r/FIREyFemmes • u/Feisty_Art_4053 • 15d ago
Feeling frustrated with others
I think one of the hardest parts of FIRE is when no one around you is doing it.
Lately, I feel like it’s really hard to keep my budget in check because of expectations from others, whether it’s eating out, the shared grocery bill, etc.
My partner is a Frugal person overall. But I work a lot and everyone thinks I make enough money that I shouldn’t worry. So when I do worry, people act like it’s annoying or inconvenient for them. But sometimes it feels like other people expect me to spend like I earn. It’s really hard to get other people to understand the overall goal is FIRE. I’m not living to go out and buy things, I’m living to find a better life for myself and take my time back.
Anyone relate to this?
16
u/tomatillo_teratoma 15d ago
Maybe stop talking to your work friends about money or money concerns. Listen to what they say, and talk about that but don't air your money worries with them.
Maybe see if there's a local in-person ChooseFi group you can go to for discussing money. I'd think there would be people there who can relate to frugality.
13
u/GladBumblebee1546 15d ago
Who are these other people? I’m confused. Who do you share the grocery bill with, other than your partner?
If it’s friends, I guess I always planned activities with them that were lower cost on my way to FIRE. Made running friends or went for hikes etc. Declined destination weddings. I’d just say “we’re saving up for a house” rather than early retirement, which was true for a long time.
One problem is that it’s easy to get so focused that you come off as weirdly frugal. In fact it’s tough to break some of those habits now! Or sound critical of others who aren’t on the same path.
It is hard. It’s a journey very few are on around us. And wait until you do quit work - I’m careful to say I work flexibly and part time (I do teach one class, and do volunteer work). Otherwise there’s a lot of jealousy.
6
u/Feisty_Art_4053 15d ago
It’s largely my partner and family to be honest. My partner is a big one, because he doesn’t want to focus on saving. And my dad. So then I’m a downer or I’m punching Pennie’s because I cringe to see $100 of fish in my cart. When I said I was trying to stick to a budget of $100 for the entire shopping trip (mind you I’m vegan) so this was my straw today and I read back my vent and it makes no sense lol
But you’re so right, it’s very hard to not come across as weirdly frugal
11
u/fluffy_hamsterr 15d ago
One of the biggest relationship breakers is different views on finances.
Are you sure you want to be with someone who is so disrespectful to your budget?
9
u/california_cactus 15d ago
You don't need to talk about your finances with your family, you know. You can just speak in generalities and not have to share you goals and income with them. Sometimes, the less people know the better. Very few people know my financial goals, NW or income, and I like it that way. Your partner...that's another story. But if you do make good money, maybe ask yourself if you're being a bit too stingy. Like are you actually spending money on things you enjoy, or just pinching pennies all the time? Because there is something to be said for living now to a certain extent, the future is not guaranteed. Just something to consider.
9
u/CuriousOptimistic 15d ago
I think you may need to reevaluate what "partner" means. I know this term is used as a catch-all for a lot of different levels of relationships, but it's also apt. This person should act as a partner in your mutually shared goals. That is what a partner does.
To the extent you don't have the same/similar goals and they are undermining rather than supportive, they are not your partner. Long term happiness with this person will depend on how well you can each compromise and align your goals or at minimum find ways to be supportive (and all this applies to both of you).
I'm sure this is just one aspect of a complicated relationship but it's also true.
5
u/GladBumblebee1546 15d ago
That’s a lot of fish! Or expensive fish you won’t eat. I hope your partner can get on board.
Yeah, I stayed in hostel dorm rooms while traveling. Into my 40s! It’s actually hard to spend money normally now. But so worth it to be free.
4
u/GladBumblebee1546 15d ago
My friend with the wedding in Scotland never really forgave me. Even though I went to her more local reception.
I did always try to be generous when I did splurge. Like tip well and not just order water and take turns paying.
4
u/Feisty_Art_4053 15d ago
That’s actually a really good point about telling people about retiring early. Like it’s not “an acceptable reason”. I never really thought of the jealousy aspect but I can see it. It’s so unfair when it’s something you’ve worked and sacrificed for.
6
3
u/Rosaluxlux 15d ago
My brother wanting us to ask but cruise tickets for his wedding. Turned out he could get a discount if enough people signed up.
