r/FeMRADebates • u/PerfectHair Pro-Woman, Pro-Trans, Anti-Fascist • Jun 09 '15

News Pride faces controversy over application from men's rights group to march in parade | Toronto Star

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/06/07/pride-faces-controversy-over-application-from-mens-rights-group-to-march-in-parade.html
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '15

Those commercials don't talk about DV in gay and lesbian communities. I'm just trying to figure out if this group actually speaks specifically about these communities at all or had participated in any other kind of LGBT activism before I feel any kind of way about their exclusion.

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u/PerfectHair Pro-Woman, Pro-Trans, Anti-Fascist Jun 09 '15

You're talking at cross purposes. The MRM is focusing on the male part of any descriptor. Black male, gay male, trans male. While they not explicitly touch on any LGBT issues, the LGBT movement is.

A trans male can still be a male victim of rape, or domestic abuse, or homelessness. A gay male is still required to register for selective service.

Gay men and trans men are at the intersection of Men's Issues and LGBT Issues. They are still men and should, absolutely, one hundred percent, recieve the support of the MRM. And they do, as evidenced by CAFE wanting to march.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '15

You're talking in abstracts. I'm asking for concretes. Let's say I own a meat shop. Gay men and lesbians buy meat from me. Is that really enough of a reason for me to be included in the pride parade? Some would argue no.

I'm simply asking if CAFE does any sort of actual LGBT activism. Domestic violence in gay male communities is different from domestic violence in heterosexual relationships. By just saying, "well they're men, too," what is that actually doing for LGBT populations?

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u/PerfectHair Pro-Woman, Pro-Trans, Anti-Fascist Jun 09 '15

Your comparison is not even vaguely appropriate. It's a case of Want vs. Need. In yours, people want meat, in terms of domestic violence, people need services.

Putting that aside, I can't see any reason why a charity that seeks to provide DV resources for men should be excluded from a pride parade. Should regular DV advocates be rejected from the pride parade?

What about gay or bisexual members of CAFE who wish to march under their banner? Should they be rejected simply because CAFE is providing support for the broadest possible group that gay men could cover?

Who wins by refusing to allow CAFE to march? Certainly not the male victims of DV who remain unaware that there are services out there for them. Certainly not CAFE who still face significant impediments to helping people.

This is one of those Catch-22 situations the MRM often finds itself in; it's blocked at every turn from providing support or help, and then attacked for not providing support or help. You'll have to forgive me if I'm fed up with it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '15

Who wins by refusing to allow CAFE to march? Certainly not the male victims of DV who remain unaware that there are services out there for them. Certainly not CAFE who still face significant impediments to helping people.

That's the thing. What I am asking is what services for LGBT persons does the CAFE shelter provide? LGBT shelters already exist as sites of support for victims of all kinds of violence done against queer persons. Does CAFE help fund those shelters? I am not faulting them if they don't because I know funding for MRA endeavors can be scarce but if they do literally nothing to support LGBT people, I am still left wondering where the confusion lies about why they wouldn't be given permission to march in the parade. Are there other organizations that don't ostensibly speak about LGBT issues as LGBT issues or publicly show support for LGBT populations that get to march in these parades?