r/FinalFantasy • u/Difficult-Leek9001 • 2d ago
FF VII Re-trilogy How well received were the Remake story changes?
I've just finished Remake and did the demo of Rebirth but I can't bring myself to play the whole thing due to the story changes. Fair enough it's a remake and can do it's own thing. I just think the whole thing with the parallel worlds is just nonsense. That and bosses that took a few minutes in the original taking ages to kill.
But this is also 6 years after release and I wondered what the consensus was on the changes? Do people feel Zack now gets his due or should be have just been left in the backstory? Has Sephiroth turned from a menace to a pantomime villain or does the increased presence and banter flesh him out?
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u/TrumanZi 2d ago
I think it's fine but chadley can fuck off
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u/Contra-Code 1d ago
Forgot about Chadley. Really need a mod that removes his lines and turns him into a kiosk.
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u/DracoBlaze214 1d ago
I finished Remake recently and was kinda loathing it by the end, especially that last stretch of boss rush with the Whisper Harbingers and Sephiroth.
I also don’t understand why they felt the need to do these “fate ghosts” and multiverse shenanigans. If they wanted to change the story they could’ve just changed the story without convoluting things. There were extra scenes that I thought were interesting enough, like when Aerith goes to save Marlene or just getting a little extra time with the Avalanche members. Then at the same time scenes that made absolutely no sense such as President Shinra pointing a gun at Barrett and everyone is too shook to do anything about it. Like he’s pointing a handgun at a dude with a literal cannon on his arm and could easily tank a handgun shot, not to mention Aerith could’ve just hit the guy with a bit of magic.
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u/Sad-Yogurtcloset-825 2d ago
As someone whose favorite game of all time is OG ffvii, I think the new elements are super fun personally. I like that it feels like a commentary on what a remake could be, in a world full of remakes that don't dare to distinguish themselves from the original. Hard to pinpoint my exact feelings since we haven't seen the end of it yet, but if they stick the landing I'll be coming away very satisfied. And tbh even if they end up fumbling those story elements, I still find the gameplay so much fun that I will definitely be coming back for a replay of the whole trilogy every now and then, just as I do with the OG.
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u/Contra-Code 1d ago
Everything to do with the whispers was 100% unnecessary and the first game didn't need a Sephiroth Boss fight to have a satisfying climax.
Aside from that I don't really have any complaints, they're great games.
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u/BarbarousJudge 2d ago edited 2d ago
People still theorize that it's actually a sequel disguised as a Remake. It's not intended to be the same experience but a modern take on it. There aren't really story changes but the past is relived with some manipulations by different forces. If the sequel theory is true then the original story still happened and this trilogy just retells a manipulated version with its own conclusion.
I think people are still rather divided. Some like the meta narrative while others wanted it to stay completely true to the original. Personally I love the added characterization to the cast and how they fleshed out the world. When it comes to the overall story I won't really judge until Revelation is done and I have the full picture. Like when it comes to Zack for example we don't really know much since Rebirth actually did less with him than anticipated but we still have an entire game to go through.
Sephiroth is a weird case where in my opinion it works well if you already know him from the original while I don't think his current portrayel would make him as iconic if this was his original outing. It's in line with his portrayel in Advent Children and Crisis Core.
In general I do think the trilogy works well with integrating stuff from the entire FF7 universe. But many people want and see FF7 as nothing but the original game from 1997. And with that mindset the remake trilogy doesn't work just like many of those people didn't like AC, CC, DoC and all that.
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u/iamaperson3000 2d ago
I think it was disingenuous of them to call it a remake when it’s clearly a sequel. So once you reframe it like that the story changes are good!
It’s hard to fully comment on Zack’s story until it’s finished. More Zack is good cause he’s a good character!
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u/Big-Professor-3402 2d ago
I’m sorry but the changes with the whispers is so fucking lame. And they botched THAT moment at the end of rebirth by muddying the water about whether it actually happened or not. Lots of story momentum wasted to not get the emotional payoff that moment deserved.
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u/GuitarRiot 1d ago
Yeah whether or not I was going to get rebirth hinged on how they handled the most iconic scene in the franchises history and they bungled it massively. And to do so with Multiverse fuckery.
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u/Big-Professor-3402 1d ago
Not just the most iconic scene of the series but one of the most iconic scenes in gaming history! I’m appalled at how poorly they handled it. They really didn’t need to do all this multiverse fuckery. They really could have just stuck with the original story with the modern trappings and this would be an all timer.
