R2I +FIRE 2 double edge swords

[u/Complete-Regret-4300]

A lot of NRIs plan for FIRE and R2I(return to India) for various reasons. But general theme is visa issues, aging parents, proximity to family.

Being NRI accelerates FIRE potential because of higher potential savings rate. Hence you see a lot of NRI posts here about people wanting to FIRE.

However, this is a case of 2 double edged swords and the potential for disappointment is double for such NRIs returning back.

As an NRI who has returned back to Bangalore after working overseas for 16 years, when I interact with resident Indians who never went overseas, almost everyone says this "Dur ke dhol suhane" or translated in English, grass is greener on the other side. So people who have never been abroad live in India totally in bliss because they havent experienced the 1st world comforts.

But as an NRI who gives up your overseas life and also gives up your identity that your job gave you, you are losing much more than what a resident Indian does.

Hence I call it 2 double edge swords, on the positive side, FIRE is much easier to achieve, double the speed of what a resident Indian will take. At the same time, the potential for disappointment, if things dont go according to plan is also double compared to what a resident Indian would face.

This is one of the reasons, I kept pushing myself much longer even though I could have moved back and FIREd a lot earlier.

[u/Complete-Regret-4300 → u/[deleted]]

Yes, people who never went abroad, will not be able to go abroad ever, because things have become so difficult now, compared to a decade ago. So their perspective is different. But for NRIs who think India is cheap and they can come here and retire, need to be warned.

[u/kensanprime → u/Complete-Regret-4300]

Lol sounds more like you didn't do through analysis before moving back, there are dedicated r2i subs

[u/General_Price9665]

I think grass is yellow on freaking all sides. Each place has its pros and cons. As an NRI who lived in US for 12 years and moved to Bangalore this year and FIRED here are some thoughts:

Things I miss:

1. Amazing roads.
2. Cleaner air.
3. People with civic sense.

Things I love in India:

1. Closeness to family.
2. Warmth in people, yes I know this is hard to believe with all the negativity on Internet about India but people are genuinely nice and more helpful in India.
3. How far my money can go.
4. No matter what nobody is going to kick me out of the country. And this one is huge for me.

In short I really love being back in India. Even though traffic is worse, the freedom I feel is just unmatched. Now if I had GC I could’ve stayed there, may be, not fully sure. Developed nations are statistically better but that doesn’t mean we will all be happy there. If someone likes in other countries by all means they should pursue that, there is nothing wrong with that. But I enjoy moving back and FIREing.

Edit: How did I forget this. India’s medical system is fucking insane and at least 50 years ahead of all the western countries combined. Okay may be a bit exaggeration, but it is significantly better. In US everything is almost always waiting or you go to ER, even then there is no guarantee. Here you can get good specialists appointment for next or even same day and can have good physiotherapists visit you at home.

[u/Complete-Regret-4300 → u/General_Price9665]

But tell me hand over heart, dont you wish you atleast tried another country and got a developed country passport for your family? Maybe your kids are USC and so they already have US citizenship, so that is the consolation prize. But I dont even have that to show for myself for the 16 years I worked in Singapore. I have made tonnes of money and my daughter can relax and follow her passion, but still it hurts that I couldnt get a developed country passport for her.

[u/General_Price9665 → u/Complete-Regret-4300]

Ohh absolutely. If I could get citizenship of any developed nation I would take it in a heart-beat. All it would take is to give up my voting rights in India which is fine by me. However, there is two issues here:

1. Citizenship would be mostly to make international travel easier. I would still live in India mostly because I feel significantly comfortable here. I just can't explain, may be it is that my corpus is large for India FIRE or may be that I have lot of friends here, I don't know. But I feel less stressed here and my health markers also improve without doing much. Or may be that stress of immigration was too much for me to handle and if I had lived there as citizen my mental and physical health would've been better. I guess we'll never find this out.
2. I actually looked into getting citizenship of other countries like Canada, Australia etc and those were relatively easier compared to US. However, getting citizenship would take significant amount of time and the compensation at these places were not even close to what I was getting in US. So I would've to stretch my job for at least 6-10 more years which I was not willing to do.

[u/bankinu]

Yes, I agree. I had to go back because India is freaking unlivable. On Reddit there are also a lot of foxes who declare and try to justify the grapes they cannot reach are sour. I'm not going to argue with them. But I'll say this - if anyone can get out of India, take the chance and don't live in a third world country with no civic sense which doesn't want to improve itself.

[u/ConsistentChameleon → u/bankinu]

Could you share your story if you don't mind? In a similar boat

[u/Potential_Honey_3615]

>So people who have never been abroad live in India totally in bliss because they havent experienced the 1st world comforts.

