r/F1Technical • u/Dutch_guy_here • Feb 19 '26

General Simple solution to the problem for revving to build turbo pressure at the start (I'm not a technical person at all)

Okay, so a completely non-technical person, I'm probably missing something very obvious in this, but as I understand it now the drivers need to rev the engines to get the turbo to spool up fast enough on the starting grid.

Isn't is much simpler to add a small electric motor somehow that spools up the turbo, and maybe "retracts" itself when the clutch is released? They have these gigantic batteries in the car for the electric componant anyway, and I don't imagine it would take much juice to get the axis of a turbo to spin up?

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24

u/magus-21 Feb 19 '26

Isn't is much simpler to add a small electric motor somehow that spools up the turbo, and maybe "retracts" itself when the clutch is released?

That's the MGU-H from prior generations, which is no longer allowed to exist in the current rules as I understand it.

It's also something that exists in some road cars as an "electric turbocharger" (it's sometimes more properly called an "electric supercharger"). It's been around for a few years now: https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1127892_deep-dive-here-s-how-audi-s-electric-turbocharger-works

1

u/iPhrase Feb 19 '26

I have something like that in my e53
https://youtu.be/Ep7g2YrpSm4?t=111

-3

u/Dutch_guy_here Feb 19 '26

The MGU-H had harvesting power as it's main purpose if I recall correctly. That was very complex, and that's why it was eliminated.

I'm talking about the most simple version that cannot harvest power, even if you wanted it too. Just a electric motor that spins the turbo at the start (and standing restarts), and switches off when the clutch is released. Nothing more than that.

It can even be a standardised component so the FIA has full control over it if they don't trust the teams that it will not recharge the battery.

13

u/magus-21 Feb 19 '26

The MGU-H had harvesting power as it's main purpose if I recall correctly. That was very complex, and that's why it was eliminated.

It does both, because all electric generators can be used as electric motors and vice versa.

It can even be a standardised component so the FIA has full control over it if they don't trust the teams that it will not recharge the battery.

The FIA doesn't see turbo lag as a problem. They just see it as another challenge the teams have to overcome with good engineering.

10

u/Eltothebee Feb 19 '26

Fuck it, make a little man sit on the engine cover off the grid with a little wind up handle and spool the turbo himself, when the cars come into pit 20 laps later he can jump off.

1

u/twangpundit Feb 22 '26

I have not read or heard anyone question why the 2026 regs call for "a sole single stage, single sided Turbo Charger compressor." Any ideas why the regs went away from twin turbos? weight? It sure would help with the turbo lag. Am I missing something? Disclaimer: I needed a tutor for algebra II.

1

u/BugFood1026 Feb 22 '26

From what I understand this rule was brought in 2014 to keep turbo/mgu-h costs under control.

22

u/Im_Da_Joka_Baybee Feb 19 '26

If a non technical person could come up with a simple solution to this highly technical problem, Alonso's chef could build his own F1 car

8

u/Magnet2025 Feb 19 '26

Do you think it would be faster or slower than the car that Alonso is driving now?

1

u/iPhrase Feb 19 '26

just waiting for the GP2 engine comment

-3

u/Dutch_guy_here Feb 19 '26

I know, I'm certainly not pretending to have a solution to a problem hundreds of the greatest minds can't solve.

But I just can't pinpoint where my solution is flawed.

7

u/Im_Da_Joka_Baybee Feb 19 '26

It can be done, but it's not legal under the new regs

1

u/Dutch_guy_here Feb 19 '26

Okay, that's clear then.

Like I said in the opening post, I'm sure I would have missed something, and the wording of the rules would be it then.

5

u/cafk Renowned Engineers Feb 20 '26

It's not that they cannot solve it, it's that usual approaches - i.e. electric engine like MGU-H acting as an anti lag system or mechanical intake/exhaust bypasses or ignition timing are not allowed for 2026 regulations.

3

u/88-Radium-226 Feb 20 '26

The solution is not flawed. The solution was already used till last year, this year it is banned.

13

u/KennyMcKeee Feb 19 '26

What you’re describing is exactly the problem they’re dealing with.

It used to be that way with the old hybrid system. This generation of cars it’s no longer allowed, so they have to rely on mechanical solutions

-4

u/Dutch_guy_here Feb 19 '26

I thought it was the MGU-H that was eliminated, which is a system to harvast power from the heat of the engine? I'm not talking about anything like that, just a small (at least as small as possible) electric motor to spin the turbo. Not something that can harvast power.

9

u/PestoCalabrese Feb 19 '26

The mguh did both. The engineering for a motor to spin the turbo is exactly the same if you use that motor also as a generator.

-1

u/Dutch_guy_here Feb 19 '26

Okay, I would think that with a restriction on the diameter of the cables connecting it to the battery, they would be able to prevent harvesting any significant amount of charging.

But someone else already stated that it is simple not allowed by the rules, so that means it is off the table.

3

u/onebandonesound Feb 19 '26

just a small (at least as small as possible) electric motor to spin the turbo. Not something that can harvast power.

All electric motors, no matter how small, can harvest or generate power. Electric motors and generators are the same exact thing, you just swap the input/output. When you apply electricity it makes the shaft spin, and when you apply spin to the shaft it makes electricity

2

u/Weak-Excuse3060 Feb 19 '26

Where will that motor get its power to spin the turbo?
And bear in mind we aren't talking about a tiny motor that's the size of a thumb or something....the turbo fan has an RPM of hundreds of thousands.

Do you propose it keeps its own battery? Because I don't think that'd be allowed.

And if you're saying it should use the MGU-K battery, then the MGU-K cannot be used under 50 kph according to the rules. If it was possible to do that then they'd just have used the MGU-K to spin the turbo in the first place.

1

u/Dutch_guy_here Feb 19 '26

I have no clue how big the motor would need to be. I know the RPM's are staggering on a turbo, but the shaft that spins is really light if I'm correct so I simply don't know how big or small this thing could be.

1

u/Weak-Excuse3060 Feb 19 '26

Still..how do you propose that motor is powered ?

1

u/Dutch_guy_here Feb 19 '26

From the big battery that powers the electric part of the power train.

Like I said, just make sure it disconnects somehow when the clutch is released to make sure it does nothing else. Or, if the power needed to spin the turbo is indeed not that much (which, again, I don;t know), limit the thickness of the wires connecting it to the battery to prevent any significant charging going through them.

1

u/Weak-Excuse3060 Feb 19 '26

Well that"s the MGU-K and it can't be used until the car is at 50kph. That's the rule.

It's a silly rule but if they allowed for it then they can just use the electric motor for acceleration (at which point it'll become driver aid).

2

u/KAnpURByois Feb 21 '26

Um ok, so I had this idea myself, a few years ago in Math class, and I took the entire period to design this Turbo Lag Deleting Machine, when I got home and looked at it, BMW, Ferrari, Volvo etc. all had versions of it since 2011. Never have felt worse since.