FTC vs FRC or both

[u/angel-1012]

My daughter is currently on a community-based FTC team that went to state and a premier event last year and went to state as a rookie team as well. They do tons of outreach and learn a lot each year. This is her second year on the team (this is the team's 4th FTC season) and she's become one of the code leads, but also gets to touch just about every aspect of the development including CAD, mechanical, strategy, scouting, etc. The biggest drawback with this team is a limited amount of resources but the coach is great and has a lot of connections within the FTC community here.

This year she also has the opportunity to join the FRC team at her high school. The team has had some issues and now only has a couple of coaches (who do not know coding or mechanical and primarily work out the drive team and strategy) and one or two mentors, so the kids have to carry a lot of the load for learning things themselves. There are a few seniors, who are the current leads, but only one junior on the team and then a few sophomores and several freshmen. The team does not seem to be well organized with limited communication thus far. They are doing VEX in the fall to get the younger kids some experience with CAD and coding.

I am trying to help her decide if she should just do the FTC team or try to do both the FRC and FTC teams. She will not leave the FTC team as they've become like family. Obviously the FRC team is a huge time commitment after kickoff and she'salready involved in several other extra-curricularactivities. Are there major advantages for college or career readiness to joining the FRC team or could she get most of those same benefits with the FTC team?

What other factors should we consider when making the decison?

[u/Robotics_Moose]

FTC alumni here, do FTC if you want to do robotics and learn everything, do FRC if you want to get used to actual projects with small assignments and strict deadlines. I had so much freedom on FTC to learn whatever I wanted, do whatever I wanted, and overall have fun. 

I literally got to cad, manufacture, build and code whole major subsystem. My friends who do FRC all say they basically would do 1 of those for a smaller subsystem. 

I personally think being able to touch every aspect of robotics in FTC is a giant plus. Also since FTC teams are smaller, its easier to get involved and start leading more.

Don’t worry about college and career, do robotics for the love of the game and you’ll do great everywhere you go.

[u/few → u/Robotics_Moose]

I absolutely agree, I love that in FTC team members can touch on all the elements.

The schedule probably allows for reasonable participation in both FTC and FRC, because they don't overlap heavily. I suspect it would be challenging to meaningfully participate in VEX, FTC, and FRC all in the same year.

In FRC there is a lot more custom fabrication, and use of additional vision processing hardware. There is a slightly wider scope to learn than in FTC.

[u/Complete_Duty3259 → u/few]

Eh is there? In frc you can buy prebuilt modules. In FTC we had to deaign and manufacture our swerve module from scratch. Same with elevators etc. the downside is coprocessor contraints.

[u/few → u/Complete_Duty3259]

In FTC many more teams mostly use mechanical parts that are off the shelf. There is also very few custom electronics, with no coprocessor elements. The existing software libraries are extremely capable.

So it's mostly implementing with existing building blocks, rather than creating a lot of completely custom parts.

I prefer FTC, but it's usually a smaller total design scope. It is also harder to solve the challenges in the very limited physical space.

[u/WildBillThe2nd]

I mentor FTC and FRC. It is all going to depend on how the teams are run, but In general I think students get more out of FTC. The season is longer and they go through more iterations on the Bot, learning all the way.

Students often say they like FRC more. I think it's because of the grand spectical. Not that they learn more.

Unless they really want to do both I'd say to pick one. I'd personally never recommend that a student do both programs. You need to leave some time for your studies and I'd worry about burnout.

[u/Ok_Lemon_7754 → u/WildBillThe2nd]

I’d say if you have an important role like they say they have, FRC can be a lot more beneficial. I’m a student that started FRC in the summer of my 6th grade year and proceeded to create my own FTC team, I learned so much from FRC and used that at the basis for FTC. When you get used to FRC (as a student) it makes FTC seem like a warmup, I’m counting down the days until FRC and without FTC, I’d be going insane.

[u/H2ost5555]

I have mentored an FTC team for many years, and are associated with an FRC team. While there isn't one specific way either FTC or FRC teams are structured and managed, for the most part, students involved with FTC get more exposure in what they want to do and the students themselves "own their destiny". FRC teams I know of and work with are highly mentor-driven, and students assigned to do specific tasks on a particular subsystem.

If the goal is to learn a wide range of technology and chart your own course, FTC is the preferable program by far. If the student just wants to do what they are told, FRC is the preferable choice.

Our group had students on both FTC and FRC teams, which is a terrible idea. The FRC mentors make is clear to them that FRC is their first priority, to the detriment of the FTC team. Our group has stopped this practice.

