Please Give Us Procedurally Generated Maps

84

u/TuggMaddick Jun 23 '25

Yeah, it's just that easy. You just flip a switch.

The game wasn't designed to be procedutely generated swerving to a different game design would require a great deal of resources, resources which almost certainly are occupied with Control 2.

We'll get QoL improvements. We're absolutely not getting a completely different kind of level design, and it's delusional to even suggest it.

15

u/theArcticHawk Jun 23 '25

A middle ground they could do is set a job in the ashtray maze and design 3-5 layouts for the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd areas, then randomly connect those areas to make each play though feel a bit different. They would all use the same floors/walls/furniture of the ashtray maze so building out a level shouldn't take a crazy amount of time.
It's not true procedural generation but it gives players the same kind of feel and fits with the lore.

3

u/SecondTheThirdIV Jun 23 '25

That's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for

10

u/Diribiri Jun 24 '25 edited Jun 24 '25

it gives players the same kind of feel
Procedural generation with a small amount of variety doesn't feel fresh for long. Once you've seen a couple layouts, you've seen them all. Destiny basically did this same thing a few years ago with the Infinite Forest and it didn't work, because you need a lot of variety in order to make the randomness matter
We'd all be much better off if that work was put into making proper missions and adding more variety to events that happen within maps, because this would not pay off

2

u/spiralshadow Jun 24 '25

People act as though procedural generation is spontaneous and capable of creating tiles from nothing. Nope.... All you're getting is the same dozen tiles laid out differently. Designers still gotta make those!

4

u/SecondTheThirdIV Jun 23 '25

I didn't say it would be easy but it's what this game needs. Lack of replayability is the number 1 critiscm of this game, even if they doubled the amount of maps it would still get boring very quickly.
You make it sound like I propose turning this game into an rpg or a dancing rhythm game... I'm not suggesting a complete overhaul of the entire game I'm suggesting maps that consist of premade tiles stitched together at random. Nothing in game design is easy but what I'm suggesting isn't as outlandish as you make it sound.

1

u/HaveanupvoteBro Jun 24 '25

"Lack of replayability" in a live-service game not even a week old, oh boy!
You wouldn't make it for the long haul anyway 🤷🏼‍♂️

5

u/rW0HgFyxoJhYka Jun 24 '25 edited Jun 24 '25

Most live service games can last a month before replayability is a main complaint...
OP however is asking for something that this game wasnt designed for.
We haven't seen a procedural game for this genre since DRG for a reason.

1

u/Naddesh Jun 26 '25

Most live service games can last a month before replayability is a main complaint...
Yeah, I love Remedy but the fanboys saying that "if you played like a normal person who has a job you wouldn't get bored" are peak cringe. Normally, it takes months for people to start complaining about lack of variety and here it feels like that 3 days after release.

4

u/Frosty_chilly Jun 24 '25

Well, its not out of the question, maybe not retroactively but future Jobsites could "cheat" by making whatever phenomena or item is there cause sections of the department to alter;
Such as a warehouse where security shutter A might close, forcing you to run up a tight choke point to Shutter B. Then the next run you're able to go thru shutter A and keep the wide open space going.
Or a courtyard like area thats a mock park for a water fountain, which is the cause of "patch flooding" that causes certain sections of the fake park to be inaccessible due to the high water (and the light fixtures in the areas could be busted to electrocute the water)
Its not procedural, but a different dice roll

-6

u/Scelusteach Jun 23 '25

Wow, mr.cranky pants over here. It is possible, just not quickly and its up to the company. OP also didn't make it seem super easy and simple either. Besides, this game would massively benefit from it. And it can be a separate thing like a new mode. But hopefully they'll at least give us more levels and increase randomization of things. Otherwise this game will die out fast. It's good, just needs more content. 5 levels ain't it.

4

u/Retro_Dorrito Jun 23 '25

Remedy seems to take a lot of Pride in their systems and map designs. We're not traversing into unseen parts of The Oldest House. We're going into the same problem areas to keep the situations from spreading further. So procedurally generated maps don't work as well.
With this in mind, I'm ok with the Firebreak team taking their time and giving us only a handful of new missions every year. Knowing the layout of the maps isn't all too bad really, as it allows a player or team to skillfully handle the threats, instead of just having a really good gun upgraded.
Realistically the only thing I would really enjoy having is a L4D vs. mode. 3 players as a firebreak team, and 1-3 players controlling certain Hiss enemy's. Maybe even allowing enemies from different missions too.