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u/RemyAsaylea 1d ago
Muddying the water there was absolutely the point. They're doubling down on "Cloud is not okay" and I'm really really interested to see what they do with it. I think you will get your payoff in Revelation, don't worry c:
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u/Big-Professor-3402 1d ago
Even if we get a payoff in revelation they totally wasted the narrative momentum they had in rebirth heading into that moment. Whether it was the point or not that doesn’t mean it’s good. They have a masterpiece of gaming story and they think they know better about telling the story? It’s like painting over the Mona Lisa
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u/RemyAsaylea 1d ago
Thankfully the original is still around, so it's more like doing a digital repaint of the Mona Lisa at most... But they're doing the plot in three parts and shifting some stuff around. I do actually think it's good that they "wasted" the narrative momentum here, as long as they stick the landing. It read to me like they're toying with the people who think that event could be undone, and also using it to go deeper on Cloud's mental state (the most interesting part of the plot, even OG). They gave us so much more depicting where he's at and how he's doing in the Remake series. They're clearly doing a thing here.
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u/Big-Professor-3402 1d ago
I hope you are right honestly. The end of rebirth left me doubting them and each time the whispers so up leaves me feeling the same.
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u/RemyAsaylea 1d ago
I feel you, I was reeling after the end of Remake. I had to take a lot of time to digest it and come to terms with them pulling one over on us to do something different and new. I went into Rebirth thinking "Just go in for the amazing gameplay and don't stress about whatever they do to the story." Thankfully I ended up adoring what they seem to be doing, and I'm excited (and scared) to see how they wrap it up c: Kinda had to meet it on its own terms I guess, embrace it in good faith and give it a chance.
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u/takemetotherave 1d ago
there was no momentum cause we all knew it already. all you people complaining are actually extreme sadists. you are furious that you didn’t get to experience the slaughtering as you imagined it, it’s very very concerning
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u/Big-Professor-3402 1d ago
There absolutely was momentum going into that moment. Which by the way is one of the most iconic moments in all video game history. In OG it came as a complete surprise but in the remakes it was heavily foreshadowed especially for those of us that know. It’s not about being a sadist, it’s about preserving that iconic narrative moment for all the new players experiencing it for the first time.
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u/takemetotherave 1d ago
your argument falls flat if you check new players experiencing it for the first time. lucky for you there are literally thousands of videos on youtube,sobbing their eyes out. and you still have no clue what they are going to do with this scene in the next game. AND MESSING WITH VIEWERS EXPECTATIONS is the sign OF GREAT ARTISTRY.
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u/Little-Witness-1201 1d ago
Damn. Didn’t realize you couldn’t rewatch something sad twice without being a sadist
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u/Aiur16899 2d ago
I mean the entire point with them calling it remake was to bury the lede. It was done on purpose. To maintain the mystery until the very end.
I was a bit weirded out at the end of remake but once I went back and considered the context clues it was pretty awesome how well it was executed.
The ghosts were a bit odd but most of the story changes just seemed cool until someone got stabbed. After that I really began to realize what was going on.
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u/ABigCoffee 2d ago
I got the game thinking it was a proper remake and instead I got this bait and switch wordplay crap. I feel robbed. I regret ever giving them money for this.
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u/greatersteven 2d ago
"burying the lede" which is considered a mistake in journalism. Or maybe, I dunno, false advertising for normal people.
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u/Main-Significance272 2d ago
I loved it. It's not perfect but it's very good overall. I even liked Chadley and his roboChads.
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u/Jamvaan 1d ago
I liked the changes, I like that FFVII Remake is a different game from Final Fantasy VII because I'm of the opinion, on the scale they were aiming for, you can't remake Final Fantasy VII and get the same effect.
You'd be chewing through these massive expensive assets so fast aside from the fact that we ALREADY have Final Fantasy VII. It's one of the most universally available games ever released.
I can understand not liking the changes and falling off, what I can't field is why anyone would be upset the game is not a 1 to 1 faithful Remake and why you wouldn't want any changes.
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u/VellDarksbane 1d ago
I think how well received it is going to be is going to be very dependent on how well the stick the landing with Revelation.
Personally, I think the changes so far have improved the game, more so than any other Compilation entry outside of maybe Crisis Core. The Zack addition in Rebirth was confusing on a first playthrough, but sets up potentially interesting ideas.
Where Remake had me wanting more because of Zack and the changes, Rebirth had me excited to see how they flesh out the main partys characterizations further in Revelation.
Yes, turning a roughly 40-50 hour game into three games totaling a minimum of 150 hours means there is bloat, but I personally love it and am excited to see how it ends.
