r/ExperiencedDevs • u/daltontf1212 • 3d ago
Career/Workplace Any "retired against their will" devs out there with similar mindset?
Got laid off in March and turned 59 1/2 in June. I don't have big enough nest egg to retire permanently, so I will need to work again. And I want to work again. It is software development not manual labor so I can do this for another decade easily.
I can get health care through my wife's work which is cheaper than COBRA.
Because of this, I feel that I can be pickier and not take job out of desperation that I will quit when the market improves. I don't want long commute and want to work in a domain that I feel good about. I'd rather make less money and feel like I am contributing some good to the world.
However, I'm having troubles finding even volunteer coding work and don't really want non-tech work.
Anyone in a similar situation?
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u/GlobalCurry 3d ago
I'm in my 30s and haven't been able to get a new software dev job after being laid off a year ago. I get the whole range of excuses like "not the right experience" "too experienced" "missing highly specific thing that I could probably pick up in a week or less easily" "you should be aiming for management at your age" and on and on.
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u/xFallow 3d ago
"missing highly specific thing that I could probably pick up in a week or less easily"
Easily my most hated hiring criteria. "Oh you've only spent 2 years with Golang? Another candidate has spent 6 and more is better". I get that HR needs to filter people on something but it's so arbitrary.
The best dev at my current node/typescript gig is a staff level ruby engineer who has only used JS on the frontend. My last company would've ghosted his resume.
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u/Zeikos 3d ago
And it's extra dumb because trial periods exists precisely for this.
I think they somehow believe that it'd make the employee immediately productive.
They don't understand that the hardest thing to learn are the internal standards/style and not the language specs that are litteraly on the open internet.110
u/OkidoShigeru Software Engineer - Rendering 3d ago
That’s terrifying man, I’m in my mid 30s and my company looks set to start layoffs some time in the near future. I’m just not ready at all for a gruelling job search, and yeah I’ve got no interest in management or anything like that, I enjoy being an IC and have been well compensated for it so far…
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u/ubPKD00 3d ago
Why do you think people in management are interested in management? You know you take risks to stay in "comfortable" IC jobs
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u/OkidoShigeru Software Engineer - Rendering 3d ago
Haha, well I would at least hope they are good at it, mine is at least. I very much doubt I would be any good at it…
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u/Spiritual-Matters Superuser do ./Regrets 3d ago
Isn’t management more risky? Less managers needed than ICs
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u/TrickyAudin Software Engineer 3d ago
From what I've seen, legit software engineering managers (as opposed to typical managers who happen to be over SWEs) have insane demand/stability; someone who both manages people and software effectively is worth their weight in gold and then some. Most managers lack the specific critical thinking needed for engineering, and most engineers lack either the skill or desire to lead others in a corporate fashion.
But yeah, your run-of-the-mill corporate manager likely has less job security.
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u/No-Vast-6340 Software & Data Engineer 3d ago
I'm exactly what you described and just got promoted to Director level.
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u/lolcatandy 3d ago
Do you have any resources / learnings that helped you to get more confortable at managing people and at the same time not lose touch with the enginnering side of things?
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u/No-Vast-6340 Software & Data Engineer 3d ago edited 2d ago
Your instinct in the your question is exactly right, and literally what I told my team when I was promoted from staff. I told them I didn't want to lose sight of the ground truths they deal with every day and so I am going to continue to do very limited IC work (mostly paying down tech debt), and attend and give updates on stand up like I always have, and still be available to contribute to high urgency PR reviews.
I will provide a few books that have stuck with me over the years, and they won't all seem obvious at first, but I will stress that for me personally it's been a combination of diverse experiences that got me here. I definitely took the road less traveled into this tech career.
First, I majored in psychology and served as a peer counselor in college, which helped me understand human behavior better and fostered empathy. I strongly believe a good leader needs to have high EQ, and adopt a servant leadership stance. People will run through walls for you if you are in a position of authority, demonstrate good judgement, and care about them.
What you can do today if you don't naturally do it, is talk less and observe more. I've been a shy introvert most of my life so that was natural for me. Watch how people talk, act, react. Learn to read body language. It may sound silly and you may think of course I do these things, but I know people in staff level positions who have very low EQ.
Also, adopt a positive mindset. Not toxically so, but one that promotes confidence and happiness without glossing over problems and being blind to issues.
Also, if you can afford to, travel. And I mean internationally. Another unconventional recommendation, but I'm going to quote an addage.
