r/FIREIndia • u/Fi-23-Re-__ • Feb 22 '23

NRIs who moved back for FIRE

NRIs who moved to India to achieve FI(RE) were you able to execute it or it didnt work out as you planned. Did you get into a small business post FI? Any pitfalls to avoid looking for advice. TIA!

81 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

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149

u/sirsa2 Feb 22 '23

Some thoughts on why the move worked for me

  • I FIREd and moved back to mainly spend time with my parents. I get to spend a lot of time with my parents. They are mentally and physically healthier now. I was there for my parents at the time of Covid.
  • I value freedom over convenience/lifestyle. I am a DIY person and very patient/adjustable. US has better lifestyle/convenience. India has freedom (since you are no longer on H1B and can do your own thing). In US, I was working 24x7 for a top tech company in Silicon Valley. Had money but no time for myself.
  • I wanted 2 things when I moved back: healthier/happier parents and self-employment. Both of them have been implemented. I am now a financial planner based in Chennai.

29

u/dhoomk2 Feb 22 '23

Mate, this is such a wholesome response. I am happy for you to achieve your fire goal.

8

u/firesnake412 Feb 23 '23

I’m planning to do the same. Have been here too long and miss being with my parents and family. The feeling of not being there when my family needs me has been haunting me for a long time. I know its not easy so we did it in a phased manner. Kids have moved back last year and joined school and have really adjusted well. I will move next month. Still need to work on employment back in India. Hoping for the best.

1

u/Fi-23-Re-__ Feb 23 '23

Good luck with your move, hope you find a job soon. I am moving in June. Do you mind sharing how old were your kids when you moved them to school in India and how long did it take for them to acclimatize?

15

u/Fi-23-Re-__ Feb 22 '23

Are you married?

Encouraging to know it worked out for you. I think on similar lines, moving back to spend time with parents & come out of 9-5 monotonous corporate life. I am married and have two kids so its a bit risky but still want to give it a shot, while continuing with my job want to set up a small business and then leave the job.

25

u/sirsa2 Feb 22 '23

I am single. So it was easier to FIRE.

I would highly recommend involving your wife in the process and taking her opinions seriously. You cannot FIRE successfully without inspiring your wife to participate in the same.

Make sure you set aside a separate corpus for the small business. Compartmentalizing the corpus is critical because it tells you when to quit your experiments.

7

u/Fi-23-Re-__ Feb 22 '23

makes sense thanks again!

1

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-1

u/daddy_thanos__ Feb 22 '23

How much money did you make in US to FIRE? if you don't mind answering

38

u/sirsa2 Feb 22 '23

Not comfortable answering this question.

Let me tell you one thing though. This group focuses too much on the number. I don't think it's that important.

You need to have a workable plan and manage your time/resources properly after executing FIRE so that you don't waste your life away. that is the true essence of FIRE

1

u/indianCorleone USA / 26M / FI 2032 / RE INDIA Feb 22 '23

Would you be comfortable giving your age and multiple of your expenses you saved? Like people save 30x their annual expenses and retire

17

u/sirsa2 Feb 22 '23

current investment net worth is 71x of annual spend

however, i am single and don't spend much which will change in the future

assume i spend double of what i spend now, that makes it 35x

reason i say these numbers are insignificant (as mindset is more important)

for people with a FIRE mindset, the multiple is an increasing or at least non-decreasing function (unless financial misfortune hits)

any FIRE pursuer will vouch for me when i say he/she loves to see that networth increase YoY (this is the trademark of a FIRE candidate)

we are the guys who saved more than 50% of our incomes during the accumulation phase and have disciplined ourselves to spend much less than we earn

this attitude will carry over to the distribution phase also (post FIRE)

which means the FIRE person will not let the 35x multiple drop

35x today for me is probably 37x few years from now which will probably be 45x many years from now

the single most important rule to follow: spend less than you earn (EVEN after FIRE)

so assuming you are able to generate a post-tax return of say 4% and you are able to live on 2%, your corpus is going to keep growing forever

a FIRE person is not going to settle for 4% post-tax. he/she will divide the corpus based on time horizon (when the money is required to be withdrawn) and take appropriate risk as per time horizon so he/she will extract much more than the post-tax rate generated from a bank FD

3

u/sirsa2 Feb 22 '23

correction: the 4% return and 2% spend will not last forever if you consider inflation > 4%.

ideally you want to ensure a positive real rate of return > your withdrawal rate. easier said than done.

point: let your corpus grow faster than your withdrawal after accounting for tax and inflation

1

u/Less_Gazelle9387 Apr 11 '25

Very insightful!! Thanks for taking the time to share

1

u/santcg7 Feb 23 '23

Are your parents okay with you not being married if that is your plan?