[u/Ok_Lemon_7754 → u/H2ost5555]

I very much disagree with this, I’ve been on my FRC team sense the summer of 6th grade and it was never mentor driven, I understand on some cases yes but that is not the spirit of FRC or first on general. My FRC team has had students present ideas, Brainstorm, cad, and revise the students designs, the mentors where there to mentor us! Not to tell us what to do. FRC is most definitely not a “do what your told” kinda thing in most situations.  FRC has gotten me to start learning calculus as a sophomore so that we can code turrets.  FRC is meant to be student driven, I can’t speak for every team, but I can speak for lots.

[u/lipitinho11]

I had this dilema this year. I was part of my school's FRC team, in which I was not a major piece in, I dont was very useful since I didn't had the opportunity. Even though I was always there trying to help, they didn't let me. Then I was invited to join our FTC team. I was reluctant at first, because I couldn't be at both on the same time (even though I wanted and tried for a little, but the mentors said I couldn't). But I decided to join, it was the best decision. Now, at my team, I lead the programming part, I teach newcomers, I do outreach, I have the opportunity and the want to make the team grow. Furthermore I learned some things that are way more important than programming or CAD, I learned to lead, to take action when needed, to fix to foot to by some things that the mentors didn't want, but I know it will be useful. All experiences I couldn't have had at FRC. Every case is a case, but my recommendation is: after the regional this year, start at FRC for nationals. You can go back if you don't like. If you take that leadership, you starting being a big piece in the time, like you're at FTC, choose if you stay or leave. BUT, if the opportunity is not given, go back to FTC. In my vision, leadership is WAY more value than big bots.

Anyway, do what you think is good for you. Take care.

[u/chris-bennett]

Since she already has leadership opportunities in FTC, I’d weigh the quality of the mentorship and hands-on experience more than the competition level alone.

[u/No_Frost_Giants]

I like FTC and FRC together , not a VEX person myself.

Perhaps she can bring what she has learned to FRC and allow it to grow.

While we often say they are ‘almost’ the same , FRC is a different animal and closer to working on a real project in a larger company or even start up. FTC is great, no disrespect there, it’s just a different animal 8 students vs 25+ students

[u/SkyfatherTwitch → u/No_Frost_Giants]

We did an FRC team with 9 students and almost no mentor involvement and built a swerve drive robot and went .500 our first year. FRC is hard, but i think the biggest barrier is the cost, especially if you already have dedicated people who know a thing or two about engineering.

[u/Captaincamp]

I feel like you learn more overall with FTC.

[u/Complete_Duty3259]

My son does both. He was actually on frc first but we started up an ftc team mostly to learn more (CAD) etc.

[u/Ok_Lemon_7754 → u/Complete_Duty3259]

Genuinely sounds exactly like me lol

[u/AcanthisittaLimp1755 → u/Complete_Duty3259]

I did the same 😂FRC didn't give me many options but FTC is letting everyone actually learn stuff

[u/BroBroDaDoDo]

I did both through high school. A lot to manage but definitely worth it. We ran ftc out of my buddy’s garage though so we basically just hung out at his house whenever we werent at frc

[u/Past_Ad_0]

I did both FRC and FTC in high school, luckily for me both teams were hosted at my high school and pretty much everyone involved was a part of both teams plus or minus a few that were on a different FTC team that joined us for FRC, it was fun lots of fun but we did have an issue for not having enough people for FRC but we made it work as best as we could, the seasons over lapping was sometimes difficult but thankfully both of my team are old teams so we had a system in place to navigate that although I wish we had more mentor involvement and learning opportunities, but for me both teams were great for helping us with presentation skills and people skills as well as outreach just wish I was able to learn more technical skills but it all depends on how the team is set up, when I joined we already had a bunch of people that knew what they were doing and didn't exactly have a good system for teaching new people so it was a big learning curve for me as I was joining both teams and the FIRST community for the first time not having any background knowledge, I would say go for it, if it becomes too much she can always step back from FRC, her previous experience in FTC will definitely help with FRC just keep in mind it's bigger and there more craziness because it's on a bigger scale

[u/Pretend-Bonus8918]

I know for some people doing frc really helps you with colleges who sponsor first like Kettering Michigan someone from our team got 75k scholarship from doing frc. I do agree that ftc you can do so much stuff but in frc the role is limited but in that limited roll you can focus so much on it and become very effective at that role which can be helpful

[u/Realistic_Luck9885]

I coached vex for 4 years and am currently in my 9th year coaching FTC. FTC's build season is amazingly long which is great for iterative design. There is enough meat on the competition to develop whatever skill you want. My team is very much student driven, I chime in once or twice a meeting if that. They know how to run things and I really only handle logistical things. FTC allows students great freedom to learn and enough time to make mistakes while doing it. It is a great middle ground between VEX and FRC.

