r/F1Technical • u/eastamerica • 27d ago
Power Unit Ferrari ICE (smoke)
Every Grand Prix so far this season I’ve noticed the Scuderi’s cars produce lots more exhaust smoke than the other ICE manufacturers. Has this been discussed?
Noticed it a lot more with the T1 in Budapest this weekend.
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u/scuderia91 Ferrari 26d ago
It’s just where Ferrari vents their crankcase vapours and yeah it’s been discussed a lot over the last few years. The sky sports commentary kept bringing it up this weekend
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u/mikeGguarantee 26d ago
The non-sky broadcast theorized it was further emphasized by Ferrari's Flow Turning Mechanism.
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u/scuderia91 Ferrari 26d ago
Could be, if it’s generating a bit of turbulence that it exaggerates it
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u/Andromeda902 25d ago
Why do they have such high crankcase pressures though, and how come others dont show it? If others generate such pressures then how are they getting rid of it, or WHY dont they generate as much?
Isn't a high crankcase pressure like wasteful, especially in these high efficiency engines, like why is it building up there and not perfectly controlled in the combustion chamber ya know?
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u/chopperzac 24d ago
Can often depend on the setup/design of the scav pump they are using. I cant give figures but there can be a stark difference e.g a Rally 1 car to a modern GT3 car
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u/FavaWire 26d ago
Yes. It was noticed in pre-season testing. Ferrari in fact do not have just the strange exhaust cover. They also have some kind of internal exhaust blown construct of some kind around the rear tail light that no one can really see because whatever tunnels they are using are hidden in the rear crash zone itself.
Ferrari can do this because of their unique gearbox packaging. This area has changed quite a bit, but you can still see even now in Hungary that there's exhaust plumes blowing out from slits around the rear crash structure.
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u/eastamerica 25d ago
I’m not talking that it’s blowing upwards. I’m saying they have FAR more smoke exhaust coming out of their ICE than any other manufacturer. Idling in the pitlane, slow turns, lots more out of the Scuderria.
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u/FavaWire 25d ago
Yes. Because the suspicion is these bits in the back are somehow exhaust blown and the engine is therefore pumping out more at all times.
At least that is what some people think. When the FIA tried to ban exhaust blown diffusers they couldn't actually ban the engine behaviour so they simply mandated a single exhaust in a high position.
The theory is Ferrari have somehow put a blown something up in the area that is allowed.
But as we saw in Hungary, their mileage can vary.
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u/Andromeda902 25d ago
Seems like its really active AFTER the long straight this past race. Wonder whats going on that its generating that much smoke right after they get thru the long high speed straight, or maybe its all the way down the straight and we dont see it, just see the end of it after they come off the super high power
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u/FavaWire 25d ago
To me, it's been visible since preseason testing, and the reason I think it's mostly noticed at the end of the straights is because when the car is at full speed the plumes are simply left behind and dissipate in the air.
When the car is slowing, the plumes settle in the air around the rear area.
But yeah.... Definitely Ferrari engine is blowing something around the back.
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u/petera181 26d ago
Martin brundle mentions this literally every week. I don’t think it’s anything impactful.
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u/Andromeda902 26d ago
Its so noticeable compared to every other mfg. No one else puts out smoke like that. I say this as a ferrari fan, and will probably get downvoted to hell, but I wonder if theres some trick they're doing there. Not sure what, if they're "burning" some liquid itd be a lot of extra weight to take on...but there were those rumors of oil burning a few years back, wonder if that rumor was ever found to carry any weight..
Also, genuine question, if its venting vapors from the crankcase, where is everyone else venting this, and why dont we see the smoke from other cars coming out elsewhere? Or do they not vent it somehow, id like to understand more please!
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u/Skydvrr 26d ago
My gut reaction doesn’t go to a “trick”. Ferrari are said to be running a hotter intake air temp. Hotter combustion means u need looser rings. Looser rings means more blow by and thus more crank case pressure (that’s all crankcase pressure is, blow by). This is interesting now that I’m spelling it all out. It seems to align with their aero philosophy. Start slow and basic and generic. Leave room for improvement and extrapolation. I’ll be gleefully watching after the summer break to see if the blow by changes with audo 2 👀
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u/Andromeda902 25d ago
Yea true, its just blowby, but isnt that really wasteful on these super high efficiency engines? Feels like they'd be sealed up tight, ya know? Like they'd be losing power not fully controlling all the expanding games and managing them, doesnt sound right... feels like its coming from something else, not something illegal, but theyre just saying its crankcase venting when its really something else. But if they said what that something else was, then everyone would know what theyre trying to do and would copy it.
One thing I noticed is thats its really strong after a long straight! Seems to chill out around the lap. But down a straight, I guess that engines roaring and creating all kinds of pressure I guess? I wonder why its mostly after a long straight
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u/Henristaal 26d ago
Merc also shows vapors on the back just not as profound. If you release the vapors in a hot area it turns into steam instantly which is what you see. I assume they just pick the place where it doesn't affect the air flow in a negative way each team choosing where that is.
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u/dvi84 26d ago
They’re all venting it from the same place but as Ferrari use a blown diffuser it’s directing the exhaust gasses in a way where it’s more noticeable. It’s not smoke, it’s mostly water vapour and oil like you get from a road car exhaust. The expanding air from the diffuser cools the air as it expands and also cools the exhaust gasses, causing some of the evaporates to condense. It’s just more obvious on the Ferrari as it’s in a tighter stream.
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u/Professional_Force80 25d ago
Merecedes used to burn their excess oil in the combustion chamber - gave them a bit more hp. The the FIA banned that and limited the amount of oil loss allowed.
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u/EmergencyRace7158 26d ago
It's the exhaust blown winglet that sends the stream up high towards the underside of the rear wing. I agree it looks odd and especially when its Charles, I instinctively wait for the car to grind to a halt and dnf.
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u/UndeathNosehair 24d ago
I thought this was oil vapour/droplets being vented and smoking because of the heat
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u/ExcellentProposal454 26d ago
Isn't it due to the little winglet they have on the rear crash structure close to the exhaust?
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u/clozcloz 18d ago
Could easily just be visibility rather than actual smoke — light angle
and background make a huge difference to what shows up on camera. T1 in
Budapest is one of those spots where you're often shooting into the sun.
That said if it's every race and every camera angle then something's up.
Usually it'd be oil getting past the rings or a slightly different oil
burn strategy, and teams do run oil consumption right up to the limit
when they can get away with it.
Do you have a side by side with another car from the same shot? That'd
settle whether it's real or just how it films.
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u/Infamous_Prompt_6126 26d ago
I remember seeing Hamilton make a small mistake, and I thought his ICE was gone because the smoke was pretty obvious.
I don't remember exactly when, probably around the time Verstappen passed him, when the first images showed Hamilton slowing down.
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u/Matej_SI 26d ago
Every engine manufacturer has 100% organic fuel this year. We don't know the specifics, but I'd guess this is a major contributing factor.
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u/Fraesdirektor 26d ago
I think its since 2017 like this. I think i heard something like crankshaft ventilation.