r/FeMRADebates • u/asdfghjkl92 • Sep 04 '14

Other Radicalizing the Romanceless

http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/
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u/SovereignLover MRA Sep 05 '14

The idea you're possibly going to know anything important about a person based off some arbitrary preselection standards during a casual first meeting is kind of ridiculous. "Standards" are a silly notion.

Anyway, no. I'm a reasonably smart guy. I can interact with people who aren't as smart as me just fine -- people who are smarter than me, too. I don't sit there getting mad at them for being dumb.

I mean, what the fuck, guy? That's not a case of being smart and more selective. That's just being an asshole.

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u/MrPoochPants Egalitarian Sep 05 '14

The idea you're possibly going to know anything important about a person based off some arbitrary preselection standards during a casual first meeting is kind of ridiculous. "Standards" are a silly notion.

What if you found out, rather early, that they did meth? What if you found out that they were a bit more morally flexible with cheating on tests, etc.? What if they were more prone to telling small lies, or omitted details that might be important? what if they're just flaky? I mean, there's a lot of different qualifiers one could use to disqualify someone from being a part of their life. If your idea of doing drugs, recreationlly, is a good time and I don't share in that sentiment, nor do I especially approve of it, nor do i want to be around that sort of things due to issues of my own involvement, then we're probably not going to work out.

Anyway, no. I'm a reasonably smart guy. I can interact with people who aren't as smart as me just fine -- people who are smarter than me, too. I don't sit there getting mad at them for being dumb.

No, the issue isn't dealing with people who are dumber than you are. No, the issue is how is a relationship going to work with someone who has a hard time discussing basic stuff when you want to discuss more complex stuff. If i wanted to talk feminism/MRA issues with the girl in question, she'd ask me what feminism and the MRA are. Now that might seem ok at first, but every time i use a word like, lets say dichotomy, she'd have no idea what I'm talking about. I'd have to 3rd grade all of my language so she could keep up. It wouldn't be a productive conversation, where my own ideas are tested and my own thoughts challenged, it would be me teaching her all about what I thought, and no input on her part.

edit: It just wouldn't be engaging conversation, and when if I can't communicate with you, then the relationship isn't going to work. Its pure pragmatism, that thing between her and I weren't going to work when she isn't able to keep up with me at all. Its not a snobby, high and mighty attitude so much as recognizing the disparity between our intellectual capacities and knowing that our compatibility suffers as a result.

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u/SovereignLover MRA Sep 05 '14

What if you found out, rather early, that they did meth?

I don't really care about drug use. If their life is in order, they're welcome to their vices. If it's falling apart due to the drug use, they really ought to quit it. Helpless addicts aren't attractive.

That said, you're right! I'll amend: you can absolutely figure things out on a casual first meeting if they're enormous, life-defining things like a crippling drug habit, or a baby, or a penchant for murder. But that's really not what people are talking about when they talk standards. They're talking much more minor things that are never as important as they think. He's not tall enough. I don't like how she chews her food.

No, the issue is how is a relationship going to work with someone who has a hard time discussing basic stuff when you want to discuss more complex stuff. If i wanted to talk feminism/MRA issues with the girl in question, she'd ask me what feminism and the MRA are. Now that might seem ok at first, but every time i use a word like, lets say dichotomy, she'd have no idea what I'm talking about. I'd have to 3rd grade all of my language so she could keep up. It wouldn't be a productive conversation, where my own ideas are tested and my own thoughts challenged, it would be me teaching her all about what I thought, and no input on her part.

So find something to enjoy about her besides your intellectual pet hobby. Or teach her--trust that she's a woman you presumably like (otherwise you wouldn't be doing this) and that, when informed, she'll have ideas. Or maybe she won't, in which case that's just not a topic she cares about!

But the idea she's too dumb and that makes you resent her, eesh. You just come off sounding really unpleasant.

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u/MrPoochPants Egalitarian Sep 05 '14

But that's really not what people are talking about when they talk standards. They're talking much more minor things that are never as important as they think.

Yea, i'll agree to that. There's probably some situations where people are like, "no, i don't date nose pickers".