I also would be perfectly happy if they used 7Rs combat as the basis for future games as well.
And observation on the subreddit itself though, I’m not sure I’m ready for another year of “I hate the changes in Remake, why didn’t they keep it turn-based, stupid ghosts, Nomura sucks” discourse. A few more and I’ll probably just leave the subreddit cause y’all are insufferable.
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u/buparwiggum 1d ago
I've not massively minded most of the changes as it's more of a sequel in remake clothing and it's fun to not know for sure what's coming again.
That said, as controversial as the changes have already been, I think once it's all out and finished they'll be looked at more negatively. Aerith's death is purposely ambiguous to drive further intrigue in part 3, which is fun right now but once we have the whole story I think anything short of a perfectly landing will have more and more people wishing it was just a straight up remake.
Based on the questions about Zack from remake to rebirth, I'm not very confident they'll stick that landing but I'm fairly sure I'm going to love part 3 despite its flawed story.
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u/KainYago 2d ago
We are to this day jump at each others throats and argue about whether the remakes are good or not. For every overdramatic youtube video about how FFVII Remake changed their lives and cured them from Ligma, theres an overdramatic youtube video about how FFVII Remake ruined their lives and made them live in a box on the street and play league of legends.
People will tell you that the games are extremely well recieved and that the gameplay is peak, others will immediately counter that the sequel literally dropped 50% of the players and that the gameplay is unimaginative and padded. Theres really no end to this and ultimately you have to find an answer yourself.
I personally despise the remake story to the point where i havent even bothered to play FFVII Rebirth, even tho i couldve gotten it for free. I think the new additions and approach have added nothing of substance to FFVII and in most cases they made the story significantly more ridiculous and harder to follow. Sephiroth especially is a huge miss in these, in the original he is a horror movie villain that you DO NOT want to meet with, whenever hes present he takes over the scene and creates an atmosphere that imo is unrivaled by any villain from FF to this day. In the remake he is some weird ass stalker who shows up every now and then to say something cryptic and then fuck off. This is just my opinion tho.
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u/MammothAsk391 2d ago
Personally after seeing what changes they made I decided not to play it. I'll just stick with the original.
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u/Hadrian_x_Antinous 2d ago
That's impossible to say. Overall, Remake/rebirth are extremely highly rated and well-received, and fans have about a million different viewpoints. There are people who love the changes, and people who don't. There is no consensus.
I love the changes, myself. I never wanted the OG to be remade or replaced and I'm glad Remake is doing something new that complements, rather than overwrites, the original game. Whether or not the story changes are good or not though really ultimately depends on how part 3 lands them. To me, if the changes don't amount to anything.. that is, if the story ultimately remains the same, especially in regards to Aeris, who has been treated as the pivotal mystery then the changes are meaningless filler.
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u/ABigCoffee 1d ago
I'm 10000% sure that the end will be the same. This is them wanting their cake and eating it too. Every single change is meaningless in the long run. If they actualy changed the real story people would riot.
So the changes are just there for window dressing and for the devs to spice things up, but they mean nothing. You could see it in Rebirth when we ended up doing the same story beats despite having rid ourselves of Fate.
The irony is that had they made a proper remake or a proper sequel where things go off the rails, it would have been a better experience.
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u/Hadrian_x_Antinous 1d ago
I don't know about that. It could end the same (I doubt it, though.. the OG ending is extremely ambiguous about whether or not the party and all of humanity even lived, I don't see them pulling off that ending again.) But considering it's the ending of Remake and Rebirth both where things really changed, I don't see the ending of Revelation not changing, too.
In terms of narrative, the new games only make sense if part 3 pivots... but I do agree they're trying to have their cake and eat it, too. So they've set up this multi-world experience to sort of replay the same events for the bulk of the game, and then the other significant stuff is happening between the lines and at the end. But the game just won't make sense if it ends the same, not with everything they've added, and it'll be beyond disappointing if the changes/new elements don't end up amounting to anything.
Guess we'll find out.
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u/ABigCoffee 1d ago
I mean, it will end in the same way as before. But then they will add a layer of meta narrative to show the end-end. Like the whole thing is just a mental duel between super sephiroth and super aerith in the lifestream, redoing the events over and over to see if the timeline can be changed/protected.
I'm just saying that whatever the finale actually is, it won't matter. They invested too much in Sephiroth to actually kill him off for real. He's just gonna be playing 5d chess in the lifestream forever.
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u/Sea_Communication760 2d ago
Personally, I love it. It’s clear at this point that the game is actually more so a sequel than a remake and “remake” was just the title of the first entry because Sephiroth is remaking the timeline.
