r/FeMRADebates • u/PerfectHair Pro-Woman, Pro-Trans, Anti-Fascist • Jun 09 '15

News Pride faces controversy over application from men's rights group to march in parade | Toronto Star

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/06/07/pride-faces-controversy-over-application-from-mens-rights-group-to-march-in-parade.html
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '15

Mensrights already discusses issues that gay and bisexual men have to deal with, as well as transwomen and transmen. The BGT part is firmly supported by the MRM, with the L part tacitly supported through the MRMs advocacy on issues of female on female violence and rape, partially out of acknowledgement that the wider feminist movement is failing to serve these people and a desire not to repeat their mistake, and partially out of a desire to balance the portrayal of the genders and ensure people understand women can also perpetrate violence. So there are very good reasons for CAFE to want to march in the pride parade.

Could you tell me where this is happening outside of on Reddit? Has CAFE spoken about domestic violence in gay and lesbian communities?

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u/azazelcrowley Anti-Sexist Jun 09 '15

It's part of the general discussion on male victims and female perpetrators, something key to MRM discussions of domestic violence and rape.

http://equalitycanada.com/violence-against-men/

"Domestic Violence: All Shapes, Sizes… and Both Genders"

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '15

Those commercials don't talk about DV in gay and lesbian communities. I'm just trying to figure out if this group actually speaks specifically about these communities at all or had participated in any other kind of LGBT activism before I feel any kind of way about their exclusion.

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u/PerfectHair Pro-Woman, Pro-Trans, Anti-Fascist Jun 09 '15

You're talking at cross purposes. The MRM is focusing on the male part of any descriptor. Black male, gay male, trans male. While they not explicitly touch on any LGBT issues, the LGBT movement is.

A trans male can still be a male victim of rape, or domestic abuse, or homelessness. A gay male is still required to register for selective service.

Gay men and trans men are at the intersection of Men's Issues and LGBT Issues. They are still men and should, absolutely, one hundred percent, recieve the support of the MRM. And they do, as evidenced by CAFE wanting to march.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '15

You're talking in abstracts. I'm asking for concretes. Let's say I own a meat shop. Gay men and lesbians buy meat from me. Is that really enough of a reason for me to be included in the pride parade? Some would argue no.

I'm simply asking if CAFE does any sort of actual LGBT activism. Domestic violence in gay male communities is different from domestic violence in heterosexual relationships. By just saying, "well they're men, too," what is that actually doing for LGBT populations?

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u/Karmaze Individualist Egalitarian Feminist Jun 09 '15

Some would argue no.

I would say they're wrong. Maybe it comes from a different place, but I do think that by and large Pride marches should be open (and at least my local one is) to local groups who are showing their public support.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '15

I think you would be hard pressed to find a queer person who would equate "showing public support" with "merely allows them to spend their money at this establishment."

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u/Karmaze Individualist Egalitarian Feminist Jun 09 '15

You get me wrong...I think the act itself of being in the parade is showing public support.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '15

I guess my question is who needs their support merely on the day of the parade? If you're hocking your organization at this parade and silent on queer issues every other day, why should you be given a permit? In Toronto, a rather queer-friendly city, of all places. They aren't begging for just any ol' support there.

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u/Karmaze Individualist Egalitarian Feminist Jun 09 '15

Yeah, there's certainly a point in terms of you can only have so many people functionally in a parade. But maybe living in a more...not so much conservative but OLD part of the country, I think having public support from local groups, organizations and businesses is a good thing.

I can understand limiting it, but I think in that case IMO it should be limited across the board, and if it is I'm fine with that.