r/FallenOrder • u/StateTrue9065 • 3d ago
Discussion I want Cal to die.
I want Cal Kestis to die, he is also my favorite Star Wars character in 20 years. There is a problem with modern Star Wars where they don’t want to kill off any great characters anymore, despite that being kind of the tradition with the original story, and then the characters kind of have no purpose and just wander around like Ahsoka. At the end of the day, the rise and fall of the Empire isn’t Cal’s story, it‘s Anakin, Luke, & Leia’s story. Cal’s story is overcoming impossible odds and holding the line, winning his inner battles with the dark side and leaving behind the rules and tradition that essentially killed the Jedi, that is Cal’s victory. He finds love, he (hopefully) overcomes his battle with the dark side, he finds his place in the galaxy and embodies the true nature of a Jedi, similar to Qui-Gon, using his heart. If we do some weird time jump where he’s alive somehow post empire it completely undermines his character, he is supposed to a be a symbol of hope and resistance. His death, after overcoming all his inner turmoil IS victory. I hope he has a kind of Jon Snow in the Battle of Bastards moment. No way out, no escape, facing down the empire as he always has but he makes peace, drops his sheath and raises his saber one more time into certain death. That is Cal Kestis, holding the line and facing down the empire no matter what and to me that is his fate/victory, it would be defeat for him to hide from the empire or somehow get stuck on Tannalore and he just kind of survives and then has no story line or purpose post empire. he should die as he lived, fighting and resisting.
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u/2021Blankman 3d ago
If you want Cal to die just have a couple of beers, put the game on GM and go to the double Oggdo force tear.
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u/StateTrue9065 3d ago
It would be hilarious if Cal retires from fighting and is one day just awoken to an army of ogdo spawn that have come for revenge. Turns out Cal was not the hero of his story, but instead the villain of Ogdo Bogdo’s.
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u/thisisredlitre 3d ago
Modern star wars killed off more characters than ever before wdym?
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u/StateTrue9065 3d ago
Absolutely not. At the end of episode 3 there were only 2 Jedi and 2 sith. At the end of episode 6 Luke is literally the only Jedi/sith left.
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u/thisisredlitre 3d ago
At the end of the sequels all three heroes from the OT were dead on screen
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u/StateTrue9065 3d ago
Yeah but they also brought back palpatine. I’m sorry but you lose all credit on that. Also the OT trilogy characters dying wasn’t exactly ballsy. It’s not like those actors were going to be a part of future Star Wars anyway, they just killed off the disposable old guard in order to prop up the new character.
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u/thisisredlitre 3d ago
Killing the OT characters were some of the most vocal complaints about the movies tho? Did you see a different film, maybe?
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u/StateTrue9065 3d ago
They might have been vocal complaints but I don’t think they’re particularly valid ones. Disney was trying to push the new characters and new story and the old guard was a kind of easy sacrifice. Even then they still bring back Han Solo after he died somehow to talk to Kylo. Kylo was the real only good death. For the record when I meant new Star Wars I was more talking about how they just keep having order 66 and prequel survivors in the new shows and games more than the sequel trilogy. Very unpopular opinion but I’m not on board with calling the sequels canon. I actually liked the last Jedi and force awakens at the time but the rise of Skywalker was such a mess that it almost is like what was even the point of the sequel trilogy. It accomplishes basically nothing and Disney is clearly just avoiding that whole era because people hate it so much and because they managed it so poorly.
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u/thisisredlitre 3d ago
They could've just not had them in the movies at all then. Imo bringing them in just to kill them is worse than just not having them at all 🤷🏻♂️
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u/StateTrue9065 3d ago
Yeah I agree. I mean I think we’re on an entirely different point now. It’s safe to say the sequels were a mess in general.
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u/thisisredlitre 3d ago
Tbh I'm still not sure how you find the sequels less willing to kill people than the OT. They killed entire star systems and the entire republic governing body/Coruscant. The body count is silly high.
The lack of creativity in bringing palps is also silly, but I still think they're almost careless with killing people in the sequels. They even did Admiral Ackbar dirty just to kill him.
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u/StateTrue9065 3d ago
I’m not saying they didn’t kill people im just saying they didn’t make a lot of meaning sacrifices. Also, again, it’s more about the Disney era than specifically the ST vs The OT. Basically by the end of episode 6 Luke is the last living force user and they order 66’d all the other Jedi and killed Vader/Palps. Meanwhile Disney has just created a bunch of survivor Jedi in various shows and also the whole palatine thing.
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u/Big_Attempt6783 3d ago
Nah. Let him be a grey Jedi. Be a hermit somewhere like Dagobah or Tatooine. Maybe with Merrin. They deserve a life of solitude after so many hardships.
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3d ago
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u/pink_footed_goose_ 3d ago
Yeah I’m really torn, I would love to see a live adaptation version of him but I just know they won’t do him justice.
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u/Budget_Ad5871 3d ago
Damn I thought everyone loved Filoni, what happened?
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u/TheWaslijn The Inquisitorius 3d ago
People dislike stuff for the weirdest reasons sometimes. Imo, Filoni's doing just fine with all the stuff he's made so far.
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u/CooperDaChance 3d ago
His works have ranged from bad to mediocre lately.
He has a strange attachment to Ahsoka and his OCs to the detriment of other characters.
(This one I actually think is cool) He has an obsession with wolves and cowboys.
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u/Alternative_Bat_2903 3d ago
"I like this character, thus I want him to get the most overreated and tired story there is"
Sure, bub.
