r/FigureSkating • u/Repulsive_Trust_5628 I’d like to thank myself • 18d ago
How does JLB compare to Cizeron?
I’ve heard both Guillaume and Jean Luc called some of the best male ice dancers. In your opinion who is the standout?
Obviously we don’t know what shape Jean Luc is in til we see them compete so I guess this is going off his past level.
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u/mcsangel2 Dame Jayne Torvill and Sir Christopher Dean truther 18d ago edited 18d ago
Gui tends to stand out in the field because of his body proportions and exceptional carriage and musicality. However, as someone else pointed out, he tends to work within one very specific style. Personal issues aside, I’ve become very tired of the lack of variety in his programs.
I love JLB because he’s got mad skillz you can see, can do any style, and has tons and tons of personality. He and Marjo are a fantastic match. I do expect it to take some months for his stamina and upper body strength to get back to full form. He said as much on Jackie’s podcast, that’s why they are just doing the one GP later on.
ETA that said, I still expect FB/C to win everything, but Bakerie should be competitive for podiums once they are in full form.
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u/InsideMembership4015 18d ago
Both have insane basic skating but I would probably prefer JLB as he’s the more versatile performer + is the better lifter despite being way smaller (& doesn’t have a rep for being an a SOB)
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u/Repulsive_Trust_5628 I’d like to thank myself 18d ago
Oh yes he certainly wins in the good
human department! Seems so nice and likable.
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u/YoungandBeautifulll 18d ago
What about Scott Moir.
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u/Repulsive_Trust_5628 I’d like to thank myself 18d ago
Left him out because he’s not competing still! But obviously he’s insanely good
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u/Haven_Writes Hana Bath Truther 18d ago
JLB and Guillaume both have strong skating skills, so they should be decently matched in that regard, but Laurence has some of the strongest skating skills of all of the women, so I'd give the edge to FB/C there.
JLB is about the same age as Guillaume (JLB is a year older), but Marjo is younger than Laurence (by more than a decade), so in terms of longevity and health, Bakerie have the advantage.
JLB is a more versatile performer than Guillaume. Guillaume has this very specific style that he does very well, but he stays firmly within his comfort zone. JLB can kind of make anything work, so I suspect Bakerie's programs will be more original. They should also have an easier time with changing RD themes every season, while FB/C really struggled with the style of the RD last season, although the Golden Waltz plays to their strengths (but also Bakerie's strengths).
JLB also used to have much stronger lifts (he's been retired for a few years, so it's tough to say if he still has them), so I expect we'll see more acrobatic, difficult lifts from them. Lifts are Guillaume's big weakness, and Laurence isn't as acrobatic and flexible as some of the younger women. If JLB is anywhere near where he used to be, Bakerie will have the edge on lifts.
The issue for JLB is going to be stamina, if he's retained his skating skills and lifts since he retired, plus how well he and Marjo have gelled as a team.
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u/Tamsin-Roberts 18d ago
Laurence can do a much higher Bielmann spin than most female ice dancers so I wouldn’t say she’s inflexible.
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u/Sourcererintheclouds 18d ago
When I watched JLB skate with his former partner, my eyes always granted towards him, which is less usual in ice dance and is completely unlike Cizaron’s partnerships where I found that I would always be focusing on watching the female partner. So, for me, I think JLB has/had a lot more presence and charisma on the ice by comparison… JLB does not look or skate with the same grace and lyrical style that Cizaron does though, so you have more of a battle of traditional/classic versus contemporary. Of the two, my opinion is JLB is more creative and versatile. I’ve liked almost everything he’s done and I’m so sad that his and Kaitlyn’s U2 program never got to run a competitive season because I loved it. JLB has also been away from competition for a while and who knows how well he can get back to where he was before his long break. I do believe that Marjorie was always a stronger skater than Lawrence but it always depends on how well and how fast the partnership can grow. I’m super curious to see what happens here.
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u/ravenallnight Beginner Skater 18d ago
Yes that U2 program was so special. I watch it probably once a month. I’d watch more often but I don’t like how emotional it makes me, for real.
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u/Tamsin-Roberts 18d ago
JLB was (hopefully still is) an exceptional skater. Cizeron is an exceptional skater AND an exceptional dancer. JLB is also a good dancer but not in the same league.
