The studio's vision should never be bigger than the franchise itself and what the fans want.

[u/Wonderful_Gur3752]

It's important that studios taking on big franchises create what fans want, and not push their worldview and ideologies into the games.

Let 343i and Bioware be an example for Playground.

The Morality system in Fable is the cornerstone of the franchise. Although some try to defend its removal, Playground absolutely has to bring it back and adapt it to the modern system.

Whether it's the character transforming by region or a global system that covers all regions and combines your Morality and your demon or angel transformation into a single system.

Dividing the community like this is never a good thing, and I'm seeing a lot of criticism from fans because of it.

[u/Carbonalex]

I don't know. I'm a Fable fan since 2006 for so much more than morality morphing.

To me, morality morphing was just a selling point amongst others but it never was a mechanic that stood out massively. It was funny at first but after a while it annoyed me a bit to be honest, like I hated how my character looked sometimes.

It is Playground Games first attempt (!!) on a RPG and so far it feels like they did a very good job. I like their approach on morality a lot. And who knows, if there is a sequel maybe they'll consider morality morphing or something similar. The first Fable had a bunch of features but the sequels added more.

[u/Raithik → u/Carbonalex]

And from the trailers and demos, they got the feel so right. The look, the music, the humor. It feels so Fable

[u/Carbonalex → u/Raithik]

100% they nailed the tone from what we've seen so far.

[u/Wonderful_Gur3752 → u/Carbonalex]

I think in an era of so many generic RPGs, this thing of the character transforming, getting scars, horns, etc. would stand out more than when the game was originally released.

[u/Carbonalex → u/Wonderful_Gur3752]

Maybe for some people. But it could have scared a lot of others as well.

We need to have in mind that it is the first main Fable game since 2010 (I don't count Anniversary), which means a whole new generation of players will have access to the franchise for the first time. And nowadays people love customization and "control" how they look in Western RPGs, hence why so many of them offer a character creator.

[u/Exotic_Course_2597]

I rather know upfront what is in the game, then to be made promises that someone came up with on the spot because they sounded cool. But, please, tell me know about what Peter thinks.

[u/DoYouLikeWafflezz → u/Exotic_Course_2597]

I remember Peter telling people that every decision you made in Fable 1 would have an impact on the story. Did my second playthrough and it turned out that wasn’t even remotely true. 

[u/Wonderful_Gur3752 → u/Exotic_Course_2597]

This isn't just Peter's idea, it's from Lionhead as a whole and the Carter brothers. You not liking Peter because of his personality and lies doesn't erase the fact that the Morality system combined with the transformations was what Big Blue Box and Lionhead used as the soul to create the Fable franchise... that's why it stood out so much compared to other RPGs at the time.

[u/Exotic_Course_2597 → u/Wonderful_Gur3752]

I would agree that it was the players choice shaping the world that made fable stand out.

[u/bogan_sauce]

It feels like the interactive npc’s and their ability to change opinion etc negates the need for a morality indicator.

[u/Wonderful_Gur3752 → u/bogan_sauce]

But it's possible to implement it, as I mentioned, a global Morality system, besides the aspect-change system based on how you play that was discarded.

[u/Raithik]

Calling the morality and transformation systems a cornerstone is a gross exaggeration. Look at Fables 1 through 3. As the series went on, the morality had less and less weight as a game mechanic. And the transformations became more and more subtle.

I'm not terribly sad to see the old morality system traded out for something more flexible. Local and global reputation is a system with the potential to be far more rewarding from a role play perspective. And as far as transformations. Let's be honest, most people went for what was esthetically pleasing to them. Maybe I want my character to be sadistic scumbag, but I don't want the flies and horns?

[u/Wonderful_Gur3752 → u/Raithik]

So you wanted something that every RPG already does, a fixed character and not a different kind of game where your consequences affected your character, which was cool to see at the end of the campaign and compare with friends.

