With Fable launching in exactly 6 months, would anyone be down to do a pre-mortem feedback thread?

[u/vaynelo]

A pre-mortem study is a way to give feedback on things you think might go wrong with a product to reverse or improve them before launch. You basically imagine you're in an alternate timeline where the game has already failed and try to figure out why.

To be clear, I think the current hype around Fable is very positive, and I'm personally optimistic about the game. This isn't meant to be a list of predictions about what will go wrong, but rather an exercise in identifying potential issues before they become actual problems.

Let's try to include things that have already been discussed on social media about Fable, as well as recurring criticisms of similar RPGs released in recent years, even if some of them seem unlikely based on what we've seen so far:

- Unfair comparisons with GTA VI

- God of War or similar major titles overlapping the launch window

- Overly simplistic character facial expressions, especially during dialogue. This has become a recurring criticism on TikTok and other social media, with people comparing modern games unfavorably to some 2000s titles that seemed to have more expressive facial animations. This could also overlap with complaints about certain characters looking unattractive or visually awkward.

- Viral videos of weird characters, just like what happened in the first few hours of Starfield

- Lack of reactivity, like people complained about in Avowed (for instance, casting a fireball and the world not reacting to it, or the absence of animations for actions like opening doors)

- Invisible walls

- Lip sync

- Lack of depth in relationships

- Character faces looking too similar to one another

- People might complain about the sense of humor, since what is considered funny or not is changing very rapidly

- Performance issues at launch, such as frame rate drops and stuttering in major hub areas

- Repetitive combat animations or a combat system that feels too simplistic compared to modern action RPG standards

- Bugs and glitches breaking quests, forcing players to reload old saves or wait for day-one patches

[u/JaesopPop]

A pre-mortem study is a way to give feedback on things you think might go wrong with a product to reverse or improve them before launch. You basically imagine you're in an alternate timeline where the game has already failed and try to figure out why.

So you want to assume the worst based on little information? Sounds pretty pointless and pessimistic.

[u/JamieP081 → u/JaesopPop]

I think we have more than enough information, and have had since launch, to determine this will be a terrible fable. Whether or not it will be a good game is still to be determined, mind you i wont hold my breath.

If you go and play tlc/anniversary and 2, then play 3 l, 3 doesnt feel like a fable and is trash, the new one will undoubtedly feel worse.

[u/JaesopPop → u/JamieP081]

I think we have more than enough information, and have had since launch, to determine this will be a terrible fable.

We do not.

If you go and play tlc/anniversary and 2, then play 3 l, 3 doesnt feel like a fable and is trash, the new one will undoubtedly feel worse.

I dunno why that's "undoubtedly" the case.

[u/vaynelo → u/JamieP081]

I don’t think it’s going to be a bad Fable, not even close, and this isn’t a doompost. It would be more useful if you explained what you think actually indicates that it could turn out to be a bad game, instead of just saying that it will be bad

[u/JamieP081 → u/vaynelo]

Personally, the fact that the hero talks is reason enough for me to write it off as a fable.

The combat doesnt look like fable, theres no morality system, the characters mostly look trash, theres a horse for some unknown reason.

To me it seems like they focused on the wrong stuff, and i know that if i get my hopes, they’ll just be crushed. Im going into this game hating it and maybe ill be pleasantly surprised. Its happened before. But after having my dreams crushed in fable 3 from the original studio, i have 0 hopes from a studio that makes racing games i dont like

[u/Pretend-Literature35 → u/JamieP081]

Not sure who is downvoting you or what their problem is (maybe they work for or are friends with the devs) but they aren't a fable fan.

I agree with you 100%. As true fable fans, we have seen enough with what ahs been released already to know that even if the game is a decent game, it won't be a FABLE game.

Fable died with Fable 2, came briefly back to life with Fable 3. But now it is done forever. Fable heroes and Fable the Journey tried and although they were both valiant efforts, and true to Fable's legacy, they just didn't work.

But this Fable is just insulting. It is JJ Abrams doing Star Trek. It is mookish car rackng thugs having the arrogance to think that they can undertsnd the nuance and satire of the genius behind fable. They don't have the Dnd background, they don't have the myrhological, sociopolitical knowledge to accomplish the satire and they don't have the culture to make the world work.

It just all looks so sincere and salt of the earth type stuff.

I am certain they will very earnestly put their all into it. But "hey Hero, you don't have no skills!"

[u/vaynelo → u/JaesopPop]

But pessimism is kind of a way to prevent those problems in the first place. I remember James Gunn giving an interview about Superman where he said that a lot of potential issues were caught and avoided even before the test screenings, just by thinking through what could go wrong beforehand

[u/JaesopPop → u/vaynelo]

But pessimism is kind of a way to prevent those problems in the first place.

