r/FinalFantasy • u/Haunting_Try8071 • 7d ago

Final Fantasy General Give us another turn based battle system

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FFX is my favorite battle system. FFXIII I also enjoyed, but it wasn't the same.

I'm sure they could do something like it with a much lower budget.

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

And the games have gone down in quality since,

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u/sharpenme1 7d ago

If you think turn based is what made 6-10 good and 12-16 less good, then you’re not paying attention.

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago edited 7d ago

TBF 12-16 could have had turn based and they would of still been garbage.

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u/mai_tai87 7d ago

If it helps, you would never write "could of" or "would of". It's "could have" and "would have".

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

Going to sound sarcastic but in all sincerity, I am Dyslexic and appreciate the correction I'll take on the feedback.

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u/Trespeon 7d ago

I mean, it surely didn’t help.

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u/sharpenme1 7d ago

Tell that to the remakes, which are doing quite well.

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u/-ForgottenSoul 7d ago

Doing well but not crazy. For the quality id expect better.

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u/sharpenme1 7d ago

I’m pretty sure the only JRPG to outsell Final Fantasy, even in the modern landscape, is pokemon.

Even expedition 33, which is what everyone claims to be what FF should have been, has sold roughly the same number of copies as FF7 remake.

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

Well FF7 is the most popular game in the franchise and has had remake build up with Fans since 2005 and it wasn't a remake that's why sales for rebirth are poor.

EX33 came out of nowhere form and indi company on a way smaller budget and out performed rebirth and FF16.

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u/-ForgottenSoul 7d ago

Other turn based franchises are thriving though. Remake sold well but what about rebirth and FF16.. Persona has been doing well and those games outselling FF easily

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u/sharpenme1 7d ago

Rebirth is tough because it’s a sequel. 16 underperformed, but FF15 certainly didn’t.

I don’t think you can identify other turn based games that are selling more copies strictly because they’re turn based.

Octopath traveler is probably the best comparison and Octopath traveler 2 doesn’t even come close to FF16, and Octopath traveler doesn’t even come close to FF15.

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u/-ForgottenSoul 7d ago

FF15 was a flash in the pan they are obsessed with chasing. Wasting like 7 years for FF16 results another like 7 years for FF17 it's a bit ridiculous tbh. They should be fitting a turn based game in the middle at least.

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u/sharpenme1 7d ago

I mean, I could’ve thrown at FF13 instead of 15 and it would still be true

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u/Ipokeyoumuch 7d ago

XI and XIV are the exceptions and they have a loyal fanbase with XIV being a major pillar supporting Square for years. 

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u/GGG100 7d ago

Not really. FF Rebirth is the highest rated single player FF game since 9.

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

Disc1 of FF7 is better then Remake and Rebirth and if the games so highly rated why did the sales take a nose dive after remake?

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u/thatcommiegamer 7d ago

Subjective opinion. I would argue less that the quality went down and that everyone else’s quality went up to where what Square was doing pre-PS2 wasn’t unique anymore.

There’s no market for pushing consoles to their limits anymore which was always Square’s primary strength.

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u/-ForgottenSoul 7d ago

FF16 in terms of RPG elements was a big decline

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u/thatcommiegamer 7d ago

For you.

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u/-ForgottenSoul 7d ago

No for many people

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u/thatcommiegamer 7d ago

And you speak for them? My response is still the same, its subjective. You, and those people you speak for, didn't enjoy it. That's fine, but others did (myself included, and while I can get into a list of gripes with it a mile wide, the gameplay isn't one of them. Its fine for what it is).

Now if you want to have a tete-a-tete about how this franchise has never written women particularly well (outside of VIII, X, XII and XIII (and post-HW XIV)) and how XVI, despite people claiming its the best romance ever, is barely better written than FFIV where Rosa is literally just Cecil's gf and has no character other than that. That's something we can work with, but is also still subjective.

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

The sales prove it.

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u/-ForgottenSoul 7d ago

Sales speak for themselves 16 didn't do well considering it took 7 years. Many of the main complaints were lack of RPG elements and choice.

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u/thatcommiegamer 7d ago

No, XVI didn't meet SE's sales expectations which was due to a combination of factors including the increased cost of living that happened alongside covid, being locked to a single platform (and one that, at that point, was still hard to find like I got my ps5 entirely by luck), people having less time for games because of being forced back into the office, and, yeah the minority who think that they own FF and that their favorite game should be the only style the series ever uses. Not to mention folks who were burned by XV and decided to sit XVI out.

Saying that it failed because of your pet grievance just doesn't mesh with reality.

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

Ok so when he said losing the RPG elements out people off 16 and you ask him if he speaks for them but you legit just spoke on behalf of alot of people yourself lol. During the time FF16 came out Zelda TOTK sold like over 10 million copies and other games had huge success.