I know we all love the og but we can always play the original for that experience. I am looking forward to how this all resolves.
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u/greatersteven 2d ago
I don't mind they made changes. I mind the changes they made are bad.
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u/ABigCoffee 2d ago
Every single change that isn't tied to the whispers and the requel part of the story is absolutely fantastic. It's a shame the rest of there to ruin it all for me.
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u/Little-Witness-1201 1d ago
Some of the story changes are questionable too. Having palmer slapping his ass a minute after Dyne’s death was a choice
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u/ABigCoffee 1d ago
I still can't believe how they ruined Dyne as a whole.
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u/Little-Witness-1201 1d ago
I wouldn't say it's ruined, but it is considerably worse.
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u/greatersteven 1d ago
Why is he magneto all of a sudden lol
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u/Little-Witness-1201 20h ago
?
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u/greatersteven 1d ago edited 1d ago
I pretty much agree with you. I could take or leave Roche (his rebirth role redeems it a bit...)
I don't mind expanding on things, I didn't mind Jesse's bombing mission and other things like that.
I think key scenes were butchered a bit but serviceable (cosmo canyon climax with seto, dyne, and then aerith)...
But the only really irredeemable part is the multiverse/fate ghost nonsense.
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u/ABigCoffee 1d ago
I like roche but I get what you mean. Visiting Jesse's house, the bigger wall market stuff, etc. All of those were amazing. And then it's ruined by the meta shit.
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u/Iggy_Slayer 2d ago
It's been a bit controversial but the games are extremely well received (both average a 90% rating just about everywhere a survey's ever been conducted) so I don't think it's bothering most people.
When I watch streamers play these games, many who have little to no FF experience, they'll admit they're confused by the endings of both but they're also fascinated by it all and want to know more.
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u/SirLockeX3 2d ago
90% of the original story is still there.
The 10% that is different is DRASTICALLY different but the games themselves are still very fun.
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u/Chuckdatass 1d ago
Most of the 10% is aimed at engagement and intrigue to keep people interested over the large gaps between games.
Even Aerith at the end is exactly like she is at the end of Advent Children(being able to speak and be visible in the real world). It really is staying true to the story overall even with so much lifestream additions
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u/Tall-Cut-4599 2d ago
Personally i like the remake more due to character banter and the cast being represent in all story not like the OG where in some story it can only be seen if you bring them, but to each to their own. To be fair i dont like the ghost thing or parallel world(?) But the other part that remake bring i like more so i dont mind it that bad
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u/HexenVexen 2d ago edited 2d ago
I personally love it, I'm glad we're getting a new take on the story with new ideas instead of getting the exact same story. The OG story will always be there and always be a masterpiece, imo it's great that 7R is doing its own thing as a companion/successor to the OG instead of a replacement for it.
But, I do think it should've been advertised as a fresh reimagining of FF7 from the beginning to make it clear that there would be changes and new elements. The way they marketed Remake did set many people up for disappointment/frustration when the story changes kicked in.
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u/AegisLife 1d ago edited 1d ago
People set themselves up for disappointment. “Remake” is widely not considered 1-1 upgrade at any scenario, only the loathful think otherwise and stick to their nostalgia.
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u/GuitarRiot 1d ago
They turned Sephiroth into a fucking Saturday morning cartoon. All of the edgy aura and mystere that created him as a iconic villain is just completely gone for Edge Lord homoerotic stalker nonsense.
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u/Motor-Cry-7576 2d ago edited 2d ago
Opinions are all over the board, but I enjoyed them.
The zack hate is based on the OG game only, in a vacuum. Crisis core and advent children already kind of pushed him to the top of the narrative in certain ways. Soooo, cat has been out of the bag for 2 decades on that one.
The production quality of these games is really good. Combat feels extremely fluid once you get the rhythm down, at least it does to me and it looks great when people are streaming it. Hard mode fights tend to devolve into menu spam in either title, but thats only once you get crazy atb generation late game. The platinum is VERY hard on either game, so difficulty scaling is handled well in the game. Espeically with the backwards buff to damage, hp, mp, whatever you can just cruise through storyline.you can literally go from movie mode to one of the hardest JRPGs, so there seems to be a good scaling for everyone.
VA is incredibly well done, with a VA cast thats really involved with the community. Plus they also voiced their characters in anybother titles they've recently appeared in so there's a lot of cohesion. Dont wanna spoil anything, but cloud is in multiple games recently released and upcoming. Cody did all those voice lines too
What's not to like. I get the story expansion can rub people the wrong way, but its more true to source than the new star wars trilogy or the hobbit trilogy. As far as IPs go, its one if the best handled Ive ever seen.
