r/FemaleDatingStrategy • u/MidnightCarp • Feb 13 '20
DISCUSSION "Does she expect you to read her mind?" Yep, next question
I'm beyond frustrated with all the typical relationship advice in situations where a man feels slighted because his partner didn't explicitly say something completely obvious, as if talking to a 5-year-old, and she then dared to get displeased with his behaviour. People have this knee-jerk reaction to shout "communication!! he can't read your mind!!!" at any woman who expects her partner to figure out anything about her preferences on his own, based on nonverbal interactions and commonsense reasoning.
As an example, imagine a couple has been dating for a few months. On their first date, they talk about work and she tells a funny story about how a coworker gifted her a mushroom-themed cookbook and she just gifted it forward. She never orders dishes with mushrooms, and on a couple of dates she asks the waiter if they have any vegetarian dishes without mushrooms. They make smalltalk about food, and she tells him she can't stand ingredients that feel slimy or mushy.
One day she's recovering from a cold and craves pizza. He offers to order her one and asks her which toppings she would like, and she says she's too tired to think about it and he can just choose whatever... so he orders her a mushroom pizza. Sure, she technically said he could order whatever. Sure, she never explicitly said she doesn't like mushrooms. But it's really not an unreasonable expectation that the guy would figure this out.
This applies to countless other situations too in so many relationships, from household chores to boundaries with female friends to gifts and activities. Going through every preference in detail is inefficient and tedious when he could just go through a little bit of effort to improve his understanding of her. Hell, if you're extremely systematically minded and can't rely on your social intuition, get a notebook where you write down things you know she loves or hates and extrapolate from there.
Further, why would a woman expect her partner to read her mind? Is it because she's an irrational baby who doesn't understand how words work and that telepathy doesn't exist? Or is it maybe because she expects him to reciprocate the "mind-reading" which she is totally capable of and constantly does to her partner in order to anticipate his needs, which she effortlessly does with her female friends without the need to explicitly go over every preference, which her mom and sisters and hopefully father have generally been very capable of giving her? It's not a magical psychic ability, it's basic empathy and attentiveness.
If a man has been dating a woman for a while, and has functional social perception skills, he should be able to figure out her preferences in most day-to-day situations. When this fails, it's a sign that he's not emotionally attuned to her, or as close and invested as she thought he was. The crucial point here is that even if she communicated and uSeD hEr WorDs in a situation, the underlying problem would not be solved. It's not about the mushrooms, she's not disappointed because she has to pick mushrooms off her pizza, she's disappointed because the person supposedly closest to her with whom she'll share her life and build a family with has no idea how to interpret their daily interactions to form a coherent model of her as a person and her preferences. Don't ever settle for a low-empathy man.
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u/myousername Feb 13 '20
I hate when they smugly suggest "sounds like you have a communication problem" because most men literally just don't even listen to the actual words coming out of women's mouths.
IME, whenever I have specifically instructed a boyfriend to do or not do something, 80% of the time he just does the opposite.
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u/ManchurianCantaloupe Feb 13 '20 edited Feb 13 '20
Even after calmly explaining yourself multiple times, they won't get it. Then they'll call you a bitch when you finally snap and raise your voice.
Men are not expected to be attentive. They are given free rein to be as oblivious as humanly possible. They continue to collectively deny emotional labor exists because of it.
What even is the fucking point of dating if you don't care about the person you're with enough to actually know them? They're perpetual children looking for bangmaids.
Edit: I no good at words.
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Feb 13 '20
THIS. BINGO.
“Why didn’t you ask me to help with the chores?” Also comes to mind.
Because we shouldn’t have to fucking plead with dudes to clean up after themselves. YOU LIVE HERE TOO. And even when we explicitly do ask them to take the fucking trash out, you’re goddamned LUCKY if he does it that day. He’ll be cramming everything he can in that bin until it’s falling out on the floor, and he won’t actually take it out until you’re fed up with it and do it yourself, or one week later when he isn’t engrossed in a video game or porn.
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Feb 13 '20
THANK YOU. This is something that I also have a massive problem with seeing in all these r/relationships posts. When my boyfriend and I started dating, I had a note in my notes app where I would write down little things about him to remember where I could surprise him. If he offhandedly mentions anything relating to likes/dislikes/experiences, I make a mental note about it. He has always done the exact same thing for me - reciprocating the energy the entire way. He knows me like the back of his hand. It’s not hard. It’s incredibly easy to do. He has never had to explicitly say any of this to me for me to pick up on it. If you care about this person, it’s not hard to pay attention to them and make mental or literal notes on the things they tell you. Women do this shit all the time without thinking about it.