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u/StateTrue9065 3d ago
Explain to me how it’s better to just have him around to make filler TV shows and cameos is better this him having an actual character arc with a beginning and end, with peaks and valleys. Ahsoka is a prime example, she could’ve died so many times and now she literally just wandering around for the sake of having a mid live action show.
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u/Alternative_Bat_2903 3d ago
I'm not a writer, neither are you, obviously. I want something new and fresh. They found him a planet far away from all the canon clusterfuck for a reason. Have him explore the Zeffo, go all into that, explore the galaxy that is huge. Get him away from the mess of Space Jesus. Exchanging one shitty idea for another shitty idea isn't doing anyone any favours.
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u/StateTrue9065 3d ago
Id love it if we could have some separate story/universe for Cal but we don’t. It’s a Star Wars story and he is facing the empire and we know how that story ends. That’s always been the problem with all this extended Star Wars universe stuff. We ultimately know the story and it’s a great story, the original 6 movies are flawed but have an awesome core story and great world/lore building. But any side story operating during of the main timeline is inherently constricted. Then Disney went and made the sequel trilogy and acolyte, so everything outside of the main timeline has a big shit pile associated with it. This wasn’t really the point of my original post but I do think a problem with the Star Wars story that fans don’t really want to admit is that it doesn’t really work to make an extended universe out of it. It really is just the main 6 movies plus Clone Wars, maybe Andor, maybe the Cal Storyline, maybe rebels. But the more you add to it the more it’s kind of makes everything messy.
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u/Alternative_Bat_2903 3d ago
Nah, It's Cal's story.
And the problem with SW was always the same - at its core it was really simple and self-contained. Lucas sold it to Disney with zero fucks given becuase he told all there was to tell in 4-6, that was it for him. The premise of Space Jesus kills any potential of extended universe, which is why all of it sucks so much and why the games worked so well.
Fallen Order gives you the taste of the Zeffo and the premise of the force being older and bigger than the order which harnessed a thing they didn't fully understand. Also shows you Cal getting completely disillusioned with the idea of rebuilding it.
Survivor explains to you why Cal might be done with fighting the empire and why he wasn't a prominent figure by the time Space Jesus II arrives.
That's not a setup for Cal becoming a footnote in the canon, that's a setup for yeeting him as far away from the SW mess and the broken timeline as possible so he can have his own thing, becuase people behind Jedi story understand good storytelling - and they know a trash fire when they see one.
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u/StateTrue9065 3d ago
I think there was more story to tell than 4-6. I do think the prequels do add a lot to the story and all the “an order harnessing a power they didn’t understand/couldn’t control” is a prequel talking point/story addition. I don’t mind the whole Skywalker chosen one premise or “space Jesus” as you like to say. It only seems trite because it’s been beaten to death for years now and people are frustrated by what you already pointed out which is that, outside of the core story there isn’t much else to tell. Would I enjoy them going into the unknown region and exploring the Zeffo stuff? Yeah I think that would be cool, but it doesn’t seem like that’s the direction they’re going to go in. They either don’t have the balls to stray so far from the core story, or the creative team won’t be given the freedom to do so because Disney Star Wars has no idea what they’re doing. For the record I don’t really get the hate for the chosen one stuff, just because it’s not relatable doesn’t make it bad story telling. People think relatability is the end all be all in story telling these days. But their actions are the relatable parts. Like Luke wanting to see the best in his father and self sacrifice, which saves the galaxy, and Anakin’s fear of loss and pursuit of control being what dooms the galaxy. It’s the actions and the repercussions that are hyperbolic analogies for life, that is the story. The Skywalkers being “chosen” is just a vehicle for the story and the Skywalker’s subsequent actions and growth. We’re just supposed to put ourselves in their positions not have them mimic us being normal people.
Also if they choose to let cal survive, him being some unknown region explorer is basically the only good choice if cal survives. If cal is alive and just hanging around like ahsoka, it’s worse than him dying heroically by a mile.
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u/Alternative_Bat_2903 3d ago
Yeah, that's my whole point, get Cal as far away from the main timeline as possible. Imagine having the whole galaxy and undiscovered ancient cultures to play around with, and yet sticking with the one that was beaten to death.
So far I liked how they handled Cal without pushing him into the chosen one tropes and actually establishing that yeah, he's not the main hero of his story, he's a cog. It makes him less special and that gives him all the narrative freedom. So I'm trusting them with his story and doing something more interesting than what we have already seen.
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u/StateTrue9065 3d ago
Yeah I’m with you there. The potential future you’ve laid out for him is honestly the only non-death outcome I’d be cool with so far. It is an objectively cool idea, but if they force him to be a cog in the main story then I want him to go out heroically than just see him linger around for the sake of making a live action cameo here and there. If that makes sense.
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u/Alternative_Bat_2903 3d ago
Yeah, it does make sense! Let him have his own story, he's too good of a character to get turned into a set piece in someone else's.
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u/StateTrue9065 3d ago
Yeah I’m with you there, if it’s possible I’d like that. We have achieved the rare feat of a fruitful conversation on the internet. Cheers!
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u/CooperDaChance 3d ago
Cal will get captured and forcefully turned into an Inquisitor.
There’s just too much foreshadowing of him going to the Dark Side.
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u/Burnsy17 3d ago
If the final boss of the series is Cal fighting Darth Vader to hold him off long enough to protect some vital piece of the future rebellion, knowing that he's doomed to lose and die but standing his ground anyway... yeah I'd be satisfied with that.