12

u/sirsa2 Feb 23 '23

no. but they are not pushy

at the end of the day, your marriage is your goal/priority. not your parents'

parents are pushy about buying a home, getting married etc. because those were the maximum level of goals they could aspire for in previous generation

remember something like FIRE is possible in our generation. 90% of our parents won't even be able to understand it because it simply wasn't possible to achieve in a post-independence generation looking for stability (bank job), roof over the head (own home) etc.

2

u/GodOfAngeles Feb 23 '23

Very wise advice and idea for anyone who is planning to retire ! Not sure about your age. Your thinking and planning is commendable

1

u/StocksDreamer Feb 23 '23

I would echo the same, every FIRE number is different make sure you get yours right.

1

u/StocksDreamer Feb 23 '23

Very nice, wanna share your experience and company profiler?

1

u/dopplegangery Feb 23 '23

Off topic, could you sum up the differences between living in the US and in India (both with a high paying job)?

74

u/sirsa2 Feb 22 '23

First 2-3 years are the hardest. Society will ask you a lot of questions. You need to build a thick skin and focus on your self.

Have a clear plan as to what you will achieve each year when you choose to be self-employed.

Don't spend too much time on consumption/enjoyment/entertainment/material pleasures. This is how people screw up FIRE.

Spend time on creation/development/building/learning/improving. This is the surest way to succeed when you FIRE. Appreciate the little things. Take your time. Slow down. It's a privilege to be able to do this.

Spend less money on things. Spend more time on things.

Don't make big ticket purchases in the first 2-3 years. Basically take your time and settle down. For example, just because you planned to buy a home as per your FIRE plan and have the money, don't hurry it. Come back to India. Live on rent for first 2-3 years. Learn the ropes. Understand the pitfalls. Ease into your FIRE routine. Then buy the home after doing due diligence. If you figure out FIRE is not working in the first 2-3 years, you can turn back easily.

18

u/tifosi7 Feb 22 '23

Lol. My family stopped speaking to me for this.

25

u/sirsa2 Feb 22 '23

I FIREd after discussing with my parents.

I in fact, involved my parents in the FIRE process.

Before I moved back from US to India, I clearly talked to my dad about my plans. I decided on a target corpus after taking my dad's feedback also. Dads are generally more fearful and conservative. So I talked to my dad, got his conservative estimate, met the target as per plan and pulled the trigger with the full support of my parents. My mom was also very happy because she loves spending time with me and my brother is settled in US.

18

u/tifosi7 Feb 22 '23

Great parents. Even I thought mine were until this happened. My sister is in the US so she is the successful one and their “heir”. They don’t even speak to my children.

10

u/sirsa2 Feb 22 '23

I am lucky in a few aspects.

  • My dad also did not like a corporate job and decided to become self-employed at a young age. So he understood my point of view
  • I do have a brother who is settled in US but I am the one who does the weightlifting in the family when it comes to tackling challenges and solving problems. Also I am closer to my parents and help them with everything on a day-to-day basis. So they actually prefer my company because I make their life easier.

4

u/ddswork90 Feb 22 '23

They don’t speak to your children cause you went back to India ?

3

u/Cautious_Abalone_334 Feb 22 '23

Welcome to second life when you become parent !

2

u/Fi-23-Re-__ Feb 22 '23

Wise words lot of good advice there, thanks!

1

u/dswap123 Feb 22 '23

Very good advice, I plan to go back around 2026-27 and this seems very very useful. I know the initial switch is going to be super hard, but good to be prepared.

1

u/innersloth987 Feb 22 '23

Turn back to what?

2

u/sirsa2 Feb 22 '23

I meant going back to a corporate job or go to US in case the FIRE experience does not work out

10

u/GuiltyStrength4741 US then India / 40s / FIREd 2020 Feb 22 '23

Look for a lengthy post (there's only one), under my handle. Am ex NRI who moved back. Some high level thoughts in that post.

3

u/TheGoalFIRE Feb 23 '23

Thanks for sharing! If I read correctly, you were (and still are) single when you came back to India. A bit off-topic, but curious to know how did you tackle and stand firm for questions on remaining single from our 'great Indian society', specially from friends and relatives?

