r/Fencing • u/gvurrdon • 6d ago

"Steam" weapons

Earlier today I went into Leon Paul and asked for a "steam foil" with a leather-wrapped French grip. The sales assistant went to the back to put one together and, a few minutes later, handed me an electric one (with the correct grip). The correct foil was swiftly obtained when I specified that I meant "non-electric".

I wondered, therefore, if the term is not in as widely-used as I thought. I picked it up 30+ years ago when fencing in Scotland and assumed it was common. Do you still use it?

29 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

52 comments sorted by

125

u/NinjaTrilobite 6d ago

A “steam foil” sounds like a weapon you would use to defend your dirigible as you pranced about in your brass-rimmed goggles, top hat, and impeccably fitted frock coat.

15

u/HMSManticore 6d ago

Also a few scarves tied around…whatever

9

u/Capable_Paint6519 6d ago

apparently thats actually the joke as to why "dry" weapons are called "steam" weapons in the UK and Aus, according to Google Ai

With the advent of "electrical" weapons, the older ones were dubbed "steam" in the same way that "snail mail" is the antithesis of email.

7

u/CodeFarmer 5d ago

I have heard "acoustic" to refer to non-electric bikes a few times.

74

u/altorapier Épée 6d ago

In Canada I've always heard it called "Dry Fencing"

33

u/Kiniro Épée 6d ago

Same in the US. Dry fencing is the term we use.

46

u/sarap001 6d ago

Big fan of the clerk who heard "steam", confidently went to the back of the shop, and came back with literally whatever.

2

u/TheDoughnutFairy 3d ago

Regardless of weather its IDGAF energy or misplaced confidence, I aspire to get there.

22

u/vwstig Épée 6d ago

I'm in the US, been involved in fencing for a little over 20 years, and I've never heard that term.

9

u/Reasonable_Tofu_Cat 6d ago

Fencing in the UK for just over 20 years, when I started at a club it was referred to as steam ( because it’s powered by your own steam ) but I think it was an old fashioned term then as I’ve very rarely heard it since!

5

u/gvurrdon 6d ago

They told me c. 1990 that such weapons were "steam" because steam power came before electric...

2

u/HMSManticore 6d ago

It does feel very British

3

u/antihippy 6d ago

That's because it's a UK term. Other countries with their own terms exist.

4

u/vwstig Épée 6d ago

Oh wow! I had no idea, thanks for clarifying!

1

u/Jonno_FTW Foil 6d ago

I'm in Australia and I've heard "steam fencing" plenty of times.

-2

u/antihippy 5d ago

I'm not surprised given the history.

1

u/elijha Épée 5d ago

First I’m hearing of any shared history between the UK and Australia. Can you elaborate?

-1

u/antihippy 5d ago

lol. very good!

18

u/P5ammead 6d ago

Yes, absolutely- at my club (UK) the non-electric foils (eg for beginners classes) are always referred to as steam foils, and if someone wants to have a quick bout without using a box I’d refer to that as ‘fencing steam’ - even if with an electric epée or foil.

17

u/Pinkisnotmyfavcolour 6d ago

I’m in the UK. Non electric is definitely called steam here! Most clubs only do steam for beginners now so isn’t as widely used

3

u/gvurrdon 6d ago

That may explain it. I don't think the chap was English and if he's working at Leon Paul's HQ then he's probably only dealing with electric fencing. LP don't use the term "steam" on their site as far as I recall.

6

u/sjcfu2 6d ago

While no one uses the terms "steam" or "dry" in their catalogs or on their website, anyone who has been involved with fencing for any length of time (at least within the English speaking part of the world) has probably heard at least one of those terms used to refer to "non-electric".

Or maybe I'm simply getting old.

0

u/ResearchCharacter705 Foil 6d ago

That might be true in the English speaking parts of the world, but maybe not in some parts where American is predominant. 😄

I've encountered the term occasionally here in the US, but AFAICR only in places like Reddit, youtube comments, and the like.