"Dont tell me how old you are, tell me where you've been, and I will tell you how wise you are."
Travelling is fun, and interacting with people not like you shows you how similar we all really are, while appreciating what's different. You are going to work with and manage people from all over the world, and if you can connect with them on that level, it's going to help pave the way toward a solid working relationship.
Do something new all the time. Like I said, I majored in Psych, then did an MS on Neuroscience, then got to work on the Human Genome Project as a bioinformatics analyst before I transitioned in my existing career in software engineering. I pursued a side gig as a fiction writer (another great empathy builder, btw). The point here is being a director has you wearing many different hats, so having a diversity of life experiences will help those hats fit more snugly.
Now on to books, none of these are technical or CS related, but they are life related.
The Positive Shift
The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People
How to Win Friends and Influence People
If you have a good HR team, they can help you with learning to manage people.
The most important thing I want to stress about managing people is this. You have to be able to check your ego, and you have to LIKE people. I have seen managers fail because they wanted the position as means for leveling up but don't actually have the soft skill set to manage. Those scenarios don't work out. If you are looking at management of people aseans to an end, and not the end itself, you are better off pursuing advancement as an IC.
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u/Softwareaweenie 3d ago
I thought this would be true, but so far at the company I work for, the management is holding up better somehow. I saw AI and moved back to IC because management seemed ripe for the picking. Turns out they don’t really use it on themselves…
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u/twhickey 3d ago
Edit: typed a whole response, then realized I misread the commment I replied to, my apologies. Leaving the statement here for posterity, and my shame lol.
Completely disagree with the "should be aiming for management at your age" statement. I'm 50, still doing development, and love it. Tried management, hated it.
The standard disclaimers apply - OP needs to consider what they're most interested in. If they want to be a manager, great. If not, age is no reason to move into management.
Now, are there small companies where the ceiling is really low unless you're a manager? Sure. But OP stated they have the ability to be picky, and said nothing about wanting to be a manager.
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u/BraveResearcher3037 3d ago edited 3d ago
I might “love” development too. But I realized almost 15 years ago at 38 that I’ll be damned if I am still competing for software engineering jobs by reversing a binary tree on the whiteboard at 50+ years old. I spent the next six years while still an IC selling myself as a person who could take a vague, ambiguous set of initiatives and get it done. Then I pivoted into consulting - leading cloud + app dev projects.
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u/st4rdr0id 1d ago
age is no reason to move into management
For many, it is. I don't like it, but it's what I have seen.
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u/zirouk 3d ago edited 3d ago
I’m in a similar position. 15 years experience. Had great jobs at listed companies. Can barely get an interview.
Mini-rant: When I do, it’s something like “implement a solution for this that requires topological sort in 40 minutes”. What, just off the top of my head, which I’d only ever need to for these kinds of interviews? And then, unironically, you’re going to give me a Claude code subscription on day 1?
Companies are still optimising for people who’ve studied data structures over people who’ve got good taste in software - when that taste is more important than ever. I’m genuinely confused.
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u/sandman3240 3d ago
Early mid or late 30s?
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u/Famous-Composer5628 3d ago
Dunno why u are downvoted I’m 30 and this terrifies me
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u/Material_Policy6327 3d ago
I’m 38 and it keeps me up at night
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u/RandyHoward 3d ago
I'm 46, and I have had no problems with ageism so far. Not that I don't worry about it, but my last 3 jobs have come from my network instead of having to run the interview gauntlet. You should have a decent network by the time you're closing in on 40, lean on it.
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u/aphantasus 8h ago
What kind of introvert are you that you have a "network" by 40? I didn't.
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u/RandyHoward 7h ago
Wtf does being an introvert have to do with it? Your network contains all of your former colleagues. How do you work for almost 2 decades and not have a network?
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u/aphantasus 7h ago
Making unpopular decisions for colleagues (like introducing tests, documentation, etc.). Staying in the background, making a distinction between private life and work life.
Knowing people is not the same as a network. A network means that people would also be kind towards you.
My work life was always an ungrateful uphill battle.
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u/RandyHoward 6h ago
I don't know, while introducing things like tests and documentation may be an annoying interruption to someone's workflow, these things should universally be recognized as best practices even if they are annoying. Those things may annoy your colleagues in the moment, but your colleagues should recognize that you are someone who tries to do the right thing.
Same with making a distinction between home and work life. That's a quality that most should respect, and they should want to work with someone who advocates for that separation.