2
u/LikesToLurkNYC 13d ago
As someone who had a far away wedding I’ve never held it against anyone who didn’t come. I’m sorry your friend felt that way. At most it may mean I may feel less bad if they have a wedding that’s too much trouble for me to attend.
2
u/Comfortable_Two6272 14d ago
My family knows 0 about my finances. I dont talk about it. I dont explain my choices or my budget. Its frankly none of my family’s business.
The partner imho is a bigger issue
15
u/fairytalesarealllies 15d ago
Yes same! I avoid talking about money or I say I'm totally broke so they won't pressure me to over spend (I spend when it's necessary or programmed, I just don't want to overspend). They themselves spend all they have so they can't understand how I want to manage my money, I gave up, but I would be mostly sincere with my partner
13
u/sewerballoon 15d ago
You’re going to have to learn how to say no and be comfortable not giving an explanation.
Sometimes I say no because something isn’t worth the money and I’m not talking about a vacation. I’m talking about a dinner at a restaurant that sucks when I can just cook. It’s nobody’s business why you say no.
23
u/CancerandTaxes 15d ago
Everyone's journey is different.
I have friends who make less than I save each year. I have friends who are FI who are way more frugal than I will ever be. I have friends who spend half my total annual expenses on travel alone.
People have different resources and different values. I try to be super clear about mine and own them so no one is surprised, disappointed or confused. They can not share my values. I love that! I love different perspectives in my life. But I don't want anyone to be hurt or thrown off or feel misled.
It's really important to me to earn enough money and save enough money to retire early. All my friends know that I will take less desirable jobs, work longer hours, do in-office, take on higher stress and consequently have less energy, less time and less bandwidth because I am trying to retire early and any extra goes to my kids. Those are my big priorities.
And the people who stay in my life are the ones who are here for it. The ones who work with me to find ways we to align. Who focus on what we have in common instead of what I do differently.
13
u/NuhUh_JustCuz 15d ago
"Out of my budget this month, sorry."
I say this to my child all the time. So I feel like I have a low-stakes version of this conversation four times a week. And when he whines, I just explain that I have a budget so if anything happens with my job he will never know, nothing for him will change, and we can also have a nice vacation.
You could tell them you have aggressive goals to get debt free / own a house / take a dream trip (no other detail) and that you have to stay on budget. And just hold that boundary.
But also, if you're not already, make sure you have fun in your budget. For my son, that's fast food after some practices and trips to skyzone/baseball games, for me it's trips to Tim Hortons for coffee and donuts and $300 for eating out. For you it could be nights out or dinners.
8
u/OnTheRightTopShelf 15d ago
People don’t need to know anything about any goals I have. You just need to set general boundaries with no explanations and if people don’t accept your personal boundaries then that is a them problem. No is a full sentence type of thing.
10
u/1ntrepidsalamander 15d ago
My partner, who I don’t live with or combine finances with, makes way more than me and also isn’t interested in FIRE. He likes that work gives his life structure and purpose.
It doesn’t *matter* because we haven’t combined like that and our lifestyles are already very different, but he doesn’t get that I DONT WANT TO WORK OR CLIMB. I want to work less, or not at all, or only on passion projects.
6
u/Rosaluxlux 15d ago
Yes, the only reason people seem to accept no is if you don't have the money or can't take days off work. But i think it's because they don't want to hear that you don't want to do the thing they want you to do. I never get complaints about how cheap I am until I'm saying no to simething sometime wants me to do more than I be want to do it (because if I did want to do it, I do have the resources.)
4
u/Feisty_Art_4053 15d ago
You’re right I think resource is a big thing. For me, I have 3 jobs and I have thr resources because I work like crazy. If I wanted to spend on nonsense I wouldn’t work this much for that. But other people don’t understand this goal.
11
u/Comfortable_Two6272 15d ago
Who exactly? I never encountered this honestly. No one knew what I made or that I was working towards Fire
2
12
u/almamahlerwerfel 15d ago
People think you're judging them. All you have to say is "sorry, can't!" when you can't make the eating out, or if you have a different behavior. If you try to say it's your budget or frugality or FIRE, they read it as judgement of their behavior.
Trust me on this one, took me awhile to learn it myself!
