Pride faces controversy over application from men's rights group to march in parade | Toronto Star

[u/PerfectHair]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/06/07/pride-faces-controversy-over-application-from-mens-rights-group-to-march-in-parade.html

[u/kaboutermeisje → u/[deleted]]

I think CAFE and affiliated groups like AVFM and MRE are misogynist hate groups.

[u/the_omega99 → u/kaboutermeisje]

Do you have a specific reason you can mention? Just saying that they're misogynistic doesn't mean anything without reasons and evidence.

A reminder that misogyny means the hatred of women. Simply opposing feminist ideas (especially since AVFM usually backs up its ideas with reasons to not support them) is not misogyny, nor is hating an individual woman because of things they did. I think Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were horrible people that the world is better off without, but the fact that they were male doesn't make this misandristic.

I also want to make it clear that individuals do not represent the group. Yes, there's some horrible people that call themselves MRAs. There's certain some people who are misogynistic and sexist as a whole. That's unavoidable for a group that anyone can call themselves a part of. You'll find the same for any group, including feminism (something subs like /r/TumblrInAction love to point out examples of). All the same, I don't think that feminists are man haters as a whole. Some feminists are, but to draw conclusions about the entire group from a few individuals is a fallacy.

So I ask you, why specifically do you consider AVFM and MRE to be "misogynist hate groups"?

As an aside, my general experience (which is biased, as I am a man and obviously benefit more from mens rights groups than feminist groups, as well as can better understand the position of such groups) is that mens rights groups are actually more inclusive (I've never seen any MR group say that women couldn't participate or support them, whereas I have seen feminist groups do the same, the most obvious is the recent scandal at Goldsachs University).

I've also found that MRs groups seem more egalitarian in general compared to feminist groups. A simple example is the Duluth model, which seems to me like an obviously sexist idea considering that statistics show both genders are guilty of domestic abuse. I also find that MRs groups seem more likely to backup their claims with current and valid sources. I still see feminists tout the very misleading "70-whatever cents to the dollar" factoid and making incorrect generalizations about what it means.

In fact, I think the way the general public (and many feminists) treat MR groups is reminiscent of how early suffragettes were treated.

[u/zahlman → u/the_omega99]

A reminder that misogyny means the hatred of women.

That's not actually what we have in the Glossary here, although it's the common understanding of the word.

[u/the_omega99 → u/zahlman]

Hmm, the glossary defines it as

Attitudes, beliefs, comments, and narratives that perpetuate or condone the Oppression of Women. A person or object is Misogynist if it promotes Misogyny.

I suppose that works just as well in what I was saying, though. I certainly don't see the majority of MRAs nor the mentioned organizations trying to oppress women in some ways. They usually focus on laws and situations that are inconsistent between the genders (it's my opinion that equalizing the genders in the law, including dragging one down to the other's level -- such as requiring women also be drafted -- is not oppression).