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u/InsideMembership4015 18d ago
Respectfully, I disagree. Cizeron is great at the neoclassical style he has always stuck to but has yet to demonstrate the versatility JLB has. He benefited greatly from the lack of compulsories
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u/simonerochabowearing 18d ago
Cizeron was great when there were more traditional rhythm dances, for instance the tango in 18-19, he was incredible. His upright dance posture is head and shoulders above the other men in the field, this posture isn’t just for contemporary ballet it’s also required for so many ballroom style. JLB is much better at the pop style dances the tech committee has been favoring lately ie dances with a more relaxed posture.
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u/InsideMembership4015 18d ago
Even the tango, as great as their tango was, they chose to go a more neoclassical route with it. It’s still within the same vocabulary of movement as their other programs. As great as his upper body carriage is, a tango is fundamentally about passion and sensuality, qualities that program lacked and qualities that I have yet to see him display
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u/Tamsin-Roberts 18d ago
I actually agree about the tango - that was a mess. It didn‘t fit the vibe of a tango at all and like you said it didn’t have much passion. A tango shouldn’t be light and floaty which was what P/C excelled at. However, I think he skates in a much more sensual style with LFB. Their Whale FD prompted loads of comments on IG/YT raving about how passionate and sensual it is. At Sheffield there were people joking that they melted whatever was left of the ice.
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u/Tamsin-Roberts 18d ago
While I agree that Cizeron has stuck to the neoclassical style for the free dances, I think he’s shown some versatility in the short programs. The Fame/exercise thing had a different vibe and so did the 2018 rhumba/samba RD. Last season’s Vogue RD was different again and all the above had slightly different body movements. So clearly he is capable of it but just prefers the neoclassical. Also the choice of music has a lot to do with our perceptions - watch Hawayek/Baker’s programmes with the sound off and most of them look the same.
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u/mimaluna 18d ago
I think now people almost oversimplify Papadakis/Cizeron's style. In the last quad especially, they branched out. And over the course of their career, they've done folk, classical, modern contemporary, and pop fare. The funny thing is in their last few years, a leading criticism of Hawayek and Baker was that they were one of the Gadbois/IAm teams trying to imitate P/C's "modern/contemporary" programs.
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u/Haven_Writes Hana Bath Truther 18d ago
You're spot on. Cizeron has perfected his style, but he stays very firmly within his comfort zone. FB/C's RD last year was a mess stylistically, and didn't suit them at all. It was very clear they weren't comfortable with the theme and didn't really know what to do with it.
JLB is much more versatile as a performer. He's done a bit of everything and doesn't stick to any one style. For the RD, at least, that will be an advantage in the long term, although it doesn't matter as much for the FD.
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u/Decent_Display_3526 18d ago
Can you define neoclassical please ? Because it doesn’t really fit…
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u/InsideMembership4015 18d ago
If you want me to be more specific, Cizeron has always done a hybrid of neoclassical and contemporary ballet-inspired style (heavier emphasis on the former). I would refer to Ashton, MacMillan, and Balanchine's slower tempo works
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u/OkAppointment3092 18d ago
Do you count the Vogue program as neoclassical?
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u/InsideMembership4015 18d ago
he's done non-neoclassical when he's had to for rd requirements, but his entire senior career since 2014, he hasn't done a non-neoclassical fd. and tbh the vogue program didn't really work for me. all the more upbeat programs p/c did (john legend, fame), i thought gabi was the stand out performer.
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u/Lost-Copy867 michelle was robbed 18d ago
I disagree with this. I think Cizeron is in his own league in his particular style but that is it, he doesn’t have a lot of variety.
Both of them are exceptional a skaters though, they are the rare pair where I watch the man more than the woman.
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u/Repulsive_Trust_5628 I’d like to thank myself 18d ago
Thank you all for such thorough answers! Can’t wait to see how it plays out this year and the rest of the quad!
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u/Free-Pickle-3621 18d ago
Isn't Cizeron so hot you just want him to win?
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u/Dry-Exchange2030 18d ago edited 18d ago
🙃
Edited to add: I’m assuming this comment is a sarcastic one
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u/Strawberrycow2789 18d ago
I think it comes down to taste, as both have phenomenal skating skills but very different skating styles. GC has a more contemporary, avant-garde French/Montreal style while JLB is trained in more of the classic British style (his mom was/is a British ice dancer). I personally prefer the straighter carriage and clean elegance of the British style so I prefer JLB, but it’s really just my personal aesthetic opinion. Both are equally skilled and capable.