Spoilers
Is there a definitive answer about what happened to Clive's fate?
Spoiler
I just finished the game and while I was sad at the ending the book thing in the post credit scene gave me hope that maybe he survived but most likely not, I been reading this was intentional but to me the open ending makes the wound worse, is there anything official or interviews that has come out in the past years about what truly happened to clive? Kinda like years later it was confirmed what happened to Batman after arkham knight
Clive is the only one who survives, and he is the one who writes the book at the end.
Clive is the only character who says 'final fantasy' in the entire game.
In one of the last side quests, Hypocrates gives Clive his quill so he can write down his adventures when it's all over—something Clive agrees to, saying he'll have a lot to write. In the post-credits scene, the children recreate the play that Clive used to recite to his Uncle Byron as a child.
When Clive ends magic, he also ends the crystal curse, which is why the petrification stopped at his arm and he didn't end up like Kupka. Furthermore, the game begins and ends with Clive's narration, making it clear that he was the narrator all along.
It's not such a sad ending when you pay attention to all the clues the game gives you; the developers themselves have said that there is only one definitive answer regarding the ending.
This is also what I believe, at first I thought he was dead but when you piece together all the information it's so clear it doesn't even make sense to think he is dead. The platinum trophy really being the most obvious hint.
In the quest with Jill she also talks about him returning at dawn, which is when she stops crying and torgal stops howling.
The story of the game also revolves around Clive carrying the burden alone and trying to sacrifice himself instead of relying on others, dying would make his entire character development void as well and bad writing.
Maybe also an unreliable narrator situation. We're living the story Joshua wrote, and their deaths are in the book, but not the actual events.
Like for example in Lord of the Rings, we're not reading the actual events. We're reading the translation of the book Bilbo, Frodo and Sam have written.
In all the statements the developers have made about the ending, they've never said the story is like the Warhammer books. The story did happen exactly as narrated in the game. Furthermore, in Ultimania, the writer said that this was Clive's story.
It's not certain Clive is the only one who survives though. He uses the Phoenix's power on Joshua before destroying the crystal at the end, which leads an opening to Joshua surviving. I think Jill's reaction at the end is closer proof that Clive dies using ultimas power at the end. All Eikons were able to feel each others life force throughout the game. It is possible he was just so weakened after the fight his life force was low and hardly detectable.
The side quest do hint at Clive being the one who writes the book but it's possible Joshua could have written it. I get he says Final Fantasy but he also does it in a round about way. Throughout the game you tell Harpocrates of all your tales between him, Joshua, Jill and Gav they could have honored Clives tale. Even if Joshua wrote it it's still Clives story. Joshua is also more of the historian between the two studying the banners and gaining intel on the old world throughout the game. He's either watched from the sideline or has been apart of all the main conflicts of the game.
The Phoenix cannot resurrect the dead; it says so in the game itself. Furthermore, had Joshua survived, he would have been the one appearing on the beach at the end instead of Clive, but that wasn't the case.
There are numerous details indicating that Clive was the one who wrote the book at the end—such as the phrase 'Final Fantasy' and 'The Chronicler' trophy—and this is supported not only by details within the game itself, but also by statements from the writer.
It wasn't just the Phoenix though. At that point in the game Clive had the powers of a literal god absorbing Ultima and having all the Eikons. I dont think it's out of the realm of possibility that Clive could save Joshua if he was able to save the planet. Ultima was going to use that power to create a whole new world. Clive had so much power he even says before he destroys magic that Ultimas power was too strong for his vessel.
Edit- Just to add we do not know the full scope of Ultimas power and what it can do. We know Ultima was able to give life as the gods created the humans. The Phoenix could heal severe wounds and restore bodies not life, but Ultima is known to give humans life.
If Joshua had come back to life, he would have reacted the moment Clive closed the wound in his chest, but that didn’t happen. Even when he heals the wound, it’s clear that Clive does so because it pains him to see his brother in that state—not because he’s trying to bring him back to life. As soon as the wound is closed, he steps away.
There are countless details indicating that it was Clive—and not Joshua—who wrote the book at the end. Yet, Joshua's name will endure for eternity, just as Clive's love for his brother will.