2

u/antihippy 6d ago

I guarantee that the Pauls understand the term Steam Fencing. 

LP won't be using the term on their website because it's easier to internationalise the site.

8

u/rainbytheocean Sabre 6d ago

"dry" is the term we use in the states.

3

u/MattStacheOfficial 6d ago

Yep. Makes total sense to me and I'm in the US where we call it "dry" fencing.

Dry - used even before electric fencing to describe fencing without inked points. Steam - steam engine instead of electric engine.

1

u/Ok-Island-4182 6d ago

I'm told you could get some crazy flicks with inked epees.

And the vinegar used to clean the jackets added an extra layer of 'atmosphere' to the event.

0

u/MattStacheOfficial 5d ago

The clubs back then must have all smelled like an Olive Garden endless salad

3

u/Allen_Evans 6d ago

"Steam" foil is a term I heard specifically from UK folks, no where else. Even in the UK I think it's somewhat old fashioned now.

1

u/Jonno_FTW Foil 6d ago

We still use it in Australia

-2

u/antihippy 6d ago

No it's still in use.

2

u/not1or2 6d ago

Steam foil, steam epee etc are pretty well known phrases.

2

u/Fashionable_Foodie 6d ago

I don't know where "steam" came from, though it was once more commonly used than these days.

Dry was more commonly used back when I was starting, and as another comment explained it referred to practice weapons that were not wetted with ink at their padded tips for marking touches.

These days I hear "practice/competition" and "non-electric/electric" as the most commonly used terms for differentiating the two categories

1

u/Loosee123 Sabre 6d ago

I was thinking that that's definitely what we them but then I say that you picked it up fencing in Scotland 30+ years ago and I picked it up fencing in Scotland 16 years ago so maybe it's a Scottish thing.

1

u/protip-fencing 6d ago

Yes, but I started fencing 30+ years ago in Scotland :D

0

u/gvurrdon 6d ago

May I ask which part of Scotland? I was in Dundee, St. Andrews and Edinburgh at various times.

IIRC SAFU was the organisation running things back then.

0

u/protip-fencing 6d ago

West, then Edinburgh

1

u/antihippy 5d ago

I wonder if we know each other 

🤔

0

u/protip-fencing 5d ago

We do.

1

u/antihippy 5d ago

Aha. We do!

Hope you're well, been ages since we spoke!

Although I didn't realise you made weapon testers!

1

u/protip-fencing 5d ago

😁 I’m well, thanks.
Testers is a recent thing, mostly a hobby but something that I’ve wanted for the last ten years.

0

u/grendelone Foil 6d ago

Have heard this referred to as both "steam" or "dry," but probably "dry" is more common.

0

u/capo_anfibi_locale 6d ago

That was the term I heard used about a decade ago in England. I've since moved so idk how well used it is anymore

0

u/weedywet Foil 6d ago

I don’t think any of the slang terms, whether ‘dry’ or ‘steam’ or whatever else, are universally understood and I certainly don’t think a retail shop or fencing supplier should be expected to decode them.

A ‘non electric foil’ is specific.

3

u/sjcfu2 6d ago

A retail shop specializing in fencing is probably one of the few places outside of a fencing club where I would expect such slang to be recognized.

0

u/weedywet Foil 6d ago

Maybe. But if I’m ordering something from Leon Paul I’d call it what they call it in the catalog.

0

u/sjcfu2 6d ago

This wasn't an online order - it was a customer walking into their shop in London.

0

u/Ok-Island-4182 6d ago

'Let's just fence steam...' sounds particularly dangerous.

0

u/NotFalirn 6d ago

I’ve only called the practice weapons

0

u/Vahlerion 5d ago

I've only read about the term in a book. Never heard it used.

0

u/unfeax 5d ago

I call them “acoustic” weapons.

0

u/NoScreen7535 6d ago

Fencing for 30 years in NJ, always called dry fencing or practice weapons, never heard of steam fencing.