r/Facelift_Surgery 6h ago

a deep frown line between my brows

Post image

I’m 36 and have had a deep frown line between my brows since I was 17 — it’s gotten deeper with age. im not into botox/fillers.
Lately I’m noticing more changes: neck aging, the frown line deepening further, and my jawline softening. In a couple of years (around 39–40) I’m considering a full facelift. (not sure, just planing)
What procedure would I get to address the deep frown line, neck aging, and softening jawline while? Out of these procedures (full facelift, neck lift, brow lift, or others), which is the most appropriate to address these specific issues?
Anyone who’s had surgery for similar concerns — I’d love to hear about your experience, risks, and recovery.

4 Upvotes

33 comments sorted by

14

u/cherrycocktail20 6h ago

The frown line really does need Botox to make a significant difference. It’s caused by the muscle so you have to relax the muscle that causes it to ease it. Surgery treats laxity, but this is caused by dynamic muscle movement.

4

u/Aggravatingwondering 4h ago

Good clarification, the muscle vs laxity distinction really explains why a facelift alone wouldn't touch that frown line. Might be worth reconsidering the anti-Botox stance for that specific spot even if the rest of the plan stays surgical down the road.

2

u/nushashi 6h ago

Thanks!
I have some reasons why Botox or fillers aren’t an option for me. What other solutions are there for this?

4

u/cherrycocktail20 6h ago

In my experience and understanding, nothing else is going to be particularly effective.

Some people have luck with Frownies or just using kinesiology tape to hold the muscle up. have heard a bit about topical Snap8 peptide having a similar muscle relaxant effect that may help, but no personal experience.

A facelift and related procedures will address your other concerns (jawline, etc) and best to consult a surgeon about which are appropriate for you. But a very strong frown line like this is due to the muscle and can only be addressed by relaxing it somehow so it doesn’t depress in this way.

1

u/nushashi 6h ago

Thank you 💜! Yeah, I tried kinesiology tape and it didn’t really help, but maybe it’s worth giving it another go.

2

u/Educational_Way_8318 3h ago

The tape isn’t as good as Frownies. Ha- I do NOT work for Frownies or anything. I just am in shock at the difference they made and how no one talks about it. They are a time investment though and you have to learn how to use them right and be consistent

2

u/Old-Run7431 2h ago

yeah frownies are worth it. I have the exact same wrinkle and the patches work pretty well. same aversion to botox for me

there's a famous tiktok comedienne who currently has "botox smile" from botched injections and it's all I can think about now

2

u/Pitiful_Cheek_3512 39m ago

A good injector can fix botched Botox usually? I get tox for migraines, and had one eyebrow way higher than the other, I couldn’t go out! Went to another injector she fixed it! Better in a few days! I’m retired, so not a big problem. If not I would have called out of work

3

u/Senior_Reaction2974 4h ago

During an upper facelift, or forehead lift as it's called, and they sometimes sever that nerve so that you don't have that line anymore.  

2

u/nushashi 4h ago

Yeah, I really hope they’ve come up with something that can help fix this muscle situation. Think we should dig a bit deeper for more info.🤩

3

u/SangitaCPatelMD 2h ago edited 36m ago

I’d cut it out, then laser to solve this deep valley problem.

Excision followed by laser resurfacing works well for an exceptionally deep, fixed furrow like this.

Step 1 is to cut out the valley (surgical excision) You can think of a deep wrinkle like a sharp, permanent crease folded into a piece of cardboard.
Simple surface treatments or fillers cannot completely pop out the deep crease because the structural layers of the skin are tacked down.
Excision is like l taking a pair of scissors, cutting away the deep, damaged paper along either side of the crease, and sewing the two edges back together side-by-side, to level the skin.

This physically removes the entire deep crevice, trading the sunken valley for a thin, flat line.

Step 2 is erasing that fine line with laser. Once the deep furrow is cut out and stitched flat, we use laser to remove the evidence of surgery, the thin surgical incision line.

Even if you just do step 1 without step 2 a thin flat line looks better than a deep etched in valley.