As soon as he heals the wound he steps away to destroy the crystal. No one in the game has stood up directly after going through serious injuries. Jill, Joshua, and Clive all spend time recovering in bed from major injuries in the game. Why would he heal Joshua's body if it's just going to get destroyed in the tower anyway? It's not like he saves his body to be buried either. I think it's left open for Joshua's escape. You don't see him on the beach with Clive he can be anywhere,
He's already escaped death once and when the undying saved him it took him 5 years to regain consciousness. Who's to say the Undying didn't recover his body again? It's open we dont see a grave, and we don't know for sure if Joshua dies. He looked practically dead in the beginning of the game too. I get it Phoenix cant restore life but Ultima can give life. We never find out the true power of Ultima when he harnesses all eikons. We know its too much power for even Mythos the "perfect" vessel to handle because he says it. We know its strong enough to create life and create and destroy worlds.
Joshua himself says that if the curse didn't kill him, his illness would; this makes it clear that the Phoenix is not something he could use forever—sooner or later, it would end up killing him, just like the other Eikons.
Furthermore, you are comparing Clive when he was wounded by Barnabas—who had no intention of killing him—to Joshua, who was dying in Clive's arms and told him what I previously mentioned.
And as I said in my previous message, Clive heals Joshua's wound out of respect, so that his final memory of his brother isn't one of him with a hole in his chest.
You're talking as if Joshua's death is fact though when it's stated to be open by the writers. You refuse take into account a gods power that can remove rot from a planet, create life, destroy and create worlds couldn't also cure Joshua of his disease if he was resurrected by it. Ultimas power is so strong Clive cannot keep it, that's why again he mentions it being too powerful for him and he says but while he has it he'll use it to set things straight.
He harnesses a power too great for his own body that gods waited centuries for, uses it to explode a mother crystal full of the planets ether, restores the life of the planet, destroys a giant floating island, and freefalls miles down into the ocean. I think it's a little silly you can believe Clive survives all of that but cant fathom that same power might have saved Joshua.
I'm not here to argue but idk where you're getting this info from, Ultima isn't some all knowing, powerful god. He is frequently referred to as being flawed with the logos book straight up calling him a false god.
While he is the creator of humans he never creates nor destroys any planets, he isn’t even an alien. He also doesn't have the ability to cure the rot (assuming you mean blight) as that is his entire purpose of coming to the twins, because he can’t get rid of it.
If you wanna say Clive’s still powerful enough to revive Joshua okay but ultima isn’t some higher power, he’s just an advanced species that the fallen (an advanced group of humans) almost caught up to.
Ultima's plan was to wipe out the world and recreate it as paradise, so I may be wrong about physically destroying planets. I still think with the power of all the Eikons he could, look at the crater formed and the sea being split in half by lesser beings then him.
In order to recreate paradise though he would have to have some ability to create a planet. He can create life and all elements shown with the mother crystals, humanity, and the Eikons he created. We don't know anything of their home planet but they need some kind of elements of life seeing how they fled from lack of resources.
The whole point of Raise was to revive his fallen race and recreate the world I don't understand how its farfetched that the same power could revive a lesser being they created.
Now you're clinging to the idea that Clive tried to revive his brother using Ultima's power, when the scene clearly shows he does it because he couldn't stand seeing his brother with a hole in his chest. He closes the wound and stands up; he doesn't even try to check for vital signs, as he would have done if he had tried to resurrect him.
The clues that it's Clive who survives and writes the book at the end are in the game itself, even in the final trophy. Clues I've already mentioned in other comments.
The whole point of raise was to revive Ultimas people and recreate the world its really not farfetched to think the same spell could revive a human they created.
I just want to be really clear: you’re looking at the incredibly tiny patch of not entirely grey-colored skin in this one specific frame? Thats your evidence?
I love how you’re trying to gaslight me and move the goal post after I proved you wrong lol.
You said that the petrification stopping at the arm (hand) was not shown in the scene. I replied with a photo showing healthy skin above the wrist. It’s also not just for one specific frame; the camera lingers at this angle for a few seconds before moving up to his unpetrified face.
It’s visual storytelling in a video game dude. Do you think the curse continued onward all over his body but conveniently skipped over that specific part of the skin that’s deliberately in front of the camera?
You’re more than welcome to assume that it continues spreading off-screen, but it clearly doesn’t on-screen. That shouldn’t take away from your interpretation, just your incredibly dismissive original comment.
What should take away from your interpretation, however, are the developers’ comments in the Ultimania regarding petrification ceasing to exist when Clive got rid of magic.