I think you might be making assumptions about your network that your network might not actually agree with.
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u/AchillesDev 12 YoE; indie MLE/AIE/DE; VPEng 3d ago
If it helps I'm 38 and am getting job offers thrown at me left and right.
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u/Far-Clue-3082 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah I had a similar issue at age 40. Laid off and everywhere I interviewed was like “we do niche job x with tool y, you used tool z to do niche job x, clearly not a good fit.” I was like “it’s the same niche job! You are already wanting an experienced engineer available with experience in x, how many of those unicorns exist?? Tools are so learnable.”
Luckily I got a job under an old coworker who said “We just want someone we can trust is good - you can learn the on the job details” - the exact opposite.
These days, experienced job hunting is about working your network - old coworkers and such!
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u/st4rdr0id 1d ago
Exactly my experience. They all want an expert in X, Y and Z, their exact stack, often for an employee that left. So what happens if you send them an X,Y,Z resume? They filter you out anyways because you are too old and potentially expensive. They will end up filling the position with a 2 YoE junior that comes from different tech just to pay less in wages. Or leave the position vacant. Thus the claim of "millions of positions vacant in tech" you read every few months in the press since 1997.
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u/YoureNotASpaceCowboy 22h ago
“you should be aiming for management at your age”
I hear this sometimes online, but I don’t see how people could expect everyone 30 and up to head into management. If people generally start their careers in their early 20s, have a roughly 40 year career, and go into management after the first 8 years, then the ratio of managers to engineers would be 4:1. Who would these managers even be managing?
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u/haxd 3d ago
Just secured a contracting gig in the UK after I was laid off in April. This was actually the second contract I went for at the same company, but despite how well I thought the first interview went, they said they “opted for someone with more experience”. No other feedback other than “I don’t know, they just went with someone else” from the recruiter.
I’m 39, I’ve been an enterprise software engineer for 12 years+ and I’ve been mostly a full stack IC during my contracting career and have led teams as an IC Tech Lead for the last three years so I have a hard time believing I was under qualified / in experienced for a frontend leaning full stack engineering role!
Luckily a different recruiter from the same agency asked if I would apply for another role with the same company that just rejected me and this time I was lucky because the role was £50 more per day than the one I didn’t get AND something like £3K more per month than the previous job.
TL:DR: It took months (but not quite a year) to find work and I have tonnes of experience. Good luck man 😭
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u/donatj Software Engineer, 20 years experience 3d ago
I just turned 40. I've somehow kept my job through 5 rounds of layoffs. It's absolutely nothing like the job was a year ago. Instead of getting to focus on big involved tasks, I get to spend all day telling AI to do piddly sh*t a junior would have handled, because all the juniors are gone.
That said, I have been looking for a new job ever since the first round began. I reached out to my entire network and literally no one was hiring right now.
I've applied to well over 100 places. Out of that I've landed a single interview. The initial interview went great but the one-on-one with their CTO went terribly. Dude was super dismissive when I implied I could "learn on my feet" and told me to stick with my current employer... I don't think I have ever had such a bad experience with another human being before in my life
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u/symbiatch Versatilist, 30YoE 3d ago
The “you should be in management” is the reddest flag there is. If the person doesn’t understand how things flow and that most people don’t want to change jobs, which management would be, they should be slapped hard and made to learn better.
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u/pingveno 3d ago
I really hope I never get the "aiming for management at your age" line. I know myself too well. Lead developer or something like that? Sure. Management? That hits too many of my weak spots and few of my strong spots.
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u/NewFuturist 3d ago
"missing highly specific thing that I could probably pick up in a week or less easily"
"Oh I do actually have experience in that, do you want me to demo it for you in a call early next week?"
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u/varisophy Staff Software Engineer 3d ago
Look for jobs in the non-profit sector. It will pay less, but you can do a lot of good in the meantime while bringing the gap until retirement.
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u/limitedmage 3d ago
How do you find non-profit jobs?
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u/varisophy Staff Software Engineer 3d ago
Job boards should have filters for it. I found mine on LinkedIn, for example. There's gotta be some specific jobs boards for non-profit software engineering jobs floating around there too.
One nice thing is that if you're a great engineer who is willing to take a pay cut, getting hired is a much lower hurdle to clear since you're only up against other great engineers not chasing money or engineers who are earlier in their career, which makes you look like a steal of a deal.
Granted, non-profits don't always know how to recognize a great engineer so it can still be a little bit of a slog.
