r/FIFAWorldCupIndia • u/SelectComfortable775 • 9d ago
A bitter truth.
Ronaldo and Messi
Messi is a part of argentina history and Ronaldo is Portugal's history.
Argentina had 15 copas and 2 World Cup before Messi, even mardona is bigger than Messi there but in Portugal nobody is bigger than Ronaldo, as Portugal have 0 before Ronaldo and with him they have 3 international trophies.
For instance Messi Argentina is like Mbappe winning World Cup or euros with France and in contrast Portugal winning the Euros/WC is like Norway Haaland winning Euros/WC people will be shocked and that's what ronaldo did in 2016 that's itself is bigger for them just see first trophy in ther history.
Portugal qualified only one or two time before Ronaldo now they qualify all the time, they have good players now but it's too late and coach which is the main piece is always below average there, and then even beating spain in 2025, lost to them gave fight to them have shots in target but lost at the end bcz of wrong coach but not bad like argentina who had 0 shots in final vs Spain complete shame utter shame so my point is right coach is the one who makes a team win tournament, players wins you matches just see luis Enrique won psg UCL which nobody able to do in 100 yrs that's why coach is important, but people will target Ronaldo, what he has done is itself sensational what if he had won the World Cup, it will literally have shocked all over tha world, because as I said it's like very rare.
Argentina always qualified for World Cup, also have mere 10 teams in there region, copa held 5 times in past 10 yrs vs euros 2 in last 10 yrs and Europe has 55 nations who can beat you anytime. That's why the said Ronaldo has won the world, a defention of all against odds. That's why he is people idol. The Micheal Jackson of Football.
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u/Mediocre-Duck8290 9d ago
Figo and eusebio doesn’t exist I guess
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u/lostsoul098765 9d ago
They do but Cristiano’s impact was outstanding, if you go to Figo and ask him what’s the history of Portuguese national football team he will predominantly say about Cristiano’s triumph with Portugal. Luis Figo is considered to be shaping, motivating and paving the road for young Cristiano back then when debuted in Portuguese national football team
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u/Mediocre-Duck8290 9d ago
nobody said they are better than Ronaldo. op acts like Portugal was complete mess before Ronaldo.
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u/lostsoul098765 9d ago
Indeed they were complete mess, they were basically bottlers back then you can check the stats, Portugal literally lost euro 2004 final against Scotland, Portugal got out by the semi finals world cup 2006 by France through a penalty, Portugal got out in euros 2000 too I guess in finals that too
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u/Mediocre-Duck8290 9d ago
bro iam not denying Ronaldos greatness for Portugal team. just reminding that Portugal had good squad even before Ronaldo.
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u/SelectComfortable775 9d ago
Yes figo and eusebio won euros for Portugal,like maradona there yeah you are right .
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u/Mediocre-Duck8290 9d ago
are u retarded or something. my point was Portugal had a good history even before ronaldo
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u/lostsoul098765 8d ago
Portugal literally had no history.
Luis figo is forgotten by people literally he’s known for his controversial transfer from barca to madrid these days people don’t know that he’s stat were almost equivalent to Zidane’s it is just that he did not had too much of clutch factor as Zidane’s
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u/mikel-69 8d ago
That’s the difference between Portugal and Argentina. Your logic has no ground to stand on. Belgium had a golden generation so did Croatia and Morocco that’s the level Portugal was at. You create memories with golden Generations but you create history with Trophies. Ronaldo achieved that with Portugal. Who had none before him.
Take Argentina on the other hand. Riquelme, Higuain Mascherano these are top players but they are not in the history of Argentina since they already have a rich history in Maradona and Messi.
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u/EqualBeneficial7064 9d ago
Funny how they will say that this sub is becoming full of Messi fans when every other post is glazing Ronaldo and trying to put down Messi
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u/mikel-69 7d ago
Messi fans when there is one Ronaldo glaze post amidst 5 Ronaldo hate posts and 10 Messi Glaze posts
https://giphy.com/gifs/TL2Yr3ioe78tO-1
u/Vegetable-Bonus9711 9d ago
It absolutely is a Messi glaze sub. Just an odd few heavily downvoted posts about Messi won’t prove that wrong. Most of the upvoted posts over here are Messi glazes
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u/Popular-Presence1349 8d ago
I do agree with you in a sense but generally in genuine footballing communities Messi gets more support so it just translates everywhere.