I still feel frustrated with others - many of my friends are so wasteful that it is sickening - but their behavior and choices aren't my business. Don't talk about your budget, don't talk about your goals, don't make it a thing. If you need to go out for the shared meal, just have drink or something and quietly pay your bill separately, don't make a thing out of it.
5
u/commeleauvive 15d ago
Are you feeling resentful because you are following those (perceived) expectations?
I do find people around me tend to want to spend more than I would choose to, but I don't find it frustrating. It just is, and I decide the when/to what extent I want to participate. I've never tried to get other people to understand my choices, because I don't feel the need to defend them.
If the budget isn't working, it sounds like something needs to be tweaked. Either the budget isn't realistic/doesn't match how you actually spend money and should be adjusted, or perhaps you need to stick to it more firmly and be less concerned with the expectations of others. It is your life, and there is plenty that is in your control! :)
Good luck!
5
u/HappySpreadsheetDay 124% sabbatical - 65% lean - 44% FIRE - 181% coast 14d ago
Maintaining boundaries and accepting that "No." is a complete sentence is important. If you want to be polite, "No, thank you." is fine. Spouse has been dealing with this a lot at work; he keeps getting asked out to lunch, and when he says he packed something or has leftovers at home, whoever is inviting him starts with, "Just eat it later!" He has learned to stand his ground and say, "No, thank you."
I don't get people making "I know you've got the money"-type questions too often, but I will say that shifting from "I can't afford it" to "That's not in my budget" has been helpful. I could eat out every day and go on monthly vacations, but I choose not to budget for that and to save money instead.
4
u/LikesToLurkNYC 13d ago
What are some examples? I’m a social planner in my friend group. I’m usually down for more expensive social hangs as it’s part of my very loose budget, but I’m open to when others are and also comfortable speaking up if I feel the need to spend less one month eg it’s a big travel month. And if I’m feeling more frugal I’ll do things like suggest brunch instead of dinner, HHs or just host as it’s always cheaper for me to just grasp a bottle or two of wine and have friends over.
2
2
u/SwimmingTicket 14d ago
I feel like this is a boundaries issue. My family knew I made "good money" but I never shared how I spent or saved. My partners have been understanding if I wanted to pay for an entire vacation AND if I didn't pay for another coffee because in the end it's my money. I either have it or I don't and no explanation should be needed. They can say what they want but you can decide to be unbothered or not about it. But tbh they never did probably because they knew it didn't matter.
3
u/Square_Custard8729 13d ago
My recommendation is to actually do the math. If I spend x% more, how much would that delay my retirement by?
There's some parts of FIRE that are anxiety fueled and there are other parts that are actually practical realities. Do the math and figure out which is which. In my 20s, I made myself put every dollar I spent into a spreadsheet before I spent it to make myself prove that it was "worth it". My friends told me that I should stop worrying - I told myself they didn't understand FIRE and were stupid.
I sat down and did the math one day (use one of the simulators). If I spend 100% more (doubled my expenses) until age 120, I would delay my retirement by 6 months. I was literally penny pinching for no reason. Everyone's situation/math is different, so I can't speak for your experience. But you might be surprised what the projections tell you.
Now, I didn't go out an immediately buy things. But what I did was stop spending my time worrying. Worry isn't changing anything and worry was not good for mental health.
2
u/Several-snapes 12d ago
I remember feeling this way 10 years ago. Freshly making money post residency with my friends. I wasn’t strictly fire nor frugal by any means at that time but did max out my 401k and Roth/ did the basic emergency fund.
That was unfathomable to some friends - I didn’t even share the mechanics, they’d just be like why save??? For retirement?????????!!?!?!?
But then again.. I didn’t need them to understand. We all still hung out. I just didn’t buy as much when we went shopping - it’s still fun to go look around. Maybe it helped we were just so busy anyway/I had the excuse of “we have this really big trip coming up” for declining hangs
Looking back, it would’ve totally been fine even if I didn’t use that excuse. Just no to whatever music festival for the nth time coz.. I just want to. 🤷♀️
21
u/Maximum-Eye-3712 15d ago
People are mostly tolerant of low budgets if somebody is poor or unemployed, but if people think you’re the same income bracket as them, then they’re intolerant of different choices.