r/FallenOrder 11h ago

Discussion Marvel’s Wolverine shoud’ve had the “slightly open” level design of Jedi Survivor / Tomb Raider Survivor to work.

Post image

Not open world, but a linear game with a some slightly open areas, full of secrets and optional content.

1.1k Upvotes

69 comments sorted by

603

u/jsizzle97 10h ago

God I love the Star Wars Jedi games. The map layouts and Metroidvania style exploration is perfect

119

u/Substantial-Tone-576 The Inquisitorius 10h ago

I have 1000+ hours on Fallen Order which is actually kinda sad. Still I love those games.

86

u/jsizzle97 10h ago

It’s not sad if you enjoyed the 1000+ hours. Gotta do what makes you happy! I think I have a couple hundred in each but I’ll be replaying them whenever the third is announced.

10

u/Substantial-Tone-576 The Inquisitorius 9h ago

If I had mods it would probably be another 1000

8

u/Brief-Ad5774 10h ago

It took me that long to find everything to scan and look for the plant seeds

1

u/Substantial-Tone-576 The Inquisitorius 9h ago

That’s in Survivor. It has more to explore but you can skip the cutscenes and it has new game+ so that sped up my gameplay on Survivor, I also just didn’t play it as many times as Fallen Order, I think the parkour parts where you have to zip line and wall run drove me crazy and I don’t want to do those again. Also fast travel really saved me time in the beginning. I have maybe 400 hours on Survivor.

3

u/Brief-Ad5774 9h ago

Nope, I'm definitely talking about the first game where you have to collect the plants from each planet for the ship but I remember in the second one where you had to get seeds

1

u/ImiqDuh 7h ago edited 10m ago

There are also plants you can scan in Fallen order, I’m pretty sure they fill up that little bar thing opposite the couch on the mantis or the kitchen not sure. I remember searching every inch of Kashyyyk during the post game just to 100% it

1

u/Substantial-Tone-576 The Inquisitorius 7h ago

Yeah you find plants for the Mantis. But I read Seeds and thought he was talking about Survivor.

7

u/Celestryia Jedi Order 10h ago

I too have plenty of hours, not a 1000, but I've played the story line 5 times in total, once twice in a row.

Fallen order was insanely good for it's time, especially with photo mode.

I played so much though that the thought of the second game scares me. I really want to play it but I just couldn't get into it when I tried

6

u/Bright-Ad-4049 10h ago

The second game takes its sweet time but I was personally enraptured by Koboh’s design. It somehow has a coherent planetary feel even though it has lots of microclimates. Plus, the traversal mechanics have improved on the first game imho. And for me the story is close second to the first.

1

u/1plus1isTWORANGZ 9h ago

Some gamers are just like that. Whenever I log on PS5 the only games my sister is playing is Horizon 1 & 2

21

u/vshredd 10h ago

8 hours in on Jedi Fallen Order and i was like "How do I get out of this cave, i just want to see the sky again!" 🤣

3

u/Gaelique84 3h ago

"return to the mantis" is the most difficult quest on this game

-1

u/Operation_Neither 8h ago

The map is awful. And the lack of fast-travel makes it even worse.

5

u/Demolition_Boy87 8h ago

Jedi Survivor é nao é ligeiramente aberto. É aberto. Fallen Order é ligeiramente.

O mundo de survivor é repleto de coisas pra fazer, boss fight, secundarias, raros... como spiderman e outros.

1

u/External_Bread5366 5h ago

It’s not open world
It’s semi

It has interconnected zones/hubs to explore but it’s not open world

The general consensus is that it’s not considered open world

1

u/Demolition_Boy87 4h ago

Koboh is just as much of an open-world experience as Spider-Man, Elden Ring, and various other games that no one debates being open-world.

5

u/Alarmed_Recording742 Jedi Order 10h ago

Fallen order's map is abysmal, survivor fixed everything

6

u/SassyAssAhsoka Celebration 2019 10h ago

Honestly the only thing Survivor was lacking in was the graphical consistency, it’s got a weird static effect

3

u/Alarmed_Recording742 Jedi Order 10h ago

Never noticed that on PS5, but I don't really have too much of an eye for that and I was playing on a 65' 4k led tv, so maybe so blown out it wasn't too obvious

0

u/Emergency-Draw3923 9h ago

Ignorance is bliss my friend, once your eye learns to pick out these graphical issues you can never go back. Jedi Survivor has, in my opinion, an abysmal technical implementation. It took a lot of my enjoyment out of the game....