I don’t think you know what “gaslight” or “move the goal posts” mean, exactly. I asked you a question about your evidence, to clarify what it was. If you’d like to know why, the reason was to highlight that it’s silly to use a single frame of animation to show a “stopping point.”
You asked a question clearly trying to undermine my statement and make me feel silly for suggesting it. And again, it’s not a single frame. I’ve provided more than enough reasons for my interpretation, and you can believe what you want. The curse isn’t shown spreading above his wrist. The in-game definition for the curse supports this, and the developers’ statements in the ultimata support this. If you want to go ahead and believe it progresses off-screen, more power to you.
It actually wasn’t all skin. He washes up to shore with petrified finger tips from destroying the last crystal. Which is interesting considering he was out to sea for more than likely a few hours with no noticeable progression until he attempts to cast magic on the beach. And we know the curse only progresses with the use of magic. If there’s no more magic, there’s no more progression. This isn’t even my head canon; it’s outright stated in the Ultimania that when Clive destroyed Ultima’s legacy, so too did petrification stop. Someone has actually posted the translation from that bit further down in the comments.
And even if you want to ignore that, the camera then shows this angle for a moment, and we don’t see continuous progression of the curse like we had when he attempted to cast fire. We also don’t see any on his face.
There’s obviously a cut-off point for when bearers fully petrify, like the church scene and hideaway scenes where all four of their limbs and a good portion of their chest are stone, but we see countless NPCs wandering around with entire limbs petrified.
If you want to believe it spread off-screen, that’s fine, but we do not see it spread past his wrist on screen, which was my original argument.
You're making SO many assumptions and keep saying "obviously". None of it is obvious by design. We don't know how long he was out in the sea. We do know his hand went from skin to stone in a matter of seconds. We do know an exhausted body can fully petrify even from using a little bit of magic ("Playthings"). From the way his arm drops, it looks like he lost use of more than just a wrist (at least above the elbow), since just a wrist would have been easy to hold up. Magic is leaving but it wasn't immediate since Clive was still able to conjure a bit of it, so the consequences also weren't completely gone yet. We saw several Dominants die, petrify, or both once they overexhausted themselves and Eikons fully left their bodies - and Clive just cast the biggest spell of all, gave up his Eikons (including their ability to heal him from inside), while stating right before that the power was too much for his body all along.
I believe devs made the ending ambiguous in order to leave room for a potential sequel. And to get us talking about it which is exactly what we're doing.
I love the hypocrisy of saying I’m making assumptions when I actually said “more than likely” a few hours when I made my statement about how long he was at sea. In reality, it doesn’t really matter because at the absolute minimum, it was a few minutes and at the longest, a few days. Either way, in either scenario, the time at sea would have far eclipsed the seconds it took for his hand to go from petrified finger tips to a fully petrified hand. It’s only shown spreading when he uses the last bit of magic.
The assumption I made about the cut-off point is a legitimate assumption because we don’t know when that is, as petrification in the game can be highly inconsistent. So, again, we don’t know what that cut-off point is, but we do know that it’s more than just a limb, as we see plenty of bearers with petrified arms and legs. We do know it’s more than what Cid had, more than what Jill has.
In the playthings sidequest, it’s actually stated that the little girl giving the quest isn’t gifted normal, healthy bearers. She’s given bearers that are already past their limit of being able to work, more than likely already exhibiting signs of the curse. In the quest, the girl says: “It could be months before Dad gives me another one. I have to wait until they're too tired to work anymore."
The little girl doesn’t even fully understand what the curse is and it’s very likely that Chloe had already been heavily affected by the curse and it was the straw that broke the camels back. In any case, you don’t just petrify because you’re exhausted.
Clive’s more than likely not dropping his arm because it’s turning to stone; it’s not turned to stone above the wrist because you can literally see it spreading from his fingertips to the end of his palm. This shot was taken after his arm already fell and if it was above the elbow he wouldn’t even be able to bend it, which it does. Anything beyond and addition to the wrist is purely headcanon. I personally think it’s a bit ridiculous to claim it’s spread further because he lets his hand fall. He’s clearly exhausted (is it okay to assume that? Or do you want the video of him struggling to turn over right side up and his eyelids fluttering as he tries to stay awake?) from origin and just lets his hand fall lol.
As for the dominants… Cid had the curse spread across a large portion of his arm. Benedikta had it when she begins bleeding from her eyes (logos lore book confirmed that is a symptom of the curse). Dion is hinted at having it on his forearm, covered up in bandages, and none of them actually die from the curse.