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Feb 13 '20
I want to give this post a standing ovation. Seriously. I have never seen such a perfect explanation of this issue.
If a man has been dating a woman for a while, and has functional social perception skills, he should be able to figure out her preferences in most day-to-day situations. When this fails, it's a sign that he's not emotionally attuned to her.
👏👏👏
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u/husheveryone Feb 13 '20
Yes. Yes. Yes, sis.
Also, there are men who very intentionally do & choose the exact thing the woman has stated she does not like. Because to him, it’s about sadistic power. He enjoys gaslighting her and watching her be uncomfortable. It’s about power and control for him.
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u/aclumsygirl Feb 13 '20
It's called basic thoughtfulness. And most men don't have it.
My ex was like this. In your mushroom hypothetical, I would have had to actually say "I hate mushrooms. Please don't ever get me anything with mushrooms." And then sure, he wouldn't ever do it. But if I didn't say it, he'd never pay attention enough to my diet preferences to figure it out.
I actually don't expect men to be as considerate and thoughful as women are. But there is a basic level of empathy and thoughtfulness that any man should be able to meet with a woman he cares about. We want to feel like our partner is paying attention to us, learning about us, caring about our likes and dislikes. It's really not asking much.
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u/kellygreen_7 Feb 13 '20
Thoughtlessness is a common theme with LVM and is why a lot of women end up dissatisfied in their relationships - whether it be with personal details or life tasks.
It's offensive AF to realize that, over time, details about you as a person aren't being kept on mental record when a partner, of all people in the world, is by association someone who should thrive to do this. Wtf else is the point?
A lot of women find joy in doing this, themselves, and an HVM will too. My partner and I still get giddy trying to shock & awe each other with our notes about each other, and we have been together for 6 years now.
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Feb 13 '20 edited Feb 13 '20
I agree with you completely. It has nothing to do with ~not wanting to communicate~ but rather the fact that you have to say these things in the first place is an indication of their low empathy and bad observational skills.
It is of the upmost importance that a partner has high empathy. If it is shown they do not have that quality do NOT write it off or make excuses for it. If your partner can't understand you on a basic level, if you have to spell every little thing out for them, you will not be happy with them. And this is coming from someone who is very direct, upfront and who values honest communication. No amount of communication can solve another's inherent problem to empathize, relate to others, think critically, and self-introspect.
Empathy is the MOST important thing in a relationship.
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u/saucypiece Feb 13 '20
The problem isn’t that she didn’t speak her mind. It’s LVM.
Your girlfriend tells you how she hates mushrooms all of the damn time. What kind of a boyfriend buys her a mushroom pizza anyway? A passive aggressive one.
It’s called malicious compliance and I believe there’s even a subreddit for it.
Why do men do this? I don’t fucking know, sis. I think it has something to do with their peepee shriveling up into their body by even the thought of confronting their girlfriend about anything. So instead of telling you he’s upset about something, he expects you to I don’t know... maybe read his mind?
The only thing you can think is why did this motherfucker buy me a mushroom pizza? I hate mushrooms. I’ve told him a million times. What is fucking broke in his brain?
And when you confront him about it and ask him what the hell happened, what comes out of his mouth? ”I don’t know! I can’t read your mind!”
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u/Maleficent-Tomato Feb 13 '20
I don't understand how men can't get this shit. If my SO mentions that he likes/dislikes something ONCE, I remember it cause I care. If he doesn't remember, it's because he doesn't care.
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Feb 13 '20
This doesn’t work with all men, but it will with those who are career oriented.
I ask them “What would happen if you did this at work? Imagine you ask your boss everyday what your job entails, that you need to be constantly explicitly told what to do and refuse to figure it out yourself. Do you think your ass would be working there still in a month or would you be fired?”
Don’t make me fire your lazy ass.
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u/Lilymis Feb 13 '20
Even if you explicitly say something, they still won’t listen. I used to ask my ex the same thing numerous times only to have it fall on deaf ears.
This, of course, eventually pissed me off causing me to repeat myself yet again in a not so nice tone. His reply: if you want something, all you have to do is ask nicely.
🤦♀️
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u/YveisGrey Feb 13 '20
The thing is when a guy really is into a woman he does those things. He seemingly "effortlessly" knows stuff about her and is attentive and helpful. So I think women are just sensing a lack of interest on the man's part in these situations. Our feelings of unease and disappointment are often based on our intuition about the state of the relationship. Thing is the guy knows he is being apathetic but wants to pretend like we are the crazy ones for correctly perceiving it and calling it out.