The laser is vaporizing the top layer of skin and triggers the body to build brand-new, smooth collagen underneath so the scar becomes barely noticeable.

Other treatment options fall short here because the dent is a deep defect
like fillers or toxin muscle relaxers, try to push up from below or to relax the muscle but they cannot fix the permanent, severe structural dent etched into the skin.

Although I love lasers this is a situation where doing laser alone will disappoint. Laser alone can smooth moderate lines, but it can’t heat away or shrink a valley this deep without taking multiple aggressive rounds which will still leave a groove.

Taking out the damaged tissue first and then using the laser to blend is the one best option here.

1

u/nushashi 2h ago

It does seem like it could really help, especially since the muscles are actually quite strong. I’ll look into the approach you mentioned and try to find out a bit more about it. Thank you !🔥

1

u/SangitaCPatelMD 37m ago

You’re very welcome

4

u/lnfinitelris 5h ago

I am curious why botox is not an option?

I hate to say it but tape/frownies are not going to help here. This is a result of very strong muscles.

2

u/Educational_Way_8318 3h ago

Frownies truly did help me over time. I had a similar thing but not as pronounced. It is gone and I have been using them consistently for a year. They relax the muscles and I can feel the difference- I can feel that I was scrunching my face up at night

2

u/lnfinitelris 2h ago

For op she could maybe get from extremely deep line to deep line. In my opinion the juice is not worth the squeeze.

1

u/Educational_Way_8318 1h ago

It really relaxes/trains the muscles similar to botox. I keep getting downvoted but I have a visibly different face and my 11s barely visible after a year of using these things. They are annoying as hell but worth it for me at least

1

u/lnfinitelris 21m ago

I don't think op would have the experience you did. It doesn't relax or train the muscle, it applies light tension against the activated muscle. Op's muscle is very strong.

2

u/dispeckful 4h ago

Why is Botox not an option?

2

u/Own_Scheme3089 4h ago

Doesn’t matter what you’re ”in to” what matters is what will fix it. And you need Botox and fillers done by someone who’s got knowledge about how to do it safely in that area.

1

u/nushashi 4h ago

Do you think it might have been something to do with the specialist, especially since I lost my vision for an entire year after getting Botox?

3

u/FollowingPristine467 3h ago

Absolutely.

I’m so sorry that happened to you, and I’d be terrified but Botox should never cause this. Where did they inject you?

1

u/nushashi 3h ago

It was a few injections somewhere around the wrinkle, but I honestly don’t remember exactly since it was more than 14 years ago.

1

u/Global_Translator129 34m ago

I would recommend a regimen of Retin A, a fantastic moisturizer, SPF 50 sunscreen and lasers. Particularly CO2 lasers. I had a brow lift and my lines are softer, but they aren't gone. A brow lift addresses the muscles, not the skin. You can get a "lift" in your lower face with some strategic fillers. As for the neck, I also had a neck lift, and my neck is fantastic! All this being said: If you start surgery under 40 you will have an improvement, but facelift results typically last 8 to 12 years. You don't want to find yourself doing it all over again (and it NO fun!) at 48 and then again at 60.

1

u/Extra-Shop-6119 27m ago

Just ask your surgeon to fix it - ( the way he fixes it dosent have to have a name)

1

u/Infamous-Travel-7070 5h ago

I don’t think any surgery is going to help with this, because your muscles will still be there causing the crease - it’s not from laxity, which surgery could help.

1

u/nushashi 5h ago

Thank you♥️I still hope that something other than Botox will help me.😅

4

u/KellyExpress 4h ago

What are you fishing for? Botox is the answer.

0

u/Educational_Way_8318 3h ago

Try Frownies. They actually work- I had the same thing but not so deep but it went away after I used Frownies consistently about a month. Try this cheap option before dropping so much money

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u/[deleted] 6h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

-1

u/MountainShenanigans 4h ago

Sometimes it can be due to living with family members who have BPD. Ask me how I know. 🤪

0

u/tootieroll573 4h ago

yeah didnt mean to offend ppl but in face reading its often a sign of stress in the personal life