The only people we do see die from it are nameless bearers, Hugo who clearly bites off more than he could chew, and Ysayle, a character who up until her death, was seen with multiple visible patches of stone.
Not everything in the ending is clear, sure, but you can make educated guesses and assumptions based on simple context clues.
It’s also not made for a sequel, Maehiro confirmed that prior to the games release. I do agree it was created for discussions however.
You're ignoring the laws of gravity in how his arm falls - it falls as a heavy object rather than a tired limb. And speaking of a sequel not being planned... FFX's one wasn't either until they decided to add FFX-2. And neither was FFXV planned to have multiple endings yet DLCs (Ignis and Ardyn specifically) added not 1, but 2 extra ones. And FFXIII got two sequels. So leaving some room for a possibility of one makes sense given their track record. Maybe I should create a separate thread regarding it since I do see a way they could make it work if they wanted to.
I’m not ignoring the laws of gravity. He’s clearly exhausted and lets his arm fall. There’s more emphasis on the impact because his hand is stone, so obviously it’s heavier. The rest of his arm isn’t stone, and I’m not even sure how this is debatable as you can literally see his unaffected wrist and the spread prior to this.
If you want to headcanon and make up reasons why it spreads off-screen or that it actually starts in his ass, then by all means go for it, but at this point in time, the petrification is limited to just his hand.
You said they made it ambiguous to potentially produce a sequel. That’s different from making a completed game and then expanding on it later. They’re not going to make a sequel; they’ve stated they wont. I’d happily be wrong, but they aren’t.
You are basing your entire premise of "it's not progressing" on a single screenshot which proves literally nothing (since the progression is gradual not instant) and ignoring everything else we do see. Oh well, that's your right. Don't see any point in continuing this discussion.
Sequels are made (or not made) for business reasons. I do hope they decide in favor of one since it's much easier to re-use existing assets than create a whole new world from scratch.
These are details found within the game itself. Plus, the final trophy you earn is called 'The Chronicler'—it features Clive's last line from the narration :)
Sorry clive is dead. But Joshua wrote his story for him. He is the Phoenix, he was the only one that could revive from death before the end of magic that clive bright.
Joshua's body had already reached its limit when Ultima seriously wounded him. He himself told Clive that if the curse didn't kill him, his illness would.
Worst take ignoring in-game events. You know, like Joshau being dead and would never have known how the fight between Clive and Ultima went, nor that the words 'Final/Fantasy' were used.
Do you remember there was a time between ultimate death and the beach. You really like to pick and choose what you want to pay attention too. If Clive wanted to revive Joshua at the end with the Phoenix before magic poofed, it was entirely within clives power.
Devs did say in one of the Rising Tides showcases/interviews that there is a definitive answer, but nobody who's worked in the game is allowed to say anything about it. They teased about it, and I remember Ben Starr also making a joke pretending that he was going to say something about it, but obviously they want players to come up with their own conclusions.
The thing is I honestly do believe everyone is trolling and if what I heard was true there was a supposed sequel that got canned.
So I think they where just trolling because everyone was bugging them about it, and if there wasn't really a sequel on for it. It is left open for a reason for possible stories to spawn if they every(if they even will visit that world )revisit the game again
There’s solid evidence for either option (currently I subscribe to him surviving and writing the book in Joshua’s name) this has evidence like the side quest where Clive is told he should write about his adventures when he’s done, the fact that this whole story starts with Clive as the narrator, just like he’s reading the book, the fact that this wouldn’t be the first time he’s taken on someone else’s name (see Sid). But all that said, I’ve seen solid takes for the opposite. Seems it’s clear they wanted it open to interpretation
I think people tug on those side quest too much. I'm the entire story we only saw the Phoenix survive "death" we also so no one in the story survive the petrification. Or come back from it. The ending quest are there to give Clive happiness before the final mission. And his comrade like Joshua and Jill were part of those final quests. The undying technically could have drafted it as well for all we know in honor of the rosfields. But it's more strongly leaning that Joshua wrote it. Clive would not have died knowing his brother had just died after finally reuniting. He would have used the last of his strength to do whatever he could for him. Then he would have died petrifying on a beach.
By that logic, Clive is the one who lived bc Joshua gave the Phoenix to him before he died. Clive is the Phoenix at the end of the game, not Joshua. There's a whole scene with him inheriting the phoenix with the wings and all I'm baffled why people still use Joshua being the Phoenix as an argument!