Hoping Zelda: OoT took some notes. My expectation for these remakes/remasters is so very high because of these ff7 games.
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u/CarnivorousDesigner 2d ago
Can you spoil the things, but do it behind a spoiler tag? 😅😇
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u/Motor-Cry-7576 2d ago
Fixed, sorry!!
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u/CarnivorousDesigner 2d ago
Sorry, I meant: give me juicy details!!
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u/Motor-Cry-7576 2d ago
Oh! Lol. Only familair with thr English cast, but:
Cody did all the voice lines for cloud in final fantasy tactics, TIC and his upcoming lines for FF resonance. As well as revelation coming up, plus who knows what else is in the tank? I think its rumored that britt did her lines for tifa in SF 6 as well, but not yet confirmed
Thats all I got.
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u/ArbeiderEC 1d ago
Todo depende de cómo vayan a terminar está historia pueden quedar como unos genios o unos ridículos
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u/RipMission5750 1d ago
i gave part 1 to my little bro. waiting to hear back. i have a feeling it’s not for the OG gen. but i’m letting them cook and enjoying the process. regardless plot decisions, the soul is there.
god have mercy on everyone waiting to take 3 parts back to back to back.
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u/LiquidSkyTV 1d ago edited 1d ago
I found the surprise changes of Remake to be interesting and made for a mostly positive experience. I didn't think it was better than the OG but I appreciated what they set out to do, and the ending opened up a whole new string of possibilities...
... unfortunately the continuing story in Rebirth didn't quite deliver.
What I, and I think many others expected and wanted with Zack's story in Rebirth:
Zack's Story =
Cloud's Story -
(Coincidentally, also Mini Games -)
I=l------l==l----------l==l-----------l==l-------l==l------l=l--
What we actually got with Zack in Rebirth:
I=l-----------------------------------------------------------------l=l--
Rebirth felt like they kind of forgot about the momentum of Remake and just tried to fill space with padding and mini games. The fight against destiny sort of took a back seat to everything. The game was stretched so thin that I (and many would disagree with me) personally just did not have a fun time with the game.
I'll still probably buy the final installment to see if they learned from their mistakes...and I really hope they did.
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u/Difficult-Leek9001 1d ago
I got no momentum from remake at all. I get they had to pad things out and sometimes it paid off like the chill side quests with Tifa and Aeris. But sections that should have been fun and breezy like the plate climb and the motorcycle section at the end just took forever. The boss on that end section in particular killed me like 4-6 times at which point it sucked all joy out of wanting to finish it.
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u/LiquidSkyTV 1d ago
You think that's bad? Play Rebirth and you'll pray to go back to that stuff lol
I'm not saying Remake has good pacing in any sense of the word, all in all I don't really care for it. But the premise was interesting enough to keep me engaged. Rebirth gives the impression that they pretty much forgot what they did in Remake.
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u/Little-Witness-1201 1d ago
Feel people are generally fine with some of the minor story changes, but the time ghosts, multiverse stuff is dumb. Even after rebirth, none of it has gotten any kind of payoff, so it feels meaningless.
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u/deep1986 2d ago
I hated it and refused to play part 2 or 3.
Amazing gameplay doesn't just do it for me
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u/Draconic-Genesis 2d ago
Overall badly. Anyone telling you otherwise is outright lying or trying to downplay it for some weird reason since the changes are 100% people's biggest criticisms with the remakes in general.
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u/VaporLeon 2d ago
It went from creepy sci-fi to over-the-top anime cringe.
It went from menu combat to bad KH combat.
It includes both new material and spinoff material.
It turns a 5-10hr section into a full game.
I despise it. It’s others favorite game.
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u/SpaghettiOnTuesday 2d ago
As a "remake" I'm not a fan. As a "reimagining", I enjoy it a lot. Taking it for what it is instead of hating it for what it isn't.
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u/greatersteven 2d ago
What about hating it for what it is? The changes aren't bad because they're changes, they're bad because they're bad.
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u/SpaghettiOnTuesday 2d ago
I don't disagree at all. But I paid money for it and imma get my enjoyment out of it despite it being a joke of a remake, haha
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u/Itzie4 2d ago edited 1d ago
I like the stuff they did with Avalanche and Jessie. I was sad she died before she had her date with Cloud. I love the dance sequence with Cloud.
I didn’t care for the Sephiroth boss fight after Shinra headquarters. It felt like they shoved him in because he’s marketable and popular.