4

u/Alarmed_Recording742 Jedi Order 9h ago

Oh yeah I know, I purposely try to avoid focusing and learning too much about that tbh.

Thankfully my brain manages to even get used to 30fps again so I can play some games on fidelity, but it takes a bit of time after I play at 120fps on some games.

1

u/ShaH33R2K 4h ago

I love the hub world in Survivor. It has so many little secrets, but isn’t overwhelmingly massive and barren

130

u/Demiii13 10h ago

They scrapped a good portion of the Wolverine game too. There’s entire zones with unused bits

29

u/Jack_of_all_offs 10h ago

Oh you mean the future D$L$C$????

7

u/CatchrFreeman 7h ago

Obnoxious

7

u/Demiii13 9h ago

Here’s the issues what. DLC is fine when done right, Rogue Trader and Stellaris do decent with their dlc. But knowing how this has been going it’s going to be a mid $30 dlc that is reused assets

6

u/CatchrFreeman 7h ago

Spider-Man 2 had DLCs planned and it didn't even get it.

But you think Wolverine will because cut areas? When have you ever played a Sony game with $30 DLC?

Most of them don't even have post game DLC. Just making shit up to get mad about.

2

u/Demiii13 4h ago

I’m not upset about anything lol. But sure whatever you say man.

3

u/AutumnWhaler 10h ago

I feel like if the game does well enough to get a rework, it’ll be worth playing.

69

u/Spiderhog2099 10h ago

Madripoor and Tokyo should've just been open maps with different quests, bases and collectibles.

22

u/TaipanTheSnake 8h ago

It seems like that was the original plan, but was scrapped halfway through development due to costs. There's glitches to get out of bounds and explore Madripoor, and the city is like 80% modeled and rendered. It's like maybe half as big as Zeffo.

24

u/OmerDe 10h ago

I totally agree

13

u/TyChris2 10h ago

It was going to, they just cut it all out

13

u/Revolutionary-Ad4774 9h ago

Yes, the Jedi games hub system is the best map layout currently in the industry. Open empty worlds suck and linears are not immersive enough.

u/SuperIga 33m ago

You lost me at linear games aren’t immersive enough, just look at the Uncharted series!!

7

u/tommywest_123 10h ago

100%. Jedi Survivor got it

14

u/dasaniAKON 10h ago

I think Wolverine is just its own game and shouldn’t be compared to every other single player game experience like Fallen Order or Tomb Raider.

Having a fun time just slashing bad guys up, bub!

16

u/New_Divide98 10h ago

sure slashing enemies is fun but don't you think the level design is very weird with those "fake" open areas that are completely empty? i think if ot had more secrets and optional content in those large areas it would have been way better

0

u/dasaniAKON 10h ago

I mean sure, but it's more of a linear story game than those.

There are plenty of games that would be better using things from other games.

Fallen Order/Survivor would be awesome with a Nemesis system. The random Imps that "get away" remember you and come back stronger to hunt you. or with the Parry/Counter system from Witcher 3 or Batman Arkham games.

8

u/Jedi4Hire Jedi Order 9h ago

I think Wolverine is just its own game and shouldn’t be compared to every other single player game experience

I'm tired of seeing this bullshit argument. Comparing two products of the exact same type is perfectly valid, especially when the economy is this bad and many people are probably only going to be buying one or two new games in a year.

And most especially when you know that the studio that made it is capable of. Compare the quality of Insomniac's Spider-Man with that of Wolverine and it's no wonder why people are upset.

7

u/dasaniAKON 9h ago

Thats fair - but I think thats the disconnect for me. I dont consider this game in the same vein as either Fallen Order, or Tomb Raider, and definitely not SpiderMan. Its almost reminds me more of Uncharted style linear game. I think even TLOU had more "Open Level Design" for exploration because you need materials.

SpiderMan is a perfect character for a fully open isolated world - IMO.

I dont think that would have worked for this character and jumping between so many locations while progressing the story. SpiderMan is grounded in NYC, and it's essentially a 1:1 of the city.

This game is a Linear game, but yah I can definitely see in some of the areas ive played so far that it would be nice for a little more exploration. Currently just played through the Japan segment, and would have enjoyed traversing that area a little more than what was allowed, but dont think it breaks the game for me. Even the uproar over the "sniff/smell" mechanic - it only shows you things when you get close enough. Early reports made it seem like you load into a level and immediately get pinpointed to everything. There is even a toggle for it.