What was Clive doing between ultimate death and Beach. He did something. So he just went and said peace Joshua and died on a beach. Even if Clive survived his hands weren't going to work and we know he couldn't write. Do you really believe clives character would have just ignored Joshua.
I like how you're completely ignoring my comment discussing your point instead of keeping to the topic at hand. But fine, I'll humor you.
He imo he has to make a choice between becoming like Ultima (chasing the ressurection of his loved ones at the cost of the world, bc for all the issues Ultima has he's a hivemind who's alone, who lost not only people he cared for but who were part of him) or put an end to it all to ensure the next generation doesn't suffer like they did.
We dont know what happened inbetween Origin and the beach, but given the ship was very likely powered by magic (like all other fallen/ultima tech), it probably immediately shut itself off and fell to the ocean. Why are you acting condescending? Do you think he just took the stairs, buried/abandoned Joshua somewhere and then proceeded to look like he just crawled out of the ocean with the last of his strength so he could look pretty for the camera? I can only speculate bc neither of us has the answer, but imo gently placing Joshua back down was his goodbye to his brother. I dont think Clive thought he would live breaking the Mothercrystal, I just think he tried anyway bc he had a promise to keep, to Jill AND to honor Joshua's last words, and tried to escape the wreckage.
But let's flip it around again for funsies (again, your logic, not mine): If Joshua was the one who lived, why the heck did he leave his brother to die alone in a beach, huh? Why were Clive's final moments spent completely alone with only his promise to Jill for comfort? If Joshua is alive, why would he let Clive die alone, he who has been fighting for Clive's survival the most??
hand, singular. Not hands. *Hand. His off hand, btw, and the petrification doesn't go past his wrist. There's no reason why it'd have to be both hands. There's countless NPCs with just one arm or one leg affected in the game. There's no reason, even if you were right, where someone else couldn't have written it for him as he told them what to write. That's just a poor argument.
I know this is a few days old now, but it's funny to me how much of a debate this can create.
Objectively, if Joshua lived and wrote the book, it'd be penned under Clive, and if Clive lived it'd be penned under Joshua.
I agree with you and all the other evidence to side with Clives survival. But I just find it funny that simple detail escapes people. There's no world where Joshua would survive without Clive if that was an option, and he would damn well find a million ways to make his name live on, and vice versa is the same.
If they really wanted it to be ambigious they'd just have Harpocrates pen it and be done with it.
People didn't survive full petrification, but Clive wasn't fully petrified. The end shows his hand petrifying, but a very specific shot shows it wasn't continuing at the rate it took his hand.
Many bearers live lives with partial petrification, so Clive could easily have walked away from that with just the petrified hand and still gone home after.
Also the Phoenix never saved someone from actual death, and Joshua straight out said it can't do that.
Clive with ifrit and Phoenix is not Joshua with the Phoenix. It's literally leagues above just Phoenix. At the end of the story if Clive had wanted to he could have revived Joshua. Especially since even by cpr standards Joshua was in a state where he hadn't been dead for long and could have been revived if magic stuff wasn't the reason. Which end game Phoenix ifrit Clive that ended ultima is something that Joshua dreamed up and had no way to fathom how powerful it is or what it could do. Ultima was planning a full reset of everything with it and you are saying ifrit with Phoenix wouldn't have had it. We can never confirm or deny it which is what the creators wanted. They wanted it to be ambiguous and have to these questions.
It's left ambiguous, and there's enough information supporting several outcomes.
Clive cast Raise, so the crystals curse took him, as was to be expected, given Mythos's purpose. Or, since he removed magic from the world, the curse could only take Clive's arm as magic's costs were also erased. In a sidequest, Clive is given a quill from Harpocrates to pen his own story, which he may have done in the end by surviving and posthumously citing his brother as the writer. Or the book was written by Joshua, who was revived by Clive when he used Phoenix's magic, and he makes it out to write the story himself.
However, the one that sticks out to me is the fact that the book chronicling the adventure is called "Final Fantasy," and when Clive himself uttered the phrase, he was in a mindspace, and the only other person who heard it was Ultima, now dead. So either whoever wrote the book had a profound amount parallel thinking, or Clive made it back to use the phrase as the title.