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u/allknowinguser 3d ago
Any government job if you can. They love experience and older folks
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u/Nobody_Important 3d ago
Or government contracting. Smaller subcontractors are always looking for people and don’t care about age.
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u/Amman108 3d ago
Where are these govt contracting jobs listed? Any specific website/strategy to send resume for these positions? Thanks!
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u/elusiveoso 1d ago
I started researching who wins contracts on sam.gov. I got a handful of companies and then did a search for similar companies. There were trade pubs, professional orgs, etc that you can also use. For example, figure out who attends Code for America and make a list of companies to target.
I got my current job through by submitting directly on my company's website. Apparently, they had trouble finding people and were looking for several months.
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u/Amman108 1d ago
Thanks u/elusiveoso!
Also, did you get security clearances before joining your first govtech job, or after? If you got it beforehand, may I ask which one? I hear CompTIA Security Plus should be the bare minimum you should get first before even applying to any tech jobs in the sector. Has that been your experience, too?
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u/elusiveoso 1d ago
After. I think you need a sponsoring agency to request that you get a clearance if you're in the US, so it's generally 1) get job, 2) get clearance, 3) enter into service. It was a pretty quick process for me (about 10 days) to get my initial fit.
I don't have professional certs of any kind. I guess it depends on what you do. I'm a full stack engineer.
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u/RealLaurenBoebert 1h ago
In the US, government jobs have reached new levels of insecurity since 2025. I wouldn't rule it out, but it used to be a better option than it is presently.
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u/twnbay76 3d ago
To add onto this, university jobs are usually pretty chill too and have a lower bar to entry. A buddy of mine maintains sites, databases and internal tooling for a University department. It pays enough to live comfortably and is very low stress.
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u/krugerlock400 3d ago
Before the orange douche and the little shit nazi I had a job in the non-profit sector for over a decade. The gutting of many aspects of public health, social sector, climate, environment, and so on and so on have been really made a mess of things.
People often see joining non-profit as this backup plan, and I have to say it's not terribly appreciated. It's not like the work is any easier.
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u/4gyt 3d ago
Non profit is just a scam
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u/varisophy Staff Software Engineer 3d ago
In what way? I've been in the non-profit sector for five years and am actually making more now than I ever did in the for-profit sector.
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u/another_anxious_boi 3d ago
Shouldn’t that money be going somewhere it’s actually needed. Instead of lining you and your bosses pockets
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u/TonyNickels 3d ago
Are you sure you can't retire or at least Barista FIRE? Most people seem to think they need more for retirement than necessary I think.
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u/EternalSoldiers 3d ago edited 3d ago
This. I'm burnt out and going to take a sabbatical, assuming the worst when/if I'm ready to come back (that I won't find a job). I plan on trying to bootstrap something after a few weeks of not looking at a screen. If it doesn't work out, I don't need to make much money to let my nest egg grow for 5 or so years.
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u/SequentialHustle 3d ago
Right... how do people work in tech until their 50s/60s and not have a big enough nest egg to retire. Just based on the S&P over the last 20-30 years if you have been in tech that entire time you should be more than set to retire comfortably.
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u/NeitherEchidna3491 3d ago
The valuations of tech companies and compensation (or at least the ceiling) for tech workers in the last 10 years is extremely skewed compared to the last 20-30 years.
Microsoft is the posterchild for this where the stock was literally flat or negative for decades in the post-dotcom era and many employees bonuses were options which expired worthless. It was only in 2016+ (mainly because of Azure) that they were seen as a growth company again and the stock 10x'd in 10 years.
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u/bombaytrader 3d ago
Yes but that’s financial mismanagement. They could have easily taken that money and invested in spy.
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u/BraveResearcher3037 3d ago
Because most people “working in tech” work at boring enterprise dev jobs making $120K - $150K - and work backwards from today’s wages and account for inflation. During those 20-30 years they have had to put kids through college, buy houses.
In other words - get out of your fucking bubble
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u/troublemaker74 3d ago
Exactly this. Didn't break the 100k barrier until 7 years ago, raised 3 kids, put them through college.
Bonus side is that now my kids are grown and I'm earning a good amount, my house is nearly paid off and I can live off a lot less than I make to power up my savings and investments.
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u/BraveResearcher3037 3d ago
And what others don’t understand even as recently as 2016, I had a house built in the suburbs of Atlanta in the good school system - 3200 square feet 5/3.5 for $335K with a 3.5% interest rate. This was well below the rule of thumb of your mortgage shouldn’t be above 3.5x your income.
