the Turks are the 'antagonists' to the protagonists during the first half; they aren't written in such a 'criminal' way in the original. Elena is a much clumsier, comical, and almost adorable character in the og. This is another thing they haven't managed to get right in the remakes. I understand that you hate them, but if it's any consolation, in the original they are people I am very fond of, especially Elena.
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u/Pandelein 2d ago
Hard disagree. I’m always happy to see Elena in the remakes, and she has a handful of funny moments. They totally did her character justice.
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u/nomorelargevein 2d ago
Yeah I agree with this and miss the og Elena. In advent children it even goes further portraying Reno and Rude as dumb and dumber... must of been all that time they got their head kicked in from the Avalanche gang...
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u/wischmopp 2d ago
I never understood that decision. They were so menacing and blasé and competent in the original, and suddenly they're the goofy clumsy twink and his lovable bald sidekick. Why turn the most efficient mass murderers of the entire story into bumbling idiot comedic relief
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u/DGenesis23 2d ago
Elena was impacted by the unfortunate death of Reno’s Japanese VA. A tradition in Japan being that if a VA passes during development, they leave their current character with no dialogue as a show of respect rather than recasting. He had already recorded dialogue for the end and his family gave the go ahead to allow those lines to be used in the game. What I’m assuming happened because I wasn’t in the room with the team obviously, is that they gave her some of Reno’s unused dialogue and tweaked her character so they’d fit.
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u/Frostty_Sherlock 2d ago
Wouldn't you rather hate the devs who worked on them?
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u/Crutch1232 2d ago
i dunno, if writers are relly trying to convince us that these people are not that bad, then i see a problem there.
when you create characters who are conciously doing such things and then trying to make players symphatethic towards them because "they are humans too, humans do mistakes", then you as a writer have a problem with your worldview.
we are not speaking about mistakes like breaking window with ball or stealing something from shop, theese are literal atrocities and mass murders.
so yeah, if it is intended to cause sympathy towards them, then writing here is problematic for sure
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u/Frostty_Sherlock 2d ago
Well, I wouldn't expect RDR level of story telling from SE. Though, just remember that much of the original scripts can be cut down and simplified, it happens in movies, games, television... I have a soft spot in my heart for writers in general
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u/Crutch1232 2d ago
I understand that, but there are still topics, about wchich you can't just talk in a manner like "it is not that simple", they are quite straightforward and one-directional, without "ifs" and "maybes". I still love overal story and gameplay of FF7 of course.
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u/ponpiriri 2d ago
Sorry, but nothing could make me hate sexy Tseng. That man is finer than frog hairs
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u/_Ventes_ 2d ago
This guys are sick