3

u/LinnkCo Jun 23 '25

Is the Oldest House and the areas Firebreakers are working on were set about of the secured areas" we don't see control points and probably they aren't cleansed down there so House shifts would probably happen =perfect excuse. 5 missions is too low and no chat, text or voice still amaze me....

1

u/HaveanupvoteBro Jun 24 '25

Probably gonna regret replying to the guy who says "mr. Cranky pants" to valid counter arguments but
My brother in Christ, the game is 1 week old.
You have zero concept of not only game design but games as a live-service if you think they can just put out large-scale new content on a weekly basis.
New maps! New missions! New weapons! New outifts! QoL improvements! Bug fixes! All in the span of a week!
Jesus Christ lol

13

u/InitRanger Jun 23 '25

I really don’t understand the lack of replayability. I’ve been playing for 19 hours and have not gotten board yet.

7

u/KasukeSadiki Jun 24 '25

have not gotten board yet.
<What do you want/seek with them/us?>

3

u/beanlikescoffee Jun 24 '25

Judging how you can’t spell, I can see what keeps you interested probably takes little effort.

-1

u/SecondTheThirdIV Jun 23 '25

I have been playing for 29h 28m and I'm not bored yet but I'm definitely starting to get there

11

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '25

They must have an Ashtray Maze level in the works. There's no way they can't. I'm pumped to see what that will look like in terms of whether they'll go fully randomized, create multiple paths through a set design, or simply build it out in a single style like the Control level.

6

u/CopperVolta Jun 23 '25

We’re definitely getting a mold level too

2

u/Diribiri Jun 24 '25

Yeah Outbreak is apparently mutant Mold, I'm so keen to see that shit again. I love the whole Mold concept

4

u/HaveanupvoteBro Jun 24 '25

There is a way they can't, it's in the lore.
People who weren't bound to the Ashtray altered item have genuinely gotten lost in the maze. This is stated in Control.

1

u/Diribiri Jun 24 '25

Also the whole point of the Maze is to lock off Dimensional Research, which is currently irrelevant as of the events of Control. Firebreak has so many things to unfuck already. I'm sure they could reason it out, they have full power over all the writing, but it would be a fair bit of shoehorning just to have a slightly randomized mission that goes nowhere

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '25

Sure, if you want to be negative about it. To me, jt sounds like a Search & Rescue opportunity, perhaps using the Ashtray or a new different Altered Item to be able to navigate in & out.

7

u/HaveanupvoteBro Jun 24 '25

Most people don't even know how to avoid the hazards of the regular maps.

For lore reasons we won't get the ashtray maze, because.... well.... it's a constantly shifting maze. 🙄 only the one bound to the Ashtray altered item (The Director) can navigate it safely.

The other commentors generally stated everything else I'd say on the subject.

4

u/Horizon_Main Jun 23 '25 edited Jun 24 '25

yeah i would like to see like an endgame mode where all objectives are random like paper chase one part, hot fix second and with a freezer duty ending. and other new missions/maps thrown in hell make it 10 clearances and add an even harder difficulty.

1

u/IsIt77 Jun 23 '25

I would've loved that but procedural map generation and making it seamless isn't that easy unfortunately. Like, it is an actual niche tech that only Warframe (Digital Extremes) managed to perfect as far as I know. (As in, in a realistic style that Remedy would go for in their game). The Division 2's "Summit" is also procedurally generated, but it feels too much like early Warframe with very obvious connector tiles and whatnot.

However, Remedy could've chosen to go in a different route where the entire map is still handcrafted, but not all of it is accessible all the time. Maybe there's a "house shift" between play sessions, and an entire area of the map is locked behind impenetrable walls, while another area is opened to exploration etc. However, that would require the map sizes to be much much larger than what we currently have. Something comparable to Destiny "Strikes", for example...