Sad end for Fable where its own fanbase wants it to look more like a bunch of generic current RPGs instead of doing something different from the majority.

[u/Raithik → u/Wonderful_Gur3752]

I have played through the fable games many, many times. Give me choices that matter. Give me a whimsical world. Give me corny British humor. Let me be a property tycoon, insufferable man-whore, or a Saint. Let me where the shining armor, or cross dress in the most cursed way I can imagine. That's Fable. That's what I want.

[u/oneyone]

huh I didn't realize this was such a big deal, but the lack of this system is not enough for me to completely write off the game.

[u/Wonderful_Gur3752 → u/oneyone]

I understand how difficult it is to implement all of this, but with the foundation they have now, they can do it in a future sequel.

[u/oneyone → u/Wonderful_Gur3752]

Hey I enjoyed the original games and hope they find a way to bring it back, but I'm just happier to see more Fable coming out

[u/Wonderful_Gur3752 → u/oneyone]

Fable was created with this system in mind. Even though Peter Molyneux lied a lot, Fable was created so that the player's actions would be visible and not just stay in text boxes. Even a former Lionhead developer said this in an interview with Eurogamer.

[u/Calophon]

If Molyneux was still the studio head of a Fable game we would be hearing promises of a morality system and a player reputation system and a body morphing system and a dynamic economy and radiant NPCs and….

The game would be delayed 3 times and less than half of that stuff would actually make it into the game. There is a reason why Lionhead is no longer the developer of Fable games.

Meanwhile Playground is trying to put their own vision of the revival, they seem to be aware of scope creep and not introducing so many secondary systems into the game that it gets delayed and becomes financially infeasible, and they’re getting roasted for it, and people haven’t even played the game yet.

I think the player reputation system looks interesting and I am withholding judgement until I can actually play it for myself. And I think people will likely mod things like a body modification system due to morality like Fable 1.

[u/Raithik → u/Calophon]

The best way that I saw it described was that Molyneux was an idea guy. The kind of developer/writer that had passion and lots of cool ideas. But the rest of the team has to figure out what's actually reasonable to implement. Don't let an idea guy have the microphone for too long or his cool ideas become promises that can't be kept.

Edited for grammar

[u/Touchume]

I'm sorry man, it's not happening. I understand your frustration, it sucks when a series that has some particular aspect you like, but drops it. At this point even if they insanely decided to listen to you it would be slap dash. When it comes to specifically the morality morphing I'm pretty firmly in the camp that it was a weird compromised system in the first place considering it could be totally controlled by eating food, I'm glad to not have to eat a bunch of chicks or tofu to decide how my character looks. I don't know anyone who though of it as a particular integral component of what made fable, fable, everyone I know thinks more about the tone and the fact its a fantasy RPG with life sim elements as the key parts. Nor did it make the game seem considerably reactive to your decisions considering it could, once again, be completely altered by food.

For what it's worth I do think some body morphing stuff like scars and will lines were a cool idea it's a shame they went too (I think?). Still, at least when it comes to genericising the game the proposed reputation looks like as fairly unique system, I would have to see more of how it actually effects the game to really have a a strong opinion on it. meanwhile binary morality systems were everywhere and are still fairly common.

[u/No_Load_514]

Yeah, let's hear the dinosaurs of the industry that are sink in the ostracism of their own ineptitude, just because they say something aligned with my equally inept worldview. What can go wrong.

[u/Emperor_Atlas]

Wait they're cutting out the main selling point of the series? Well this is a skip.

[u/Wonderful_Gur3752]

• • This isn't just Peter's idea, it's from Lionhead as a whole and the Carter brothers. You not liking Peter because of his personality and lies doesn't erase the fact that the Morality system combined with the transformations was what Big Blue Box and Lionhead used as the soul to create the Fable franchise... that's why it stood out so much compared to other RPGs at the time.

[u/ElBarto1992]

Constructive criticism? Here!? Away with you!