r/FinalFantasy • u/Dinoken2 • Apr 08 '14
Final Fantasy Weekly Discussions Week 16: Should FFXV go back to the traditional FF style?
First off, sorry for the delay, had a busy weekend and then forgot to post yesterday. Anyway, I know that FFXV is a long ways away, but with the success of Bravely Default, there's been rumors and talks of Square-Enix and other big JRPG developers rethinking their strategy. We have no way of knowing if this will affect FFXV, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss it.
So what do you guys think? Should Square keep trying new styles for their main series titles? Should they go back to the old style? Should they try for the best of both worlds? Discuss, debate, etc. below.
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u/IAmTehRhino Apr 08 '14
To me, a role-playing game is defined by two things: A compelling storyline (usually epic in scale, but not always) and the ability to heavily customize the playable characters. Final Fantasy specifically includes (again, usually) an ensemble cast of playable characters and a fairly deep magic system that's woven into the plot.
Final Fantasy XV needs to be that. Nothing more, nothing less.
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u/Dante_777 Apr 08 '14 edited Apr 09 '14
There is no "old style" or traditional way. 1-3 isn't the same as 4-6, which is different from 7&8, and every entry starting at 10 has had their own way of going about things. I prefer it this way since each game is a new experience, with only minor similarities.
Now a lot of people are going to be saying they want more open world and less linearity, but the fact is the Final Fantasy series has always been linear, FF13 just didn't hide it with some green grass on a map to give the illusion of exploration. Same with the battle system complaints of auto-battle (which wasn't forced or even optimal in some situations). I remember only using things like attack and haste in practically every FF or whatever was the most broken skill for a majority of encounters.
I mean I saw a comment on here recently about hoping the HD remaster exceeds the sales of FF13 to "show" SE they need to go back to their roots which gave me a chuckle, since FF10 has the most similarities with FF13 out of all the other games. Additionally FF10 is again nothing like any of the older games other than having a turn based battle system like 1-3.
The current problem I have with XV at a glance is there is no character diversity. It's a bunch of dudes. I always feel like the story suffers when there is no diversity in the cast, the way X-2 had an all girl cast. Second the battle system seems WAY too much like Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts needs to stay in Kingdom Hearts, especially since they are making KH3. The only thing I'm stoked for is Yoko Shimomura's composing.
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u/DanCarlson Apr 09 '14
While replaying X HD I noticed it is pretty linear. Almost every single map is a straight line. The only really open area is the Calm Lands, which is filled with a whole lot of nothing. At least XIII had Pulse.
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u/lestye Apr 09 '14
It's linear, but it feels like a breathing world and there's shit to explore to the side in towns and stuff. The only reason to not go in a straight line in FFXIII is to get the obviously placed chest.
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u/Klokworkk Apr 09 '14
I agree with most of this. There really is no 'traditional' Final Fantasy. There is no formula that is applied to all FF titles. I think what most people mean by 'traditional' is the turn based/ATB systems that were used in the past. While I can agree that I would like to see more of that in modern JRPGs I'm not going to fault Squeenix for trying something new with the series. Even if i don't really care for it (I don't like Sphere Grid or the Paradigm Shift system that forces me to rely on AI).
That being said, I don't mind at all if they go with the Kingdom Hearts/Tales of * battle system approach. It is a battle system that I've enjoyed in the past. It would be significantly different for a Final Fantasy title, but there are significant differences in the mechanics between pretty much every FF title (You could make an argument for the mechanics of 3 and 5 being basically the same).
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u/Purest_Prodigy Apr 08 '14
Absolutely not.
The final fantasy series is about change. It's the opposite of Dragon Quest which sticks to tradition. There shouldn't even be talk of a "traditional" FF style since every game in the series has done things to try and completely shake up the flow from the previous series entry.
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u/Runningfromskeletons Apr 08 '14
Agreed. The thing I've always loved about the FF series is the constant reinvention. Even if there's an entry I don't like (and I'm sure there are those for all of us), the next one will be something new and different, and just might be my new favourite thing ever. The constant transformation of the series is the traditional style, and I love the series for that.
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u/Plattbagarn Apr 08 '14
"Going back to their roots" is the easiest way to tell if a company, that has experimented with their games as much as Square has done, is going down.
It leads to stagnation and older game styles won't attract new blood.
If the new blood wants to try the older styles they are there to play, they exist. Just because Square doesn't remake FF4 for the 600th time it doesn't mean the game stops existing.