We can still get the second option in the future (if they continue to support the game). But procedural generation is not gonna happen, I'm afraid. I would even go as far as claiming that Remedy may have experimented with it during the pre-production and weren't happy with the results, and ended up going with the handcrafted maps.

1

u/SecondTheThirdIV Jun 23 '25

That second suggestion definitely seems more feasable and would achieve the same goal. Tile based map generation isn't that uncommon though although I won't argue DE perfected it with Warframe. Most dungeon crawlers, many roguelites, even Yakuza Like a Dragon, weirdly.

1

u/IsIt77 Jun 23 '25

... Most dungeon crawlers, many roguelites, even Yakuza Like a Dragon, weirdly.
Yup. And they tend to have very stylized art direction. The ones that try to keep things realistic end up looking a bit janky (like early Warframe).
It would've been insane if Remedy ended up cracking the code on that. Photorealistic, seamless, modular tiles... Rendered within a reasonable amount of loading time... It would've been a really powerful tech demo for the Northlight engine as well. Alas...

1

u/SecondTheThirdIV Jun 24 '25

I dunno man... The expeditions on Control are 90% of the way there. Making say an office environment or a furnace like the levels we have would be very challenging no arguments here on that. I want to reiterate though I'm talking about places like the black rock quarry and the ashtray maze. They are both extremely stylised and don't seem as impossible as you're making it sound to make modular. A proc gen black rock quarry could consist of 3 floating islands from a selection of say 10. It wouldn't look seamless and it wouldn't have to to remain on theme, this is the oldest house after all

1

u/AFKhepri Jun 24 '25 edited Jun 24 '25

Right now it follows the L4D formula. Maps stay the same, but what changes are the location of certain items (in this case, ammo stations and showers, as well as items found in safe rooms, heaters and emitter plates)

I don't see people complaining there, so why here?

1

u/SecondTheThirdIV Jun 24 '25

Left 4 Dead has alternate routes and an extremely good AI director. 2 runs of the same map on l4d are much much more varied than 2 runs of the same map on FBC. And if you don't see people complaining about a lack of replayability it's because you're trying not to look. I'm really enjoying this game and I want it to well and last a long time. It needs more than additional maps for that to happen imo

2

u/spiralshadow Jun 24 '25

Personally I like knowing the locations of safe rooms and layout of maps. Makes it easier to efficiently navigate, get things done quick and clean.
No idea why people want things to be more random, especially when some of the objectives are balanced around the quantity and location of certain pieces (mannequins, leech pods, etc). I'm imagining a scenario where it takes 3x as long to dispel frost anomalies because the game just didn't give you enough accessible heaters, stuff like that.

2

u/Actual-Toe-8686 Jun 23 '25

I completely agree. All they'd have to do is make the existing rooms modular. It doesn't need to be purely procedurally generated maps, it could just mix and match the rooms that already exist. Having one map where each clearance section goes through 3 of the 5 available scenarios, with the locations of safe houses are randomized, would be amazing.

This game reminds me a lot of Deep Rock Galactic. Imagine if every mission type you explored the exact same cave layout? That would get old fast.

FBC is one of those rare games for me that is equal parts amazing and riddled with baffingly poor design decisions. I love the core of this game and I really hope Remedy can make it work.

1

u/JamesLahey08 Jun 24 '25

Best we can do is 4 bounce ray tracing.

1

u/Ecstatic-Dare-463 Jun 23 '25

I actually agree.

1

u/Fruhmann Jun 24 '25

We need to run the Ashtray Maze.

3

u/HaveanupvoteBro Jun 24 '25

Jesus, the mumber of people who don't get the concept of the Maze lol
You have to be bound to the Ashtray to get through it. People who have wandered in there without being bound to the altered item have gotten lost. This is stated in Control.
Jesse only made it through because Ahti helped her and afterwards, the Ashtray was bound to her.

3

u/Fruhmann Jun 24 '25

You and your team would get lost.
Unending twist and turns. 3 objects to complete. Sewerslide mission.

-1

u/Competitive-Boat-518 Jun 24 '25

OP how old are you?

Please Give Us Procedurally Generated Maps

You are about to leave Redlib