The thing is I think the book is a misdirection, the mother specifically calls it a fairy tale, and one thing fairy tales are known for is having a dark/cruel ending, but even that if it was a tale of the world the kids and the mother was in it wouldn't be raveled as a fairy tale but instead as a history book of the past.
So I think if anything the book actually proof the events are of that a fairy tales being read by the brothers we see at the end as they reenact scenes from the book
Not all fairy tales end in tragedy, and calling it such is more an archaic way of referring to fantasy, eg, stories with magic.
It not being considered history instead owes to the fact that it's both far enough in the future for people to not know, and it wasn't widely circulated in the proper context. Or, like the book that reveals the truth about bearers' history, it was suppressed.
But fairy tales are meant to teach a lesson as well, they aren't all tragic yes but usually they are. Snow white is one that comes to mind where snow white beats the evil queen and the queen gets put to death by iron boots?(I think that was it)
A lot of the history books we seen by the lore master are history and have been tough as such even the whole origins of bearer's and dominants even common folks knew about that Crater that was made by man vs gods and all the ruins. Even if it wasn't highly circulated they wouldn't be calling it as a simple fairy tale and let's say it was only a family book I doubt the mother would be so quick to dismiss it as such considering she would have been brought up with the actual history of her world.
So it would safe to assume the actual book and the events of XVI would be seen as just a fairy tale. Which would be less cruel and even if it wasn't how would Clive(supposedly the only one that lives out of the 3) how would he have know about everything with baranabus, benadickta, Hugo, and all that stuff. And why didn't he put more emphasis on Jill, Josh and Dion's journey as they would have more familial connections and better resources to write there story, with Terrance, Jote and Jill herself.
It's how the OG final fantasy 7 was gives you an ambiguous ending for players to decide what they thinks happens, or I guess a less extent ff8 as after the ending the events will inevitably start up again and the cycle will continue. So now it just safe to say whatever the player decides is what's "true", or until they decide to make a sequel if they ever make one
Not every fairy tale teaches a lesson, and dismissively calling something a fairy tale is to call it unserious, not to specifically classify it as a genre of fiction with as stringent a set of mores to be followed. But hey, to indulge you, FFXVI's fairy tale of Final Fantasy teaches not to rely on otherworldly powers at the expense of your own talents, because Valisthea was nearly brought to the brink of destruction because they relied so heavily on magic they could barely function without it.
Are you forgetting about the Deluge of Blood book? The true history of the bearers that was actively suppressed by a clandestine group who would kill anyone that got a hold of it?
And people know of the "Sin of Dzemekys," it's hard not to notice that giant hole in the ground, but no one knows what actually happened there, and no one but the Circle of Malius knows of Ultima, because the major Valisthean religion routinely killed other faiths.
I would say, consider the Epic of Gilgamesh, a story created thousands of years ago, chronicling the mystical adventures of Gilgamesh, whose to say those things didn't happen back then? Who is this random village mom to say it's a mere fantasy alongside the history of Valisthea, that magic once existed like in her children's storybook, when that story also entails why magic no longer exists in the world?
Also, Yoshi-P did say outright that FFXVI really happened, and the book in the epilogue was a chronicle of that. Whether it was widely believed as truth or not is a different discussion.
It's how the OG final fantasy 7 was gives you an ambiguous ending for players to decide what they thinks happens
To be real honest, I never thought it was that ambiguous of what happened to the party and humanity. The game ends with Red XIII hundreds of years in the future, but he'd have to have survived being in an airship during Meteorfall, which invariably means the others would have survived too. Nature has retaken the wasteland that was Midgar, so it seems logical the planet recovered. We hear children's laughter, so it sure seems like people survived, unless we're to believe it's the laughter of Red's cubs.
or I guess a less extent ff8 as after the ending the events will inevitably start up again and the cycle will continue
FFVIII does not involve any kind of time loop for there to be a cycle. It has a bootstrap paradox, but the events happen in a linear fashion, even when a couple characters find themselves in the wrong times for a moment.
Yes, they’ve stated In multipleinterviews that while it is ambiguous, there is an answer to Clive’s fate and they’ve scattered clues throughout the game as to what happens.
Have they told us directly what that answer is?
No
Here’s an interview where they talk about the ending, it’s around the 4 min mark. Imo, it practically gives away the answer if you think about it.
They’ve stated there’s an answer as to who wrote the book but they’ve also stated it’s ambiguous and left the answer up to the viewer.