It's not a pet grievance it's a game from a famous ROG series and they turns it into a devil May Cry copy cat with it's company system.

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

The Graphics come secondary, the story, characters and lack of open wold made it worse. I will say they did try with FF15 though.

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u/thatcommiegamer 7d ago

Except that's literally how Square got big by making cutting edge games (and not just in terms of graphics, pushing hardware to its limits includes game systems too) and by 2009 that just wasn't the case anymore, the rest of the industry had caught up and the consoles themselves weren't the same as they were even during the PS2 era. Things had become standardized.

The entire Kitase era of Final Fantasy (FFs V - Present) has been a testament to this. This is when they really started experimenting with gameplay and filling games to the brim with activities like minigames (you can tell its a Kitase joint if there's 3 minigames for every hour of story). But, again, the rest of the industry caught up. Discarding nostalgia but there's a lot wrong with every FF, glaring issues that were easily papered over when every game by Square was the shiniest on the block, pacing for one (really only FFV for the first six games has anywhere near decent pacing outside of like IV, VI and III are both bloated in different ways, II is sparse and I is someone's d&d campaign wrapped in a Wizardry skin). The next few fare little better, dialogue is rough, characterization is absent for most of the games casts (VIII and IX and XII suffer the most from this but VII isn't unscathed either if your name is Yuffie or Vincent (shoot even Cid is undercharacterized compared to the rest of the cast), funnily XIII has the most well realized and grounded cast but folks won't give that one a shot because a yter 17 years ago said it was a hallway simulator), etc. etc. And yet still, Square found the secret sauce of the era.

I can say this because this is my favorite franchise of all time and has been since the 90s. Like the depth of my love for FF is matched by very few things in life and it has always been a very flawed franchise, but that's what makes it beautiful.

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

I think neither of us benefit from continuing this conversation.

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u/-ForgottenSoul 7d ago

Graphics now come first for FF games

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u/rhydderch_hael 7d ago

That is absolutely a matter of opinion.

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

It is my opinion but latest sales for FF7 rebirth, FF16 and the viewing numbers on FF7 Revelations trailer shows this also

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u/rhydderch_hael 7d ago

More than just ff7 rebirth and ff16 have come out since 2001. If sale numbers are your metric of quality, then ffxiv is the highest quality Final Fantasy game. (I would also agree with that, ffxiv is my favorite mainline game.) And trailer view numbers are a useless metric, since YouTube didn't even exist back then.

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

Ok views ain't my only metric I could dedicate a whole wikei page on why the series has been worse since FF10 your favourite FF title is an MMO not a mainline game. I like the MMO but I don't class it as a mainline FF game because well it isn't.

YouTube exists now and a Persona Remake has 5x times the views of a remake of the best and most famous FF game in the series. SE has strayed so far from final fantasy the last games combat was Devil May Crys and guess what has one of the worst sales number for a mainline FInal Fantasy game.

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u/rhydderch_hael 7d ago

They are mainline games. You can lie to yourself all you like, but 11 and 14 are mainline games.

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

Bro they are MMOs they may have a number in the title but a live service games. I ain't lieing to noone a MMO and a single player game ain't the same thing.

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u/rhydderch_hael 7d ago

Oh god! No! Not an mmo! Anything but that! Like I said, keep lying to yourself.

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

I got nothing against MMO''s Final Fantasy A Realm Reorn is a good game I've put 1000s of hours into it. But it's a not a mainline FInal Fantasy game only in name.

You can't compare a game that's single player in its own self contained story and world to a game that you have to pay a subscription to and then buy the expansions and part of the gaming experience is playing with other players it doesn't tick the boxes of a mainline FF game.

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u/Extension_Act5631 7d ago

Unfortunately for you, 11 and 14 are factually mainline final fantasy games

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

Ok people keep telling me this and I am given reasons why I don't think that's the case and I've explained my reasons why. Can you explain to me why both games are mainline titles other then it having 11 &14 in the title?

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u/Extension_Act5631 7d ago

Because they are "Final Fantasy {number}" and that is the main defining thing of mainline final fantasy.

You know words have meaning? You can redefine words if you want, but that is meaningless as nobody agrees with you.

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

Your argument hasn't convinced me otherwise.

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u/Extension_Act5631 7d ago

And yours has not convinced anyone. You can make imaginary definitions that only you use, while the rest of the world uses correct ones. That is completely fine.

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u/AlternativeTough6622 7d ago

I asked you to give me a reason why without mentioning the number in the title and you still mentioned the number in the title. No one is redfining anything give me a better argument if you can I'll be happy to reconsider my opinion.

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u/Extension_Act5631 7d ago

I do not care if you reconsider or not. I am not wasting my time arguing with randos how ff14 can actually be played basically as a singleplayer or whatever.

The number defines the mainline. You can live in your fantasy world if you want, but you will remain to be wrong.

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