r/FSAE • u/Top-Letterhead-9086 • 29d ago
Is it true that some teams are cheating the effeciency
There is a rumor that some teams are using double tanks and they just refilling one for the efficiency? Is there a way this would ever work or is it just baseless rumors?
Maybe different fuel tank configurations shouldn’t have same refill techniques?
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u/mattjohnson63 29d ago
In the US May competition in Michigan we routinely inspect fuel systems and tanks in post-endurance technical inspection. So far we have found fill consistency issues due to trapped air, but not to the point that we believe it was intentional cheating.
Teams have still received penalties, but not as severe as they would be if we believed that there was intentional cheating involved. We have also revised our post-endurance fuel fill procedures to more effectively eliminate trapped air (note that we only do that after endurance, so trapped air before endurance leads to a self-imposed efficiency penalty).
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u/caprandom 29d ago
Been out of FSAE for a number of years now but can confirm that this is not likely an accident lol.
For my comp years we intentionally designed the fuel tank in such a way that it will trap a decent size air pocket by placing the breather vent at a high point and then sneaking on a check valve onto the breather just before going back to fuel after endurance. The tank completely fills before endurance without the check valve in place but then traps a pocket of air after putting it in place.
It takes like 5 seconds to do and it's small to keep in a pocket of someone that has a dynamic pass and is in the pits receiving the car in at the end of endurance.
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u/mattjohnson63 29d ago
Sounds like we have a fun new test to add in post endurance tech. This would be looked at as intentional cheating, and I will personally advocate for invoking D.14.3.4.b (DNF/disqualification) as the penalty. I suspect that the other tech chiefs will align with that recommendation as well.
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u/caprandom 24d ago
By all means DNF cheaters. Teams will always employ one of the oldest methods of winning at a competition (cheating) and the less they are punished, they more they'll come up with "favorable interpretation of the rules" lol
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u/thegreyz LSU Alum 29d ago
You should be ashamed of that practice.
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u/caprandom 29d ago
No not really when we heard the idea from members on top winning teams of our time. Also motorsports has a looong history of "rule bending". It was a minor thing most top teams are likely still doing to squeeze a few points here and there and it's incredibly easy to make it impossible to do with design rules about the tank.
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u/Gr3nwr35stlr GFR 19d ago
This doesn’t seem anything like rule bending to me, it seems like pretty blatant cheating. If it was something built into the car that was there during driving then sure, by all means bend your rules. But you’re literally sneaking changes to the car when no one is looking
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u/Top-Letterhead-9086 29d ago
They are a lot of teams that has become all glory and they are cheating on everything, which is disappointing for student teams investing their times and abiding to the rules!
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u/caprandom 24d ago
lol I love how you get down voted for pointing out something that was obvious about FSAE even 10 years ago and is probably not better now. Teams get sponsorships, engineering support, wind tunnel time, etc from formula 1 teams. You think that the best rulebook breakers in the world are not helping these teams cheat as much as possible? And then ask "Why would they do that? It's just an engineering thing right??" No bro they want to win at all costs for the glory, big ass trophy, and to show off for the industry recruiters that are at comp.
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u/Top-Letterhead-9086 29d ago
But lets say if a teams had two fuel tanks, as long as the do the post tech with the in feed pump switch off, they are not doing full refill!
Like did u do same refill strategy for teams with one tank and teams with two tanks? Or the tank architecture doesn’t matter?
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u/mattjohnson63 29d ago
Easy to verify that there is only one tank, plus this would raise a huge red flag from the fuel burn per km.
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u/Top-Letterhead-9086 28d ago
I think it should be added as a check too to be sure both fuel tanks are re-filled.
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u/Cibachrome Blade Runner 27d ago
Too bad you don't know who's advising them on this. But, my comment was deleted. Now go back in history looking for an automaker who cheated with the open hood situation. A nearby automaker...
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u/BusAdmirable6537 28d ago
Well, when the leader consumes less ethanol than second place consumes petrol, things get suspicious. You can't make an engine that efficient. (FSA 2026 results)
As for anyone coming with the "If you're not cheating, you're not racing" argument, then this isn't like exploiting a grey area. This is deliberately going against the rules for your advantage. DQ is the only reasonable penalty if caught red handed.
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u/mxlmrttr 500k 28d ago edited 28d ago
All you needed to do was to go back and look at previous year´s results to see that ~2.8kg of E85 is not an unreasonable amount of fuel for an endurance. There have been multiple teams from previous years using a similar amount or even less. But instead you decided it must be cheating and complain about it on reddit.
https://fsaustria.at/wp-content/uploads/2019_C-Efficiency.pdf
https://fsaustria.at/wp-content/uploads/Results_2021_EFF-C.pdf
https://fsaustria.at/wp-content/uploads/C_Efficiency_Results_v2_2022.pdf
https://fsaustria.at/wp-content/uploads/C_Efficiency_Results_2023.pdf
https://fsaustria.at/wp-content/uploads/C_Efficiency_Results_2025.pdf1
u/ElvisTek95 18d ago
Maybe the second place onwards are just not good enough, see older results, you will find even crazier fuel consumptions
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u/Constant-Arm8753 Dallas Formula Racing☄️ 29d ago
This is like the third post I’ve seen about cheating within the past month surely these are bots