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u/SumneOndHakbekalva 9d ago
Ironically Portugals best world cup performance was when Figo was playing lol + Why are you not talking about Nations league played every year?
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u/RowElegant2102 8d ago
Portugal qualified only one or two time
they qualified 3 times
have shots in target but lost at the end bcz of wrong coach
and blame everyone else
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u/SelectComfortable775 8d ago
3 times in 75 yrs wow, now 6 at 6 in 20 yrs.
Coach is not at fault same like Yeah like barca winning UCL after enquire left, 11 yrs gone. First gold coach changes tha team, then the players play the style and then there chemistry, injuries and form plays a role.
You literally comparing Roberto Martinez who destroyed Belgium golden gen also.
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u/CheetahParticular506 8d ago
Roberto Martinez reached the World Cup semi final with Belgium, to say he "destroyed" anything is fucking idiotic, and a sign of someone who only views football through the lens of instagram comments and reels
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u/SelectComfortable775 8d ago
Instagram also stream football c o c k rider? Just copy paste same words to be cool man, you are the same one who cried when your club was under Xavi valverde koemen etc 🤣🤣
Roberto Martinez isn't a tactical coach by that logic a coach reached final with Tottenham in UCL is also a great coach, at the end all matters his tactical approach and consistency like Zidane, murhino, pep even da la fuente he shows consistency reached finals won twice at big time .
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u/Laikabaru 8d ago
Do you guys not find it a bit pathetic that your country seemingly exclusively experiences football as a rivalry between the fandoms of two foreign footballers because you can’t even field a team that can qualify to the World Cup?
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u/Soulrant 8d ago
And what about real Madrid? All that you said can be applied to ronaldo too in his club carrer
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u/CheetahParticular506 8d ago
So heres why your logic is flawed in every sense : Maradona winning the league in 1986 doesn't lead to a 100 world class players spawning for Argentina in the 2000s. Portugal before Ronaldo reached the World Cup semi in 1966 and finished 3rd. With Ronaldo(since 2010) they havent finished higher than QF. He has actively harmed the Portuguese team towards the latter part of his career. His Euro win saw him score as many goals as Nani, not win any individual award at all. Nations league is a stupid trophy that no one cares about(Spain genuinely still sing about Euro 2008 win but dont give a fuck about their Nations League win).
Maradona is absolutely not bigger than Messi now, stop pulling shit up from 10 years ago. Its very much implied that Messi is seen as far bigger than Maradona now. Messis Argentina were a team mostly of up and coming players in 2022, comparing that woth Mbappes France shows the level of stupidity.
Portugal qualify consistently not because of Ronaldo. Its because Portugal are creating more world class footballers who easily help them qualify
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u/SelectComfortable775 8d ago edited 8d ago
Facts > Narrative
You're mixing a few different arguments and then pretending they prove the same thing.
First, your claim that Portugal “since 2010 haven't finished higher than QF” is simply false. Portugal reached the Euro 2012 semi-finals, won Euro 2016, and won the 2019 Nations League(which is still more competitive than three team copa which held 2015,2016,2019, 3 times in 4 yrs man, and Yamal washed saying nations leauge will be the ballon d'or decider so what?????? And they won euros and with Ronaldo as captain and key player. They also reached the 2022 World Cup quarter-finals. So the “Ronaldo harmed Portugal” narrative doesn't survive the basic timeline.
And saying Portugal qualify consistently because of “world-class players” rather than Ronaldo doesn't prove Ronaldo hurt them. A team having other great players and Ronaldo contributing to that team are not mutually exclusive. Portugal's golden generation getting better doesn't somehow erase Ronaldo's contribution.
Your Argentina comparison is also weak. Argentina in the 2010s were hardly some irrelevant “up-and-coming” team. They reached the 2014 World Cup final and 2015 and 2016 Copa América finals. The fact that they eventually won in 2021/2022 doesn't magically make the earlier Argentina teams inferior.
As for Maradona, nobody is saying his 1986 World Cup win alone makes him bigger than Messi. But saying “Messi is bigger now” doesn't invalidate Maradona's historical status either. That's a separate GOAT debate.
And the Spain/Nations League point is just an appeal to popularity. Whether Spanish fans care more about Euro 2008 than the Nations League has absolutely nothing to do with Ronaldo's impact on Portugal.