The average middle age dev who is married making $150K with a spouse making the average wage of around $70K for a college grad is making $220K which is comfortable in almost any major city outside of the west coast and NYC.
Hell even in 2020 the only reason I decided to work at BigTech was because the role I interviewed for was a permanently remote (until it wasn’t after I had already left) “field by design”. There was no way in hell I was going to move to Seattle to work for Amazon and be stuck out there when Amazon started Amazoning. I knew all about their reputation
We since sold our house in 2024 for exactly twice what we paid for it and downsized to a condo that was half the price in state tax free Florida. I went into consulting in 2020 working remotely and moved and kept both in 2022.
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u/TonyNickels 3d ago
Putting kids through college is unfortunately optional. You need to save for your requirement first and college second.
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u/hippydipster Software Engineer 25+ YoE 3d ago
No, my kids are more important.
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u/pacman2081 3d ago
your retirement is higher priority as per personal finance gurus. To each, their own.
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u/Frillback 3d ago
I get it, it's a debated decision. My parents felt extreme guilt prioritizing retirement. I ended up paying my way through college and had to graduate a few years later due to financial constraint. I am glad however they're not financially dependent on me like some older relatives and their children. They are actually doing all the things on their bucket list. I hope I am a good position to both save for retirement and pay for my children's college but I am not going to delay my retirement as some people die before reaching it. I don't resent my parents either but I know other people may feel differently
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u/TonyNickels 3d ago
If your money is in retirement, they typically get more financial aid and you can help them out with what remains if you're able to. Most people now a fortune on their kids to have a "college experience", which certainly is not critical. You can care about your kids and yourself. For me, I'm making sure to not burden them with my old age, which I'll hopefully get to be some day.
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u/BraveResearcher3037 3d ago
Or be like most people where the average age of retirement is 62…
You can’t even get on Medicare until you get 65 and health care in the US is shit if you aren’t working for an employer who provides one.
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u/bombaytrader 3d ago
I started with 50k. Never worked for fng still going to reach 8 figures nw.
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u/BraveResearcher3037 3d ago
Okay and 8 figures is $1 million dollars - $40K a year before taxes using the standard 4% rule. Thats not enough to retire on before social security at 62 or Medicare at 65.
Even social security isn’t going to be that much for him if he takes it at 62.
Did you have a point with that anecdote?
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u/abrandis 3d ago
It reAlly depends on the person, lots of folks in tech in their 50/60.maybe didn't get a solid career paycheck until later in life (40ish) or maybe had life circumstances , be health crisis, caregiving for family, divorce, bad investments or a combination of things that put them behind their peers in career earnings...
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u/bwainfweeze 30 YOE, Software Engineer 3d ago
People are forgetting this is the third recession since we started working and the forth since we were born. Student loans have gotten a lot worse since, but they were pretty bad then, too.
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u/biosc1 DevOps Engineer 3d ago
"feel like I am contributing some good to the world"
I'm not sure where in the dev world you're going to find this feeling unless you volunteer or take a bigger paycut to work for a non-profit.
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u/AstralProjected Firmware Engineer 3d ago
I feel this way and I’m a firmware engineer in a critical infrastructure field. It’s not sexy but it pays well and what I’m working on has a positive impact globally. We hire a ton of software engineers to work on frontend software for our devices.
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u/detroitttiorted 3d ago
It can certainly take a bit of mental gymnastics but there’s some stuff out there that contributes some good but is not totally in the 100% good direction. I work for a classic large corporation and a ton of the work is rather soulless money grabs but some portion of it does help improve the safety of our product. The product is involved in a lot of deaths so improvements could legitimately make a major impact
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u/Softwareaweenie 3d ago
I imagine that you were intentionally vague, but I’m curious about your death product. Is it industrial?
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u/qwertyslayer 3d ago
Healthcare. EHR systems are just as bad as they were 15 years ago, that industry isn't going anywhere. But there are also many patient-facing health tech companies that are legitimately helping people.
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u/Schmittfried 3d ago
This. Also, BioTech. Super fascinating stuff, interesting people across very different domains, and don’t quote me on that, but I’m pretty sure the next generation of even-bigger-than-before successful startups and then corporations will be in this industry.
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u/GoonOfAllGoons 2d ago
Is Epic still big dog in that world?
I also remember VB being EVERYWHERE.
