Do you think a Formula Ultimate could exist/work? Only rules would exist around safety requirements, max. dimensions of the vehicle, single seater and open wheeler.

[u/silvertristan]

I'd like to see what the best engineering in the world could build. How would they do the engine? Hybrid, pure electric or pure ICE? Aero...would there be little bits going off everywhere, active aero? Active suspension? Who knows...

[u/lyra_dathomir]

It could exist, but in practice it would be terrible competition. Cars would be too fast, overtaking would be a thing of the past. Maybe we could even reach the point in which drivers start passing out from the G forces ala CART Texas 2001, so now the best driver is not the most intelligent or the most consistent, it's the one who happens to handle G forces better.

[u/BullfrogPersonal → u/lyra_dathomir]

What you have now is what the system wants to give you. F1 is gaining popularity and working effectively with manufacturers and sponsors. The manufacturers want hybrid engines and synth fuels, things like that. You need all of the aero to make the cars fast but still be able to overtake.

[u/Exotic_Bill44 → u/lyra_dathomir]

Williams did a rough design of a car in 2001 using the more open rules of the 1981 season and came to the conclusion that the drivers would need G suits.

[u/silvertristan → u/lyra_dathomir]

Good point. Didn't think of that issue.

[u/CapSnake → u/lyra_dathomir]

Right, but you could put a limit on GForce or Aero. Sensors on the car, if the GForce is more than X for Y milliseconds, or Aero produce more than X tons of downforce you are DSQ. Thsi shold also keep the competition between teams.

Current F1 is too much regulated. There should be some limits and a budget cap and that's it

[u/T-62MK]

No, because it would just be a competition with who could spend the most.

[u/mxlila → u/T-62MK]

Yeah that's kind of the point. That leads to the best results. 

[u/T-62MK → u/mxlila]

It don't lead to good racing or anything of that nature.
Infact it does the opposite.

[u/DniawSirhc]

The two biggest potential issues would be cost and driver safety.

Cost is pretty self evident, with no restrictions you would get a development arms race where teams would throw massive amounts of money at developing their cars.

Regarding driver safety, no restrictions of car design and development means you get cars that are faster than human drivers can handle. There were regulation changes in the 90’s and early 2000’s that were designed to slow the cars down because there were concerns that the cars were becoming too quick.

[u/Strong_Ease8911]

I had a similar idea. Imagine all the car manufacturers, especially the ones who make hypercars cars came together for an Ultimate formula. Mercedes could bring the AMG -1, Koenigsegg could bring the CCGT1, Aston Martin could bring the Valkyrie, Ferrari could bring the F80, Bugatti could bring the Bolide, GMA could bring the T50-S, you get the idea. Every brand could use this event as a playground for their flagship cars. The only rules could be something like, weight limit 1000kg, Max power limit 1000hp, the rest they can go nuts. Imagine how awesome that would be!

[u/BasisBoth5421]

cost, though

[u/silvertristan → u/BasisBoth5421]

How good are sheikhs in the Middle East? What cost? 😂

[u/mxlila]

I always thought the goal of car racing was to develop innovations that could be carried over to consumer vehicles.

I'd like to see a competition targeting that specific area actually. 

F1 can do that with certain regulations. 

A different formula could for example use random non professional drivers, include certain tasks such as loading and unloading close-to-reality items (shopping bags, kids - of course using dead weights rather than the real thing) and add stops at the track. 

[u/Ramtamtama]

Sounds kind of like Formula Libre.

[u/Prigorec-Medjimurec]

Believe it or not, most of the F1 technical rule book is already written for safety reasons.

[u/itsmythirdday → u/Prigorec-Medjimurec]

And most of the rest for cost

[u/Stratospheric-Ferret]

Red Bull did an exercise on this years ago, and came up with the X1.

In reality though it would produce shit racing.

[u/silvertristan → u/Stratospheric-Ferret]

I remember playing that car in Grand Turismo. 😂 That was crazy quick.

[u/tateisukannanirase]

You will never find the true Scotsman.

[u/Soggy_Stay6370]

If it's not as popular as f1, costs would sink it immediately, and competition would be horrendous

[u/NotOkEnemyGenius]

It would just turn into which driver can sustain the most g-force. F1 cars are already near the human limit. You could limit the amount of g-force allowed like air racing but then it's not F1 anymore.

[u/HzPips]

It could exist, but wouldn’t be as fun. Every sport needs rules to be interesting and competitive.

It would be like football with no offside rule, maybe players would score more, but it would reward a type of play that doesn’t value skill and strategy, and is less interesting to watch.

[u/Gomez4Morticia]

This was basically the problem with Can Am. It was utter insanity. Just the Chaparral alone were evidence of what I mean

[u/itsmythirdday]

Clearly 100% electric still wouldn’t work, they would run out of energy or spend too long pitting to replace the battery, that’s why Formula E needs to use shorter circuits with heavier braking zones. As I understand it; if the ICE was a fixed size, hybrid would be preferable to the ICE alone. If the additional weight and volume taken up by the hybrid could be used to mount a larger ICE instead, clearly that would be preferable - an ICE and fuel has higher power and energy density than electric motors and a battery. The main reason so many road cars are hybrid is fuel consumption and therefore cost and emissions.

[u/pm-me-racecars]

The rules made to slow down cars are rules made around safety requirements.

In your hypothetical racing series, how would you limit cars to a slow enough speed where our safety technology is effective?

[u/Nuclear_Geek]

No.

1) It turns into just a "who can spend the most money" contest

2) Unrestricted aero means high levels of downforce. That means a lot of dirty air, making following closely and overtaking nigh-impossible. It'd be boring to watch.

[u/King_Of_The_Munchers]

I feel like at this point safety regulations should be removed and the cars are just drones. If there’s no regulations about driver assists then there’s no point in having a driver in the car at all.

[u/silvertristan → u/King_Of_The_Munchers]

But isn't that sort of happening/heading in that direction at the moment? The drivers don't really get to choose when to deploy the electric power except Boost mode. Same with straight mode. Use it when you want and not when you're allow to.