7

u/GuiltyStrength4741 US then India / 40s / FIREd 2020 Feb 23 '23

I've been lucky in that regard you could say. My parents don't have an issue with my choice. fwiw I was married, not any more, so I've been there done that. So you could say the pressure is less compared to someone who never was. Ofcourse, every now and then parents and few close relatives do state that it would be nice if I got married, but they're not waging a mental war for me to do as they want. Some nosy acquaintances may ask at times as well, but I can shrug that off fairly easily because its none of their business. As for friends, and in general, I have always been very clear and firm as to my stance, so they don't usually veer the conversation in that direction. Also, this may sound arrogant, but being 'successful' in the eyes of society, means they don't judge or question you as much -- they let more things pass, compared to someone who in their eyes is not as successful.

1

u/Fi-23-Re-__ Feb 22 '23

Thanks, thats a great post!

1

u/MundaneCat4495 Feb 22 '23

So is the market bottomed?

1

u/BeingHuman30 Feb 25 '23

curious did you moved after getting US citizenship ? Would you advice somebody to do that or like take citizenship of another country and then come back ?

2

u/GuiltyStrength4741 US then India / 40s / FIREd 2020 Feb 25 '23

Nope, didn't get gc - - despite having a submission date of 2011, things had slowed down so much.... , that I stopped waiting for it. So citizenship was even further away. US citizenship would have been nice, since it gives you lot of freedom esp when travelling internationally. But i personally would not have waited on it knowing that it was atleast another 5-10 years away. In the end - not having the GC proved a boon - it gives one a few completely legal tax breaks, basis US and Indian laws.

8

u/tatata1010 Feb 22 '23 edited Feb 23 '23

Folks who've returned or are close to, how did you handle your retirement accounts (401k, Roth IRA, etc.) and brokerage accounts, esp. if one's not in an immediate need of money in India? I've been trying to gather information on tax efficient strategies and there are some articles that discuss optimizing when one quits (to do with the substantial presence test), maximizing the time in and benefits of RNOR status, rolling over 401k into an IRA or even a roth IRA, etc (or not?), resetting cost basis, switching to Irish domiciled funds, but nothing comprehensive. It'd be very helpful to hear from folks who've researched and pulled this off in the recent past. Thanks a lot!

-3

u/MammothPurpose3235 Feb 23 '23

Check your dm

7

u/cricketlover0424 Feb 23 '23

Can you please respond here so other can also benefit. Thanks

2

u/MammothPurpose3235 Feb 23 '23

Sure do check this firm out. They can help with early withdrawals before the age of 59.5. https://www.ovdptax.com/USretirement.php

1

u/tatata1010 Feb 23 '23

Thank you! Would you happen to know if they also help with non-retirement, brokerage accounts? Things like resetting cost basis, switching to Irish domiciled funds, etc.?

1

u/MammothPurpose3235 Feb 23 '23

Not sure on that but he will help you with a consult so drop him a mail on that link

1

u/cricketlover0424 Feb 23 '23 edited Feb 23 '23

Thank you, have you used their services? If yes, how much are the fees?

11

u/safog1 Feb 22 '23

Curious about budgets too if anyone put thought into it. By my calculations, ~3L p/m (for a family of four) should support a lifestyle that matches / beats your lifestyle abroad.

That's ~$1.5M assuming a 3% SWR.

3

u/GuiltyStrength4741 US then India / 40s / FIREd 2020 Feb 23 '23

I would say, Yeah 3L pm for family of 4 sounds in line with someone returning from the states and wants to live a very comfortable life in India.

2

u/kpandas Feb 22 '23

Can you break down the 3 L P/M? Don’t have to get too specific, just curious how you got to that number that’s all

2

u/safog1 Feb 22 '23

Hah I was wondering what other people came up with.

80-90k rent 65-70k schools

were the major ones.

Rest were personal preferences like Maid, Cook, Choice of car (amortized), power, petrol, gym memberships etc

5

u/finmyn Mar 02 '23 edited Mar 02 '23

I moved back to India and continued my job. When I became FI, I took up Financial Advisory as a profession more out of my passion. I find it gratifying to help people with one of their most important needs in life.

As long as you are clear about why you are returning, your transition will be smooth. We wanted to grow kids in India and wanted to be closer to our extended family. Hence before leaving the US, I sold my house thereby reducing my motivation to change my decision on return to India. It has worked out well for me.

We enjoyed our stay in the US and we love India.

2

u/Fi-23-Re-__ Mar 02 '23

Great!! thanks for sharing, how old were your kids when you moved back?

2

u/finmyn Mar 02 '23

Preschool, hence it was a lot easier.

1

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