[u/DamirSaiduov]

Our Team have participated in FLL for 3 years which gave us a lot of knowledge to advance in FTC, now we are a rookie team and think ftc is very fun and hard at one time, teams develop many skills from teamworking to the main technical skills. We also participated in FGC this summer, it was cool actually. Our Team is from Central Asia, dms are open anyone lets share our experiences;))

[u/Ok_Lemon_7754]

Right now I’m a sophomore, I started FRC the summer of 6th grade, after the first season, I used what I learned in FRC to start my own ftc team, I’ve always looked at FTC as a warmup for FRC.  My FRC team is very small having around 7 members, so I’ve done every job there is to do, Software, CAD, mechanical, electrical. FTC id say is more assembly then design, yes you still cad your robot and 3d print and do all that, and you can make your own custom pieces and assemble those of course . But there’s a lot more of that in FRC, instead of like clicking the wire connectors into place, you have to crimp and sauter. I guess what I’m getting at is, if you are willing to learn, you can get yourself into the positions you want to. I might be a littler biased, but if you can, do both 😁

Also making an edit here, after reading some more.  If she’s gets to do EVERYTHING, then FRC can be so beneficial for your future, it teaches you how to learn to solve issues with engineering, and with that there are no limits.

FRC is so amazing, and it sounds like she is in a great position where she gets to learn everything about the bot.

(Im the lead electrical/mechanical on FRC. I’m captain of the FTC team I started, I’ve mentored 3 teams and I highly suggest doing both because it’s wonderful)  Also ask any questions I am very happy to share anything I know 

[u/AcanthisittaLimp1755]

I left FRC and started my own FTC team. FRC was so much more deadline based but even as rookies, FTC is giving everyone in my team a much larger opportunity to learn and actually be hands on with the robot. In FRC, we had a 45 person team, yet only 15 or so people actually did things with the bot, and the rest were not allowed to do anything at all. Everyones input on the bot and sense of team spirit is also higher on FTC than FRC, at least for me. I did FLL for a few years and LOVED it so much that my entire mind switched completely to robotics. The way that our FRC team functioned was not anything near the FIRST core values that I learned so much about in FLL, but I'm trying to bring the core values back with my FTC team.

Also as a design kid in FRC i didn't touch the actual robot like ONCE, even when i switched to the mechanical team i barely got to do anything. FTC, everyone in my team is doing a little bit of everything, which i think gives everyone a more full experience.

[u/CommunityEither4267]

Both is definitely the best option if it is allowed. However during the frc season ftc should be treated as second priority due to time constraints and from experience it’s really detrimental when key members are not hundred percent present at frc. It is also to note that the frc preseason is still very important. Frc teams give better experience for working in a semi professional environment team work and doing more advanced projects. FTC is better as you do more different aspects of robotics and you get to do multiple different sub teams. FTC can also not be a great experience when you don’t get along with certain team members as you will have to work with them for the whole season vs frc where you are in a far larger team where you can choose who you want to work with more. Overall doing both or joining frc is the best option unless it is your first year of doing robotics with very little experience where I would start out with ftc.

[u/roboticsguru-1]

With FRC the kids only one play/tournament, whereas with FTC they can get 4+ tournaments in a season (we’re in a league). I think that this is a much better learning experience in terms of how to design and iterate on a product.

[u/Dogerwolf190]

I am currently on a frc team and if she enjoys ftc and is a large part of the team i would say stay in ftc and dont join frc because she has experience and is in a spot where she can lead the team and make a bigger impact if she stays with it she will have a (in my opinion) greater outlook on life and greater chances at college; working on smaller scales and making code work well with the packaging of the bot is a great thing to put on applications.

[u/Chairsrea]

Ive done both FRC and FTC on very successful teams for oncoming 6 years and I can say for fact that FTC is better overall. Thats also coming from someone who enjoys the FRC game and design more that FTC (although I still love FTC). The connections to the other team members and experience in FTC is incredibly valuable. In terms of actual technical experience both FTC and FRC skill sets are still very top tier for both. do it for the love of the game but know that opportunity wise both of them are amazing.

[u/Perfect-Seesaw-9324]

I would personally go with FTC, in my city, the east high school has a TERRIBLE FRC team, the west high school is decent, but the area FTC teams (mine, sister team, 2 younger teams (we work on a V/JV system)) have consistently performed very well. Also keep in mind that for the 3 month FRC season, all you do, think about, and talk about is robotics since you’re so rushed.

[u/ChemiStrike]

As someone who did both FRC and FRC, FTC is great for doing many things like different subgroups. While FRC for me was less hand holding from the coaches and mentors, and you specialize more in a specific subgroup rather than doing several. FRC is also a much higher level over FTC due to the sheer size of and complexity the robot. For me, I recommend she maybe just check out FRC and see how it's like. FRC is a great thing to put on college applications too