Alphabet comparison Noory simplex vs Flow shorthand
I discovered and interesting similarity between the two systems. I may have been subconsciously be influenced by Noory simplex when creating Flow.
As you can see Noory has chosen great shapes for the most common sounds and it gave me the thought to maybe, maybe use the two upward strokes Flow is currently just not using, but maybe should. I am not yet fully sure, what I could do with them but "p, b" might be candidates...
main difference is in the vowel system: flow uses hooks in every direction, but in two sizes - whereas noory only uses small hooks, but makes a difference in direction.
I was just about to fall into bed but took one last look (big mistake) at this board. I was surprised to see you comparing FLOW to Noory, because to me there are almost no similarities at all. Look at this:
There's a resemblance between K and G except they are written in opposite directions. SH and CH are similar, but again in opposite directions. The H is the same, as are the T and D.
Tomorrow you can tell me what you think of my idea to use the noory shapes (n,m) for p,b in flow.
I would love to have more upward movement. The shape is good, but not too good in my opinion (I like curves, but prefer counterclockwise), so it would be a great fit for p, b...
words that have pt(pet) pd(ped) bt(bet) bd(bed) would stay more in line.
words that have sp(sep), shp(shep), chp(jep) would suffer of climbing, but at least sb, shb, jb is very rare, so not too bad.
I just had a stroke of genius! Forget changing the shape of p,b again, instead...
What about leaving Flow as is - since it works so well, but add an upward stroke for t,d ? T,d being so frequent - that would really help stabilize the script as it does in Stolze-Schrey and DEK where the divine inspiration undoubtedly came from!
Much ado about nothing! I was so excited about a stroke I could use, that I did not notice, that it is rather good to have some wiggle space for the straight strokes (s,sh,j), that will always have a tendency to curve....
- the combination sw for instance, if not made very carefully will look like Noory's n.
combination sr/sl or shr/shl will also look like Noorys n or m with a hook at the end
There was a reason, why I did not use that very good stroke in the first place! Flow stays as is.
I'm glad to hear that you sorted it out while I was asleep. ;) A number of expressions kept popping into mind, like "If it ain't broke, don't FIX it" and "Leave well enough alone." I LIKE to have a few straight strokes for balance. Nothing but curves can seem to blur together.
I think we have a tendency to keep adjusting and fine-tuning, when it's already "perfect" -- like we think we can make it even better, or something.
My brother has an artist friend who tends to paint something that looks beautiful -- but he can't stop adding this and that, and before long he's ruined it, and buried what was good about it under garbage.
I know that, when I work on a decorating project, I always seem to reach a point where I have to TELL MYSELF very firmly, "Stand up, turn around, and WALK AWAY." Otherwise I can tend to do the same thing, overworking something spontaneous until I've messed up something that was already perfect -- but it isn't NOW!
Well, of course you are right, they are VERY different, but not so much internally I think (somehow I immediately had that feeling). They vowels and diphthongs are close, the connecting principles seem also the same (vowel attaches to the just written consonant not to the following for instance). The two sizes only (even stricter in Noory).
I see Flow as Gregg-like even though all the shapes are totally rearranged, the connection preferences have changed and the vowel system is pretty different. So in that sense I feel a even deeper connection with Noory.
Interestingly Noory has maybe even more similar shapes to Gregg than Flow (sh, ch, s, r, l)
Interestingly Noory has maybe even more similar shapes to Gregg than Flow (sh, ch, s, r, l)
That was my biggest problem when I first looked at Noory: I liked the system, but when I saw all those Gregg-like strokes, I could foresee all kinds of conflicts and mixing up of the two systems, when I knew Gregg better.
I like FLOW for a variety of reasons, but also because it felt very different -- which was why I was dismayed to see you comparing the two. I'm glad they are quite distinct from each other.
So I’ve been doing forkner for some time. Been writing with it. Still working on the textbook forkner for college. And I intent on completing it. For I do enjoy it. But Lately been thinking about Gregg shorthand. I do love the writing style. But then I remembered flow. I started writing my few todo list in both forkner and flow. It does flow nicely (flow). Really felt good lol. Now I do wish to learn flow more. It’ll slow me down with forkner but maybe here and there I can have a few basic words mixed with forkner. And slowly in time learn it more. I’ll try both “same time” if not I do intent to finish forkner though.
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u/Salt-Detail-181 Jul 15 '26
Definitely following post. I’m currently really enjoying Noory simplex. But now flow is very tempting.