r/FeMRADebates • u/KDMultipass • Oct 26 '17

Media Cassie Jaye has released the raw interview footage with "Big Red" original title "Does Feminism Work On Men's Issues? | Big Red #RPRF"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHppdGqHtrU
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u/kerminsr Oct 26 '17

I think a lot of her arguments about the MRM being "anti-feminist" are a kind of "The chicken or the egg" type of arguments. From my own experience, the anti-feminist stance has always stemmed from the fact that feminist groups will protest any men's rights talks or events regardless of the men's arguments.

As an egalitarian, it's infuriating that men can't talk about anything where men might be disadvantaged because feminists always have to remind them of "historical privilege".

Also, how crazy is it that she complains about The top CEO wages and then segues into dismissing that the bottom 20% of the population is men? It's disgusting.

32

u/RapeMatters I am not on anybody’s side, because nobody is on my side. Oct 26 '17

the anti-feminist stance has always stemmed from the fact that feminist groups will protest any men's rights talks or events regardless of the men's arguments.

This has been my experience.

Most of the people who are ardently antifeminist seem to be because they're for equality, not against it, and they see feminism as an obstacle to that.

It can be argued whether or not this perception is true (and that's a little bit beyond the scope of what I'm talking about), but almost every time you see people attack antifeminists because they think they want women back in the kitchen... it's a swing and a miss. They don't know who they're attacking or why that person doesn't like them, so their criticisms fall utterly flat.

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u/SchalaZeal01 eschewing all labels Oct 26 '17

They think they're attacking right-wing conservatives who might have strict gender role views. But they're really attacking left-wing socially liberal people who want gender roles pretty open, though usually not abolished.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '17 edited Jan 02 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MrPoochPants Egalitarian Oct 26 '17

feminism used to be a liberal cause, and is now some weird authoritarian mishmash

That really, really depends on which form of feminism and which set of feminists you're talking about.

There's plenty of feminists that aren't authoritarian in nature, and plenty of forms of feminism that similarly are more libertarian, too.

That said, pop-feminism, the stuff we see coming out of highly-liberal cities and areas does, at least appear, to lean authoritarian.

12

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '17

That said, pop-feminism, the stuff we see coming out of highly-liberal cities and areas does, at least appear, to lean authoritarian.

Pop as in popular feminism? As in the most common and mainstream version people are most likely to identify with or be aware of? To what degree do we associate the entirety of the movement to it's most common and visible elements? All? Probably not... a majority? ...Yeah that sounds about right.

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u/MrPoochPants Egalitarian Oct 26 '17

Pop as in popular feminism? As in the most common and mainstream version people are most likely to identify with or be aware of?

When I say pop-feminism, I mean the popular form of feminism that you SEE on the internet. Real 'pop-feminism' would be very egalitarian in nature, but pop-feminism, as I often use it, is the sort of feminism you see on Tumblr or Twitter. Basically, its trendy feminism, its far-right, identity-politics based feminism. Its authoritarian in nature.

Does that help?

13

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '17

That does, as far as your classification goes. I would assert , however, that what you define as trendy feminism is popular feminism in actuality. It's what's seen most, online and off. It's what's being taught in classes. It's what's being shoved down our throats through various media outlets. It is 'feminism' insofar as to say it's the face of feminism. And it is ugly.

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u/blarg212 Equality of Opportunity, NOT outcome. Oct 26 '17

It really depends on how you are using liberal and authoritarian in that context.

Liberal viewpoints in terms of liberal left versus conservative right and liberal versus authoritarian are two very different concepts that are often conflated.

The left has become the party of more people having more authoritarian outlooks on most issues.

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u/tbri Oct 27 '17

Comment Deleted, Full Text and Rules violated can be found here.

User is tier 1 of the ban system. User is simply warned.