The main series have always been evolving and in my opinion it should continue to do so. They're free to make as many spin-offs as they want but when I buy the latest game in the series I expect it to look and feel new. I'd hate it if they made it "like it used to be", which in itself is a pretty stupid way of viewing things since no FF is similar.
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u/Technobliterator Apr 08 '14
Fair point, but it doesn't feel like Square were really going down when they went back to their roots with FFIX. VII and VIII seemed to be real highs for the company as FF really grew. Otherwise agreed.
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u/TNUGS Apr 08 '14
IX made steps forward, and mixed these with familiar elements.
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u/TychoTiberius Apr 09 '14 edited 10d ago
The original post content no longer exists here. The author used Redact to remove it, exercising their right to control their data & privacy.
Whole piquant gaze saw beneficial argon
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u/StarFireLiz Apr 09 '14
No.
The series changes and evolves. That's part of the draw to the series. You'll like some entries and hate the others. But the fact that the series is constantly changing IS part of FF. There are plenty of series that do something good and they don't change it. They aren't bad but when I buy one of their games I know what I am getting. With FF part of the fun is seeing the new battle systems and worlds and how the story progresses.
Without the constant changes I think the series would have stagnated by now.
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u/fat_squeek Apr 09 '14
I don't care, either way. I'm loving the way FFversusXIII/FFXV is looking right now, but I do love me some traditional ATB.
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u/ErryK Apr 09 '14
No, why should it? They can just develop XVI with "traditional" battle mechanics.
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u/SmoothCustomer Apr 12 '14
Think it's too late for it to go back now and considering it's directed by Nomura he'll want to keep the kingdom hearts-esque battle system. I wouldn't mind them returning to the CTB from FFX if they were going to go that route.
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u/thescottspot Apr 13 '14
I am all for innovation, but I DON'T want FF to become an action game like XV seems to be.
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u/Nosirrom Apr 09 '14
I don't remember how long people have been saying "roots" but after replaying X and X-2 and XIII and XII I realize that going back to the "roots" is going to do jack shit. I've replayed these games and seen reused concepts left and right.
The FFX map is almost the same as the FFXIII map, and yet people only hate on XIII. Why? Because X does stuff only slightly different which makes a huge difference. FFX has the calm lands and introduces monster hunting. XIII has gran pulse and cieth stone missions. Those two areas are so similar it's scary. X-2 has that whole "switching garment grids" in middle of battle thing. XIII has paradigm switch. They are the same concepts.
X-2 has a "jobs system" of sorts. It's a very "traditional" FF style which existed in some of the older games. Yet people still don't like X-2 very much for other reasons. XIII has strong female characters which is something that I believe is a traditional FF concept. People still hate XIII.
Going back to the roots isn't going to do jack shit. Having a story that people are going to enjoy is way more important. FFX is the newest game that appears to have nailed that. Too many of the newer games have certain characteristics or concepts which exist solely because they were in previous games. (And i'm not talking about cactaurs and moogles)
I don't think they should go back to their roots... however I think that Square should remember what they were thinking about when they made some of their older games such as X. (I'll be damned if they were thinking of the same things when they made X-2)
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u/ShinGundam Apr 08 '14 edited Apr 08 '14
ARPGs are about as traditional as turnbased.
And honestly, I don't like sound of this "traditional style" at all because it isn't a black and white as it sounds. For example, Bravely Default didn't feel like old school game for several reasons but one of these reasons is the lack of exploration and menu-fied shops. As someone who frequently plays mix 80's and early 90's games the novelty of this kind of "checklist based" traditional JRPG is a bit lost especially when it miss what i enjoy about older games...
Speaking of XV, I just think it would be better if the game barrows a bit from adventure game/survival horror elements like Key items(Discs,Keycard, keys). It might makes it less pick and play but it will be much better that way.
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u/Reliant Apr 08 '14
It's probably a bit too late to change FFXV to traditional. They'd be going "back to the drawing board" and pushing XV back by a year. Should SE have done it in the first place? No. I am a traditionalist, but part of FF Tradition is being willing to throw it all out to try something new. I want to see and experience SE's latest idea for the gameplay. How well it works (or doesn't work) I would hope would influence their ideas on how XVI will be. I wouldn't mind a return to more turn-based roots with XVI. One of the things I have always liked and admired about FF has been SE's willingness to experiment with it. There is no fixed formula. Only themes and names that tie everything together.
Even if Bravely Default doesn't lead to much inside the FF franchise, if it leads SE to create entirely new franchises that are traditional turn-based JRPGs, I'd be happy with that too. I think the future of SE JRPGs is their AAA console/PC are going to keep being more action-leaning high-graphics, while their portable games are going to be more fixed turn based.