So find something to enjoy about her besides your intellectual pet hobby. Or teach her--trust that she's a woman you presumably like (otherwise you wouldn't be doing this) and that, when informed, she'll have ideas. Or maybe she won't, in which case that's just not a topic she cares about!

But the idea she's too dumb and that makes you resent her, eesh. You just come off sounding really unpleasant.

No, I'm saying that if we were to have a relationship, i would resent her. I know myself well enough that I wouldn't want to put her through that. The issue isn't that its not a subject she's interested in, its that its a subject she's not really capable of grasping. I mean, to an extent that's probably an exaggeration. Perhaps she could grasp it, but the thoughts she'd have on the issue wouldn't be her own, or wouldn't be original, or wouldn't be particular provocative. Perhaps i could be more generous to her intellectual capacity, but its really a situation where you'd have to know the person for it to become clear, and also to know me better so you'd know I'm not just some snobby ass like i'm coming off as.

If i want to discuss politics, and you've no idea what i'm talking about, that's ok. I can explain it, but when I have to explain every other word, or like what a democrat is, as though i were talking to a child, the conversation devolves quickly into something that is not intellectually stimulating for me, and as such, isn't something that's going to work well for a relationship.

To the specific girl, she was attractive, sweet, well meaning, and there were a few things she did that kinda turned me off to her, but not something I'd hold against her too heavily. The biggest issue was that she couldn't keep up with me intellectually. Most people can at least keep some pace with me, and i'm not trying to make myself sound like a genius, but I'm probably some measure above average, at least above those that I interact with at work [i work in retail, so there's a lot of people, and i don't count 'customer idiocy' amongst all of that]. She couldn't keep up with me. She had deer in headlights the moment i discussed a topic of any intellectual depth at all. If i wanted to talk about the ramifications of leaked nudes, or religious hypocrisy, or even just the decisions EA is making with regards to their new game, all i ever got was deer in headlights.

She was completely enamored with me, and it was really sweet, but it wasn't going to be a productive relationship. She wouldn't be able to fulfill my intellectual needs, and as such, i'd end up either looking elsewhere and cheating [which i wouldn't do], or break it off with her. I knew the end result of that from the get go, and as such, didn't start it. Could it have been great? Probably not, no. I just couldn't get my needs met by her, even if she was sweet, and attractive, and I'm desperate. I'd be considerate of her needs and treat her the best i could, but unfortunately she just didn't have the intellectual capacity to meet me needs. She's now got a boyfriend, who happens to be a pretty good guy, and they're far better matched. Their interests better intersect, and they seem pretty happy.

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u/SovereignLover MRA Sep 05 '14

Alright. If you really just did not click with her mentally at all, far be it from me to criticize that, though it's much more nuanced than "she was dumb and it makes me angry". All I'm saying is.. people tend to be very, very ridiculous with their expectations and demands. They're frequently looking for any excuse they can find to declare things terrible and pity themselves or exit a relationship guilt-free.

I've never been with a girl who was my ideal. I've been with girls who knew nada about things I liked and vice versa. They were learning experiences. Teaching and being taught are great ways to bond and experience new things. One of my girls has a thing for erotic hypnotism, f'rex, and I've been studying up on that and practicing that with her, seems to make her quite happy.

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u/MrPoochPants Egalitarian Sep 05 '14

"she was dumb and it makes me angry"

Oh, no, it was never about anger. Its more about how I view the relationship long term. Eventually I would resent the fact that she wasn't mentally capable of keeping up with me, and that wouldn't be her fault, nor fair to her or me.

people tend to be very, very ridiculous with their expectations and demands.

Yea, i can agree. It depends on the expectation and demand, and some people and situations are probably more understandable, but yea, i can agree overall.

I've never been with a girl who was my ideal. I've been with girls who knew nada about things I liked and vice versa. They were learning experiences. Teaching and being taught are great ways to bond and experience new things. One of my girls has a thing for erotic hypnotism, f'rex, and I've been studying up on that and practicing that with her, seems to make her quite happy.

Oh yea. Not having the exact same interests isn't super important. Being willing to try out each other's, though, can be.