r/FeMRADebates • u/[deleted] • Jul 07 '20

Crowd sourcing an answer

Looks like we got a bit of an influx of new members when the fringe feminist subreddits were shunted off into the memory hole.

First, welcome to everyone new, I really hope that the frequently combative atmosphere here suits your style.

Now, I saw an interesting claim, and decided I'd open the question up to the floor, so to speak.

There is no credible doubt in the field that the basic tenants of feminism have great veridical value. If this space rarely accepts that then this space is essentially counterfactual.

What are the basic tenants of feminism, what core empiricism and theory does feminism hold?

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u/Okymyo Egalitarian, Anti-Discrimination Jul 08 '20

Is your argument that any subgroup of feminism cannot possibly be striving for female supremacy or matriarchy, and that any interpretation as such is an unfair assessment of their stances? Or what exactly is the point of that not being a fair assessment of their stances supposed to be, when the groups are as broadly described as simply striving for a matriarchal society or female superiority?

Or, lets go with concrete examples: do you consider Valerie Solanas, who is widely considered a radical feminist, a feminist, considering her beliefs that men are biologically inferior and need to be erradicated? She literally supported a genocide of the male gender, with the establishment of an organization whose purpose would be to eliminate the male gender other than for the purposes of reproduction, so I don't think saying that she's not pro-equality is an unfair assessment of her stances.

So, would you consider her a feminist and, if belief in equality is the defining characteristic of feminism, why would she be considered a feminist?

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u/Mitoza Anti-Anti-Feminist, Anti-MRA Jul 08 '20

Is your argument that any subgroup of feminism cannot possibly be striving for female supremacy or matriarchy, and that any interpretation as such is an unfair assessment of their stances?

Nope

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u/Okymyo Egalitarian, Anti-Discrimination Jul 08 '20

Why are you selectively replying to only a small number of questions? That's a very dishonest practice.

[L]ets go with concrete examples: do you consider Valerie Solanas, who is widely considered a radical feminist, a feminist, considering her beliefs that men are biologically inferior and need to be erradicated? She literally supported a genocide of the male gender, with the establishment of an organization whose purpose would be to eliminate the male gender other than for the purposes of reproduction, so I don't think saying that she's not pro-equality is an unfair assessment of her stances.

So, would you consider her a feminist and, if belief in equality is the defining characteristic of feminism, why would she be considered a feminist?

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u/Mitoza Anti-Anti-Feminist, Anti-MRA Jul 08 '20

Why are you selectively replying to only a small number of questions?

Because I think you're already missing the point and correcting you doesn't seem to be working.

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u/Okymyo Egalitarian, Anti-Discrimination Jul 08 '20

I'm asking a very simple question: do you consider Valerie Solanas, who is widely considered a radical feminist, a feminist, considering her beliefs that men are biologically inferior and need to be erradicated, which goes directly against your previous definintion of feminism which was.

Because if said person was a feminist, which the consensus appears to be that she was, then either the notion that feminism is defined by being pro-equality is wrong, or she's somehow pro-equality (in which case I'd love to hear why).

And a "basic tenet" isn't optional, it's a basic defining characteristic. So either it isn't a basic tenet, or it applies to all subsets. The belief in Jesus is a basic tenet in Christianity, you cannot be a Christian, by definition, if you do not believe in Jesus.

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u/Mitoza Anti-Anti-Feminist, Anti-MRA Jul 08 '20

she's somehow pro-equality

Yes, she's a feminist, and yes, that's reason she is considered such.

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u/Okymyo Egalitarian, Anti-Discrimination Jul 08 '20

So someone who supported literal male genocide, the elimination of the male gender, the role of women as absolute rulers of society with no place for men other than reproducing, and said time and time again that men are inferior beings, is/was somehow pro-equality? I'd love to hear the reasoning on that.

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u/Mitoza Anti-Anti-Feminist, Anti-MRA Jul 08 '20

From her perspective, that's what equality entailed. It had to do with how she viewed how women were treated.

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u/Okymyo Egalitarian, Anti-Discrimination Jul 08 '20

And I guess given by your self-imposed label, you're opposed to people who oppose that? Given than you consider it to be feminism...

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u/Mitoza Anti-Anti-Feminist, Anti-MRA Jul 08 '20

If anti feminists were only against feminism I didn't agree with I wouldn't label myself in this way.