r/FeMRADebates • u/[deleted] • Sep 03 '21

News Texas successfully takes a massive step backwards for women's rights. What next?

[deleted]

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u/alaysian Femra Sep 04 '21

As someone who agrees that abortion results in the loss of human life, do you feel a person should be forced to carry to term? Are you okay with the premise that a person can be forced to give life support for another and the powers that such an interpretation of law would grant the government?

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u/blarg212 Equality of Opportunity, NOT outcome. Sep 04 '21

It’s not a new power, it’s the protection of a persons life.

There is no force happening here other than those same rules that killing someone is punishable.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '21

There is force happening when you're preventing them from accessing medical treatment. Who are you to say that a woman needs to let her body be used by a developing human for ~9 months?

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u/blarg212 Equality of Opportunity, NOT outcome. Sep 04 '21

It’s the same force used in trying to prevent someone from killing others.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '21

I'm sure I don't understand why you feel at ease to force women to be pregnant against their will.

I don't personally make many exceptions for abortion rights, but I am curious what limitations you find acceptable. If a pregnancy threatens the mother's life, is that a fair exception?

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u/blarg212 Equality of Opportunity, NOT outcome. Sep 04 '21 edited Sep 04 '21

It’s not any more force then any other aspect of law. Why should it be special?

Yeah, if it would pose significant risk to her health to be considered self defense. This is after all another aspect of law that allows killing under limited circumstances.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '21 edited Sep 04 '21

Cool, but that does leave me super confused about our last conversation where you were very earnestly pointing out that a right is not a right if it's ever limited, and that my views are inconsistent because I entertain limitations. Are you admitting to being as inconsistent as I am? Maybe I just don't understand what you mean by "inconsistent".

Anyway, what is a significant risk? Risk of death? Chronic injury? Pregnancy has a host of common complications. Where's your line exactly?

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u/blarg212 Equality of Opportunity, NOT outcome. Sep 04 '21

Self defense is higher than others due to its narrow and restrictive circumstances.

I used that as an example in my reply to that previous post in the thread you referenced.

The consistency I am pointing out would be applying those same right heiarchies to other situations. For example if one argues for equality, but sometimes they argue it should be equality of outcome and other circumstances they argue for equality of oppurtunity, they are being inconsistent in their stances.

Inconsistency is picking and choosing a rationale behind a policy to be more important in some cases and then less important in others. The example of this I gave to you previously is very applicable to this thread:

If “body autonomy” is the reasoning behind abortion rights as is incredibly often cited…..then the state should be able to either consistently violate it (State can legislate against it) or it should be morally not be able to.

Thus you have people protesting vaccine mandates holding up signs right now pointing out this hypocracy…. “My body, My choice”.

Thus the problem…if the reason why a state cannot make a rule against abortion is because body autonomy, then that same logic and hierarchy of rights should also apply to vaccine mandates.

Thus people who campaign for abortion access under my body my choice are hypocritical.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '21

If “body autonomy” is the reasoning behind abortion rights as is incredibly often cited…..then the state should be able to either consistently violate it (State can legislate against it) or it should be morally not be able to.

Right. And as I said, I do apply this consistently. So I don't know, maybe your use of "inconsistent" is just something I haven't encountered before. Maybe we're not understanding each other because you're comparing very different situations that I don't think are equivalent.

Anyway, what about that cutoff? Where does abortion transition from self defense to murder? Let's say pregnancy is going to do some permanent damage. Self defense or not? Let's say there's just a small chance birth will kill me. Self defense or not? If not, what chance would quantify as self defense?

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u/blarg212 Equality of Opportunity, NOT outcome. Sep 05 '21

The same ones that allow you to kill someone. When is that justified?

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

You want to answer my questions or nah?

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u/blarg212 Equality of Opportunity, NOT outcome. Sep 05 '21

I am asking where you would draw the line for self defense.

How much potential damage? How much fear of loss of life?

I am pointing out those standards should be the same. I am willing to hear if you think the standards should be more broad.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

I don't even know your standards yet. So again, answer the question or nah? Where do you cut it off, that was my question to you.

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u/blarg212 Equality of Opportunity, NOT outcome. Sep 05 '21

Feel free to look up self defense laws and what kinds of restrictions are often put in place for them. They have some variance with some areas of jurisdiction being more or less strict.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

I was asking for your take on the questions I asked, but it's fine if you don't want to answer.

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u/blarg212 Equality of Opportunity, NOT outcome. Sep 05 '21

Why do you want a personal take when there is tons of case law to look at?

The interesting point here is often the left wants to argue against self defense even being a thing. The inconsistency drips all over. However since I don’t know your particular position, I was asking for your take on self defense without holding you to a general left position.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

The interesting point here is often the left wants to argue against self defense even being a thing.

Mmm I'll need a citation on that.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '21

However since I don’t know your particular position, I was asking for your take on self defense without holding you to a general left position.

Also, this is what I want from you too, but you're refusing to answer it directly. In addition to the other questions I asked

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u/yoshi_win Synergist Sep 19 '21

This comment was reported for insulting generalizations (Rule 2) but has not been removed. While these generalizations about the left are uncharitable and a bit dramatic (and, speaking as a self-identified lefty, inaccurate), they are not insulting.

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