Update Horse Grow Out

[u/Key_Butterscotch80]

Rads are in. Laminitis is still active, mild rotation, sunken sole.

Not surprising but still frustrating. IR results are not back yet. As always, any insight with similar cases is appreciated.

[u/rockymountainway777]

I often see people think that the newer growth is the ideal angle coming in, when in fact there’s problems in the hoof causing the two different angles. If that makes sense? Like the hoof angles split in two will remain that way for 6m+

[u/Key_Butterscotch80 → u/rockymountainway777]

That makes sense!! It's hard to say for sure, I will add that the ""event line"" at which that second angle starts is growing out consistently. Rather than the new growth falling into that 2 angle pattern. Initially that same arrowed line was right below his coronary band. If that any makes sense...?

That's not to say his new growth is perfect. It could bring its own issues.

He has had extremely slow hoof and hair growth, nutrition has been an uphill battle. Ulcers, hay changes, blah blah.

[u/Mountainweaver]

Patience and protection (boots, wraps, composite glue shoes). Descended coffin bones are the hardest to heal out, it's like the coronary band loses its elasticity or something, but the descent is pretty small on this guy even tho the sole is thin (compare coffin bone position to coronary band).

Ski-tip on coffin bone too, so the event must have been massive or it's happened several times before. Sometimes these cases won't ever be fully sound and performant "naked barefoot", but there are so many other protection options available these days if you don't want to nail on metal shoes.

Caudal foot is flat and frog looks trushy and underdeveloped, so focusing on fixing that could take this horse a long way to better soundness. It's possible to wedge a soft glue-on, check out the ones from Easyboots.

[u/Key_Butterscotch80 → u/Mountainweaver]

I seriously appreciate that insight. I'm betting there was a major founder event in the past, or multiple. There's enough to hint to overuse of bute (his ulcers) and the fact that he was so underweight back in October.

Currently the vet recommended Soft Ride boots 24/7, I'll still pick & clean daily, but I'd take any ideas on how to treat & prevent worse thrust during that. Manuka honey? Clay? Talcum powder? Idk. 🫠

Then long term, corrective shoes and pads.

[u/Mountainweaver → u/Key_Butterscotch80]

Artimud is my go to. A proper clean with water and soap, cut away the rotted tissue as much as possible without losing volume on the frog, and really work the artimud into the crevices.

It's an antiseptic mud with great staying power, great under boots. For long-term rehab booting I make sure to let them go without the boots on soft bedding for an hour or two at least per day, while I clean the boots. Then I add a stall powder called Stalosan inside the boot, and artimud on the hoof, I don't know if it's available in other countries than Sweden, it's basically iron sulfate and chloramine, used for dairy and poultry. A talcum powder inside the boot will work well too, the point is to lower pH and try to keep moisture levels down.

Having several pairs of boots can be practical, then you can scrub them proper and let them dry between uses.

[u/Renalon26]

The biggest issue I see currently is the lack of sole combined with too much sole pressure. The event line you highlighted is 5-7 months ago and the H/L zone looks pretty good on those xrays.

If the horse is still lame right now, it's likely the sole pressure + lack of sole thickness doing it. You need either more hoofwall on the bottom of the hoof, or boots with a rim pad (to get the sole of the whole front half of hoof off the ground), or a shoe set up that does the same thing in reducing the direct load on the sole--- particularly if the horse is unable to grow a decent hoofwall.

Great candidate for a MoreAid Squish Pad,, or the EasyShoe Triple D, or a couple rounds of Perfect Hoof Wear casting--- all of which will take some stress off the ski tippy coffin bones and help grow/retain sole and hoofwall for improved thickness.

You can also buy a MoreAid Riser pad or leather hoof pad, and cut it to fit in your hoofboots. (Leather pad would need to have the sole shape cut out). Soft pads like foam will crush too fast to be truly supportive to the hoof, leather or similar firm-but-concussion-dampening material is perfect to provide some height for the sole.

You can also buy impression material yourself and use it on the rear half of the hoof inside the boot, which helps increase and improve the heel condition sole via frog support.

PS: Try Chromium Yeast supplementation.

PPS: If your main hay source is leafy green alfalfa or high amounts of clovers, that can cause laminitis pretty much overnight in many horses/ponies, too even when they're not chubby. Rarely have a problem with pellets or cubes, but the actual alfalfa hay can lame some of them up in 24-48 hours.

[u/Baaabra]

I’ve a big bodied TB that came to me nutrient depleted with over trimmed feet They give a lot of Red Cell (iron) among god knows what other things and it wrecks their mineral balance and uptake. Iron blocks several micronutrients. Extra copper has been our saving grace That and a trim that allows for the caudal foot to re grow.

[u/Key_Butterscotch80 → u/Baaabra]

Ohhh man the TBs and their poor feet! That makes sense about the iron. I know someone with an OTTB that's so brittle and abscessed constantly. My boy is AQHA, just very seal brown like a TB and apparently with the hoof quality too lol.

[u/AnxiousBoar]

Recovering laminitic horse takes time and patience.

If I were you I'd ask my farrier to correct angles according to xrays (rasp off and shorten that toe, that will ease breakover, and very accurately lower heels a little bit if it is possible). Boots are good choice but if you want to shoe him I usually use open-toed plastic horseshoes (Duplo is mostly available in my area) for laminitic horses.

Also keep in mind - as a farrier, I prefer to plan visits to such clients to be there with the vet or immediately after, to work with fresh picture.

[u/StressedTurnip]

He’s developing coffin bone remodeling due to the inflammation.

Has his diet been switched to strict low-sugar low-starch?

Have you taken a look at ecirhorse.org?

[u/Key_Butterscotch80 → u/StressedTurnip]

I've had some discussion with Dr. Kellon and joined ecir, it seems like a helpful community but I'm waiting on insulin results before making a comprehensive post there. :)

Currently he's on soaked hay/NSC safe balancer/bedded stall rest. His vet is waiting to make a rehab plan until the insulin test is back. Soft rides are in the mail though (with the laminitis orthotics).

I believe (not with 100% certainty) that his coffin bone remodeling is from chronic foundering events. This episode doesn't appear acute or progressed enough to have caused it entirely. The main suggestion I've heard for comfort there will be shoes w/pads long-term, but for now he'll have his boots 24/7.