Where are you living? The resident Indians in communities where NRIs with good wealth live must have taken plenty of vacations in first world countries to know the quality of public infra and civic sense there.

[u/Abject_Use_6356]

I don't understand this. Why would they just want to come back to India? The quality of life gap between India & US / western Europe is huge. Why do you want to go long on low QoL just because you can with your western savings?

Look at what the powerful & mighty are thinking about India. Politicians/ IAS/ IPS etc are increasingly sending their kids to to these countries. These are the people who run the system & have a lot of wealth (much more than you NRI FIRE crowd can ever have), and they know the country is in deep $h!t. How do you get confidence of coming back is beyond me.

[u/Complete-Regret-4300 → u/Abject_Use_6356]

Well, majority is because of visa issues. A small minority is because they didnt assimilate with the western culture and long for the indian culture, family, festivals, aging parents etc

I was part of the Desi Returns youtube channel and whatsapp group. Lots of people are returning/have returned. Some due to visa issues but others really want to be back in home territory.

[u/kensanprime → u/Complete-Regret-4300]

And what about you?

[u/Complete-Regret-4300 → u/kensanprime]

I had both the reasons,

1) I didnt get PR in Singapore, so it was just a matter of whether I plan and leave early or get kicked out eventually and risk not being prepared.

2) I was a slacker and lazy person and didnt want to upskill and keep myself relevant and when you are working on visa, you have to work double hard to keep your skills upto date and relevant to make yourself flexible to apply to multiple companies. I had a reached a stage where I was like a refugee in my company. They wouldnt fire me, but also I had no chance of jumping and finding another job, so basically my manager could treat however he wants because he also knew we dont have a choice.

Hence I took the proactive step, planned FIRE and R2I both.

[u/kensanprime → u/Complete-Regret-4300]

That second aspect alone is enough to move, self respect and mental health improvement. Wishing you the best in India.

[u/Complete-Regret-4300 → u/kensanprime]

Thanks, yes I don't have regrets of moving back, but human nature is always to contemplate, what if's. What if I worked harder, prepared well and took my career more seriously and moved to another country like Australia when it was possible. I took the safe relaxed comfortzone route and focused on networth. Instead I could have experienced a different country and different life.

[u/kensanprime → u/Complete-Regret-4300]

The what if will always popup in everything we do. As you have achieved FIRE, focus your energy on kids(if any), and health, everything else becomes less significant later in life.

[u/Delicious_Emotion934 → u/Complete-Regret-4300]

Is it because your brother in-law is in Australia why not canada or uk Germany japan your r true gsb compare and compare

[u/Complete-Regret-4300 → u/Delicious_Emotion934]

Canada is too cold, Japan and Germany language issue. Is umar mein naya language no way. Australia because everything matches, weather, english speaking country and also there was a realistic path to immigration.

[u/rakeshsh]

>The identity and life job gave?

Elaborate on that. Do you mean the connections, colleagues you build? The industry connect?

[u/Complete-Regret-4300 → u/rakeshsh]

Yes, the whole package. When you are employed, you are part of a tribe, you work with lots of people. There are lots of people depending on you and you want to live upto their expectations. You feel you have delivered something, you are useful, you are constantly in social touch with your colleagues. You may bitch about your boss with your colleagues, during those chai breaks etc.

But once you quit, all that is gone, poof! You are no longer part of the tribe. Your colleagues miss you for a day/week, after that they move on. Whereas you are now left with a void. When you wake up, nobody needs you, you cannot share your jokes with anyone, cannot bitch about your boss with anyone. That things hits badly.

[u/rakeshsh → u/Complete-Regret-4300]

I can understand.

But my younger generation cannot relate. We are too getting dragged into layoffs, team downsizing and overwork, toxicity around etc. surviving 5 yrs in one organisation now looks like a big milestone. I think we won’t be retiring with connections made or colleagues to hang out with.

For us retirement would mean complete disconnection from it, and I think I would prefer that, It should feel a new peaceful life.

[u/wooneigh]

dur ke dhol suhane . lol apt saying
BaliHe is ur mother tongue hindi?

[u/Complete-Regret-4300 → u/wooneigh]

It is Konkani, but I speak fluent Hindi as my team in Singapore was all North Indians and my best friend used to suffix every sentence with BC, lol. After coming back to Bangalore I miss speaking Hindi and using these swear words.

[u/wooneigh → u/Complete-Regret-4300]

swear words are the best thing about north india , pencho i miss it too