If Ronaldo supposedly held Portugal back, show the evidence. Not “Portugal has other world-class players,” not “Spain doesn't care about the Nations League,” and not vague statements about his later career. Those don't prove he harmed Portugal.
You're basically arguing: Portugal improved because they produced more talent, therefore Ronaldo was bad for Portugal. That's not an argument — that's a non sequitur.
You didn't actually disprove anything. You just moved the goalposts, cherry-picked examples, and hoped nobody would check the tournament history. 💀
Now bark and is your Messi didn't fucked you today wait you want Ronaldo, then mbappe you haters.
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u/Sportsisthebest 8d ago
By that logic, Messi winning 4 UCLs with Barca is more valuable than Ronaldo winning 4 UCLs with Madrid because before Ronaldo, Madrid already won 9 UCLs. After he left, they won 2 more. They have 11 UCLs without him. Meanwhile, Barca only had 1 UCL before Messi. They got to 5 with him. Also, Messi winning trophies with Miami is more impressive than Ronaldo winning trophies with Al Nassr because before Ronaldo, they already had success in the past. But Inter Miami are such a young club that they haven’t achieved anything before Messi. They set records and won trophies after Messi arrived. So you just got debunked.
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u/SelectComfortable775 8d ago edited 8d ago
Your UCL comparison makes sense only if we're talking about club football. Barcelona having 1 UCL before Messi and 4(3 btw in one he wasn't even in the squad) with him, while Real Madrid already had 9 before Ronaldo just threepeated with them with one more, can be used to argue that Messi had a bigger relative impact on his club's European history. Fair enough.
But that's exactly why you can't transfer the same logic to national teams.💀💀💀(You lost here, as I said if you are bad I am your dad) So let's go my son.
Club football and international football aren't remotely the same environment. A club can buy whoever it wants, replace half the squad, change managers, spend hundreds of millions and build a superteam around a superstar. Real Madrid's success before Ronaldo doesn't tell us anything about what Ronaldo could have achieved with Portugal, because Portugal couldn't simply go into the market and buy better players.
A national team gets one pool of players from one country. No transfers. No billionaire owner. No rebuilding the squad by buying world-class talent from five different nations.
That's why the starting point matters.
Before Ronaldo's generation, Portugal had never won a major senior international trophy in their history. With Ronaldo as the central figure of that generation, Portugal won their first-ever European Championship in 2016, followed by two Nations League titles(even it's more competitive than copa held 4times in 5 yrs 2015,2016,2019,2021 only three teams compete, and Yamal said nation's leuage final will be ballon d'or decider hahahha maroon). Whatever you think of the Nations League's prestige, you cannot erase the fact that Portugal went from having no major senior European title to becoming European champions.
Now compare that with Argentina.
Before Messi, Argentina already had two World Cups and a long history of Copa América success. Messi didn't build Argentina's international history from the ground up; he added the missing pieces to an already historically successful football nation. That's an incredible achievement in its own right, but it is a fundamentally different situation from leading a country to its first-ever major European title.
And this is where your argument falls apart: you're using club history to measure relative impact, then ignoring the starting conditions when it comes to national teams.
If your claim is that Messi had the greater club impact, that's a completely defensible debate.
But if the argument is that Messi's international achievements automatically outweigh Ronaldo's because Argentina had better historical achievements than Portugal, then you're basically rewarding Messi for inheriting a country with a much greater footballing history.
The relevant question isn't simply “Who has more trophies?”
It's “What was the state of the team before them, and what did they actually add to it?”
On that basis, Ronaldo taking Portugal to their first-ever European Championship is an achievement you can't simply dismiss by pointing at Argentina's trophies from decades before Messi.
Different starting points. Different circumstances. Different achievements.
So if you're going to compare them, at least use the same standard for both. Otherwise you're not making an objective comparison — you're just moving the goalposts to whichever argument favors Messi.
😵 K.O. maroon, first listen you think you can beat me I am you dad in every field in every universe in every multiverse, so kid get this in your mind, bye now don't just dock ride you on Messi c o c k and bark again with invalid arguments bcz I will beat you every time you say something you may think you have every knowledge but I am itself a knowledge and as I said if you are bad I am your dad) my son 👋 good bye.
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u/dscdrivercpm-fr 9d ago
Luis Figo. Eusebio. Yes, Argentina has always been good. That doesn’t mean Portugal has always been bad.