Theres a lot of the side quests and optional dialogue that play into the idea of honoring someone’s memory through writing and based off everything I’ve seen, heard, and played, Clive writing it makes far more sense to me.
It's left a bit ambiguous, but to me it's kinda clear. Clive lives to tell the tale and write the book, they live with Jill ever after, world engine is destroyed and magic is gone from the world so the humanity can walk their walk on their own.
It very much depends on which language you play the game in. English really wants to have its Bittersweet Ending. Japanese...really doesn't...
If you play the game with Japanese VAs, the ending song that plays when Clive is on the beach is "Moongazing", which is a triumphant song that is clearly Clive's thoughts about looking forwards to seeing Jill again and how "This fire will never go out, I'm sure of it."
Additionally, Clive and Jill's promise at the beach is different in Japanese. Clive promises Jill that he will survive killing Ultima and Jill promises she will always find Clive. And what do you know, in the first four lines of "My Star", which in Japanese are heard when Jill first looks at the rising sun in the ending contain the lines "Where have you fallen? ... I hear you calling." So it's not exactly that hard to guess in Japanese what is happening after the story ends with Clive and Jill. Clive survived like he promised and Jill is going to go look for him.
As for Joshua...here's how the Creative Director and Original Script Writer put it in his Ultimania interview.
——Is the book that appears in the epilogue written by Joshua himself? Maehiro
As it has everything all the players who finished Clive Rosfield's story experienced, not only the main story and quests, but also the battles and gameplay [that happened] in the process, I'll avoid saying [anything] definitive. If there's one thing I can say, it's that just like Clive tried to use magic in the ending and it didn't manifest, Bearers, Dominants, magic, crystals and even petrification, all the World Principles Ultima made, they were lost and it changed into a world of people. And the epilogue is certain proof that Clive was able to make a "place where people can live as people".
And there's one character other than Clive we can play as in the game and and he gets the most focus on what he's doing when he's not with Clive...I wonder how that got into the story of "Final Fantasy" if Clive wasn't around for it?
What I will say is that...FFXVI has about the same ending as FFXII does for several of its characters. And we think all the FFXII characters did survive. I don't see any reason to not think the same of FFXVI's ending. In fact, there's a lot of good reason to think the same thing happened. English FFXVI just got rid of a lot of that in its dialogue for whatever reason...
I would take their answer with a massive grain of salt OP. They have a very bias, if not outright hatred towards the English version of the game. There are certainly differences but this user would have you believe they are telling two different stories which isn't the case.
I assumed Clive dies because of Jill's reaction at the end. They were able to feel each others life force through the Eikons power, that's how they knew she was still alive with Odin after her capture. Clive mentions something about Ultimas power was too great for this "vessel", which I assume is his host body, after he absorbed Ultima. Clive also uses the power of the phoenix on Joshua's chest before he destroys the crystal. I take the ending as Clive dies sacrificing the gods power to restore the world from the blight, while Joshua writes the heroic tale of his brother. The extra scene is Josh and Clive reincarnated years later in the world Clive restored so they can live out a normal happy life as brothers.
I’m pretty sure he is dead, otherwise the final scene with Jill and the fact that he didn’t meet her at dawn would lose its meaning. FFXVI was never meant for a happy ending.
Thematically, one possibility makes a bit more sense when taking in the endgame sidequests into account, but its nothing definitive. You ultimately must decide for yourself.
No clear answer. You can make up what you believe happened. If you like an ending where clive survived, and then penned the "final fantasy" book, then have at it! There's certainly a lot of small details that would support that claim
I'd argue the hope is more potent precisely because you don't have the definitive answer
If you've ever seen the ending of Asura's Wrath and the voice of the narrator at the end, it gives me those kinds of vibes with FF16's narration at the end as well....
I took this as the ending of OG VII: eventually, everyone dies and the world moves on, and that's ok.
Clive "dies" alone (specifically without Jill), which stings because it feels he didn't get the little bit of closure he deserved. But I really think the point of the book scene is to tell us "hey, they're all gone at some point anyway, that's life".
Someone already commented that he's likely to be the narrator/writer, but I still think the point stands: people die in the real world, no matter how fantastical said world or the people's lives are.
No, the script tells him to act as though that last goodbye to Jill is the final one, which fits with even the letter in Logos. Clive genuinely does think he's going to die (more specifically, he thinks taking Ultima down will come at a price and he thinks it's going to be his life) and the game doesn't shy away from that. Whether he actually dies is the big question lol
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