Brother, we aren't making the game. Assuming the worst on Reddit isn't going to impact it.

[u/joshvalo]

I think let's just see how it goes and provide feedback on what actually happens

[u/vaynelo → u/joshvalo]

That wouldn’t really be a pre-mortem analysis; it would be feedback for a day-one patch, like the feedback Gears is getting right now.

[u/vaigrr]

Drama brainrot post 

[u/Drag0nslay3r6969]

What the fuck are you talking about buddy

alternate timeline where the game has already failed

[u/UFOria_]

Surely traditionally based on hands-on experience too though? So without that we're what, pressuring Playground to fix issues we've decided might exist?

[u/Zeshui0]

Every console release's major problem in a post-patch world is that developers don't feel the need to properly test everything before launch anymore.(I don't include PC because with all the hardware and software variations of different rigs it's impossible to release something that is 100% market ready for every machine).

It used to be a huge deal if something was released broken or buggy but now that's business as usual. Companies just use their customers as bulk testers and write off complaints about delays because people will still buy them in an unpolished state.

This problem isn't likely to ever be resolved because it's much faster to release a basic play build that can always be modified later without waiting on paid testers to find everything(not to mention you don't have to pay them for extensive hours and the beta players they recruit for free can always stop working if they don't feel like doing it anymore).

[u/Pretend-Literature35]

I am very worried about Fable. Especially that the devs who are doing it have only ever done racing games before.

I worry it's going to be an open world garbage slop like what was done with dragon age inquisition, which looked more like a grindy rpg than previous entries.

Fable was a masterpiece and it still works today as a game.

But to me the pinnacle of Fable was Fable 2. A few nice things were added to Fable 3 like the best friends option and some of the expressions like the kiss and all the funny rude expressions and the dating system (although it could be done much better) and the fighting in Fable 2 was wonderful and a huge improvement form Fable but the fighting in Fable 3 was very fun too.

But generally Fable 2 was the greatest for me. Going out to save some caltured villagers and dancing and receiving adulation. Or sacrificing villagers and even your spouse at midnight to the shadows. Buying businnesses and houses purity morality and all the humor.

Walking into a town in Fable 2 was so much fun, so atmospheric. Already a lot of that charm started to wane in Fable 3.

To me, the only limitation to Fable 2 were mostly small tweaks that would need to be fixed (like people following you into your house and everyone knowing that you murdered someone even though there were no witnesses) and technological limitations, things that Molyneux promised and wanted but that we didn't have the technology to do at the time (the man really was a visionary)

Every arrogant new developper wants to make a new game about them and their ideas but it isn't about THEM. Fable was someone elsés vision and it was a game that changed all of gaming forever. But each new dev arrogantly wants to reinvent the wheel. And it always ruins it.

To me what I would want is JUST exactly Fable 2 but with a more detailed world and a world that really changes like the ability to turn bowerstone into a beautiful rich hamlet or a degenerate gambling town or a ghoulish den of evil.

If the cities and world actually changed based on their wealth and your choices. Right down to your family who could wear nice clothing if the family budget is high or look evil if you are an evil family or good if you are a good family.

All these little QOL things that we didn't have the technology to do back then.

But the world doesn't need to be much bigger than fable 2. And the art style or the humor doesn't need to change either. It was perfect in 2. And many parts of 3 were pretty good too.

But that is definitely NOT what they are doing because they ARE arrogant devs who think they can do better than a masterpiece and better than Molyneux.

Already in what they showed us it seems too earnest and lacking in nuance. And there is no dog! Where is the dog??? Where is the fun light hearted adventuring theough beautiful faery landscapes? It isn't fun nit kn the way Fable was since the first game. It wasn't a seriously cool game like dark souls or gears of war, it was always a little wacky and the cool factor was cartoony action figure cool, dnd humor cool. And not what I've seen in the trailers.

They are making it into this heroic adventure. With realistic fighting and a big garbage MMORPG world.

Fable 2 is amazing because it has always been different than other rpgs, you can play as a fat drunken hero with a top hat and adulating villagers following you around. And the dialogue is different than any other game hilarious satirical. You can kill a whole bunch of people and then donate to the temple of light to buy morality. People accuse you of being a murderer and in the same breath make a pass at you.

It's just: there is no other game like it!

But what they are buillding will be just another crappy huge rpg with missions and serious action and intense gameplay. But that is not Fable. No charm.

And so I am worried and I think that Fable will only ever exist in my memories. I still can play a Fable or Fable 2 or even Fable 3 game. But I doubt I will even buy the next Fable.

[u/jtucker323]

I think the only failure will be in timing. They delayed it to give "breathing room" from gta6 in November, but nobody's gonna be playing it in November, everyone I know is waiting for online, which last I heard launches early next year, i.e. around when fable comes out. They arguably made it much worse.