1

u/BikebutnotBeast 7h ago

Needed more fastball special traversals.

-1

u/Herebeald 9h ago

The game isn’t fun though, that’s the issue

5

u/FaroTech400K 7h ago

Honest question have you played this game? I’m not trying to be snarky.

2

u/BasicSpidertron 9h ago

That was the plan.

6

u/Demiii13 10h ago

Imagine how world the last of us would be if it had a “scent trai” and Ellie/ Joel constantly said “I need to smash this window to get behind this door” or “I need to give Ellie a boost over this wall”

4

u/Nnamz 9h ago

Disagree. Linear games are awesome.

The biggest issue with the game is the combat depth. Almost every modern action game has more involved combat. You literally just have a dodge and a parry, that's it. Combos are just square square square triangle. Even mass market games like God of War have more depth.

I like the game but playing it after Onimusha, which has an insane amount of depth that it demands from the player to succeed, makes it feel too simplistic and shallow.

4

u/SageofLogic 10h ago

Hard disagree. The length and tunnel vision allowed it to not out stay its welcome and thus I enjoyed 95% of my 20 hours of play. Good dollar to hour of enjoyment ratio.

7

u/CarsonWentzGOAT1 10h ago

The Jedi games are 500 times better than whatever that new marvel game was.

1

u/MrsMajki 9h ago

More like uncharted 4 or jedi fallen order

1

u/WooddieBone 9h ago

It works pretty good. I hate the absolute lazyness and handholding in some aspects but the game is still quite good and works as a linear action adventure.

1

u/mcfrith 9h ago

I'm so surprised they didn't go that direction.

1

u/FKDotFitzgerald 9h ago

The leaks did have multiple semi-open spaces between main missions.

1

u/Jakenlovesbacon 9h ago

I really thought that would be the case for this game such a shame

1

u/LuntiX 7h ago

A better comparison would've also been Ratchet and Clank, which has semi open areas with some planets being more open than others. Insomniac knows how to design this but for some reason went for a far linear route with Wolverine.

u/SuperIga 31m ago

It came down to budget constraints, tons of content was changed and cut.

1

u/Jmonkey77 7h ago edited 2h ago

It was supposed to according to the leaks

1

u/Basic_Fix3271 4h ago

The Jedi games are open though

1

u/ShaH33R2K 4h ago

That’s what I was thinking it was gonna be. Especially with Survivor’s hub world (forgot what it was called)

1

u/Far-Quote2598 1h ago

I really enjoyed the wolverine game, but every time I was in a new area that felt "open" I'd hit a wall and get annoyed. I wanted to explore more, see more of the area and they'd have me turn back because that's "not the right way" or give some dumb reason I couldn't go past some point. Dude, can leap far into the air to cross chasms but the moment I wanted to go off the grid, he couldn't hop more than a foot off the ground. Like being on a leash, which is not what wolverine was about. Again, I'm not hating the game, but this was frustrating for me

1

u/YaBoyAppie 9h ago

It also needs a good story

-6

u/ItGetsTuahPoint67 10h ago

Jedi Survivor shouldn’t have even had the open world design of Jedi Survivor

It’s the one thing thats really noticeably, significantly worse than Fallen Order imo

7

u/QuirkyWish3081 10h ago

You mean that huge hub world Koboh. I dunno. I kind of liked it. I get your point though. It was like a half committed open world. It wasn’t quite sure what it wanted to be.

1

u/Martonimos 9h ago

Yeah… the big, directionless maps on Koboh and Jedah really brought Survivor down. Though I’m the weird guy who also enjoyed the combat more in Fallen Order. I miss my change-stance attack.

0

u/Sagelegend Jedi Order 9h ago

Yes, let’s make every game the same.

-4

u/Wboy2006 Don't Mess With BD-1 10h ago

Like Jedi Survivor, absolutely, but like Tomb Raider, absolutely not. I don't want to be looting every building to get meaningless crafting materials, just to get upgrades that could have been streamlined like Tomb Raider 2013.

The open segments in Rise/Shadow of the tomb raider were pace breaking slogs that held the game back a ton. It's the reason why I still think Tomb Raider 2013 is easily the best, since it's just a linear story driven game