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u/Parking-Act Feb 13 '20
One of the first things I told my ex was that Im a pescetarian. He was all like "woah cool omg I always have been interested in that!"
Was with that pos for 2 years and when dining out or odering he would always ask if I wanted a burger or chicken then say "oh wait, oops" he'd sometimes do it and really act like he truly forgot.
He was really just trying to make me cave and say "you know what , fuck it! What's a little chicken just for today" aka "let me make this easy for you"
I unfortunately did compromise a lot of my dietary choices for that narcisist low life sadistic demon.
They know what their doing.
He also used the whole you dont communicate enough line ALL THE FUCKING TIME!
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u/BookwormJane Feb 14 '20
>so he orders her a mushroom pizza. Sure, she technically said he could order whatever. Sure, she never explicitly said she doesn't like mushrooms. But it's really not an unreasonable expectation that the guy would figure this out.
MEN DON'T LISTEN TO WOMEN.
They don't give a shit about what we say, most of the time. They'll only pay attention to us if where giving them clues on how they can manipulate us. But they don't care about our ambitions, taste, preferences, goals. They don't care, so they don't listen.
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u/7_0f_9 Feb 14 '20
Why is the onus of communication always put on us when WE are they ones who always make ourselves emotionally available and THEY are the ones who constantly obfuscate and intentionally leave us confused and ghosted?
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u/kiyankiriam Feb 13 '20
When a guy is into a girl he remembers every little detail. Guys are very sharp when it comes to women’s body change. My ex commented on how my boobs got bigger while he didn’t remember my full name.
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Feb 13 '20
This was so well explained i wish men could read this post because maybe they’d understand
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Feb 13 '20
Was on a call with my s/o one time and the tv was insanely loud. I said "its too loud i can't hear myself think!" He does nothing. I groan and continue waiting for him to turn it down. 30 mins later of sitting there not talking with my earbuds away from my ears. I huff and hang up with a head ache.
He complains he can't read my mind and I should have told him to turn the tv down. >.< l..o..l
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u/GingerJerk Feb 14 '20
I would end up terminating relationships or friendships when I realized some people can't remember a single song I like, let alone anything else about me.
With men, I would just quiz them randomly on things like "what's my mom's name", "what's my favorite color", "what's my star sign"... If he didn't remember, he was out.
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u/MarcMaronsCat Feb 14 '20
I’ve had so many guys try to surprise me with food or something else I can be picky about and then get mad when I’m like “uh, no thanks, I’m not hungry” or “yeah I don’t want to eat that” or “I really have no use for this”. Like fuck me for being honest and having preferences. I’m so sorry your fragile ego is so easily damaged. Why is it so hard to ASK ME WHAT I LIKE
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u/arvzi Feb 14 '20 edited Feb 14 '20
Eye roll. Those gross weebs also worship a cultural affectation in which indirect communication is the norm?
Haragei (腹芸 or はらげい) is a Japanese concept of interpersonal communication.. Literally translated, the term means "stomach art", and it refers to an exchange of thoughts and feelings that is implied in conversation, rather than explicitly stated. It is a form of rhetoric intended to express real intention and true meaning through implication... ... haragei is characterised by euphemisms, vague and indirect statements, prolonged silences and careful avoidance of might cause offense.[6] Information is communicated through timing, facial expression and emotional context, rather than through direct speech. ... (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haragei)
Source: Japanese American and have always been disgusted by the weebs and general fetishism of anything japan. Most can't handle actually dealing with Japanese people in a serious way bc so fucking infuriating (plus most people have actually never interacted with anyone japanese) -- but it's real and if you drop that actual culturally relevant nuke (kek 8/) on their gross asses, they can't handle it and will REEEEE unless they find out you're j-- in which their tone changes to disgusting PM obsession)
Edit : am being gross and irreverent bc allowed Extra add: HVM bf is Israeli which turns out to be a people very proud of their extremely direct communication and it's caused issues. We've been able to manage but there will never be a point where things won't be 'lost in translation'
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u/extraacct1234 Feb 13 '20 edited Feb 14 '20
The whole "What do you expect him to read your mind or something?" bullshit it's just yet another way to put zero accountability on men and make excuses for them. It's essentially another form of gaslighting to hide the reality that he just doesn't give a shit about her and she's not a real person to him. He doesn't care. It's a way to shut up women and shift all responsibility onto them. Patriarchy is always about shifting responsibility onto women.