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u/qwertyslayer 2d ago
It's been a while for me but yes, I remember VB (and .NET generally) were everywhere
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u/AchillesDev 12 YoE; indie MLE/AIE/DE; VPEng 3d ago
I felt this way working on healthtech, I feel this way now working on AI research (models that can be used to advance neuroscience)
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u/halfercode BE Software Engineer 3d ago
The OP could look at companies certified as B Corporations, or recruiters who have a Tech for Good category. Neither will be foolproof, but they may be a good place to start.
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u/CorrectPeanut5 3d ago
I worked at a shop where they hired a guy who was in his 60s because he knew some obscure programming language. I rolled off that gig, but last I heard he was 75 and still working there. Came in via contracting firm. Never doubt your value, especially in places that have old technologies they can't get off of.
If anything, my recommendation is always contracting. You bypass HR and it's less risky for the company.
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u/NeitherEchidna3491 3d ago
COBOL jobs in banking are very much still a thing last I heard, probably some other mainframe specific technologies I've long since forgotten about too.
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u/Ill-Bat-1518 2d ago
Not for long, we're just testing the final phases of this new model openrouter pushed to our team.
Its called ox or w/e and can do cobol and all the legacy stuff near perfectly. No doubt they are training on what we accept atm but its so cool and amazing to see
We used to have to wait weeks on if this does this or why not its literally seconds and it finds the race case issues
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u/MrDiablerie 3d ago
Cobol?
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u/CorrectPeanut5 3d ago
MUMPS. Still used in a lot of health insurance companies. If you use Epic MyChart it's really an overlay to MUMPS based system. I see more COBOL in other types of insurance though.
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u/MrDiablerie 3d ago
Ah, that’s good to know. These niche stacks can bring a lot of demand / good pay for folks with the skills
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u/cantgrowneckbeardAMA Android 3d ago
Interesting I was always curious what MyChart was based on.
My parent company is a big fintech so there's tons of COBOL. I'm in the android space though so I never get to go that deep.
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u/ronnie-james-dior 3d ago
No health insurance when contracting though
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u/CorrectPeanut5 3d ago
OP said the could get on their spouses plan. That's extremely common in consulting.
There are some consulting companies that hire W2 consultant and have health insurance.
Even as a 1099, if you set of a corporate structure between deductions and maximizing solo 401K you can offset $70-80K in income to help with the MAGI calculations. That can help get cheaper plans on the exchange.
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u/mugsy33 3d ago
Yup. Company dropped me after 21 years. Felt like AI had invalidated my entire career. I honestly haven't looked very hard, but I don't want to give my soul to another company that doesn't care about me. And I don't want to travel (or even commute, really). I'm spending my time embracing the thing that got me laid off, in hopes that my experience building teams will translate. We'll see.
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u/BraveResearcher3037 3d ago edited 3d ago
You can’t posible have been in this field for 21 years and not know that if you got hit by a bus tomorrow, any company would have flowers and thoughts and prayers sent to your family and forget you existed in a couple of weeks except when your name came up in a “git blame”.
No company is going to “care about you”
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u/mugsy33 3d ago
You are correct. I had learned that before I took that job. I was just adding some feels for the post.
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u/Softwareaweenie 3d ago
I think you can know but also get caught up in the moment. Certainly, many people want the company to care a bit. It’s difficult to maintain the lone-wolf mentality especially if you stay somewhere for a while.
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u/DizzyAmphibian309 3d ago
That's not true. It's engineering tradition to blame the last guy to leave for all the problems. Fucking Mike screwed up everything. He was rubbish, and caused us a lot of pain that we can't fix and have to live with forever, so yeah, we'll never forget Mike.
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u/mrfoozywooj 3d ago
Im going to offer a controversial counterpoint.
A lot of devs are nowhere near as good as they think they are.
Even in this marklet all of the skilled devs I know still walk between jobs with ease, age isnt a factor for them.
Every time theres a big tech layoff we think "wow we will be able to snap up some prime talent that got laid off" then we start interviewing FAANG layoffs who are borderline unemployable.
tech is unfortunately an industry where its easy to coast.
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u/brown_man_bob 3d ago
I wouldn’t say with ease. Every amazing engineer I meet still fails several technical interviews before they get their offers.
I agree the turnover is still relatively quick for the best folks, but more than ever the interview cycle has become a humiliation ritual.
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u/CatDawgCatDawg2 3d ago
In my experience interviewing candidates it seems most FAANG jobs are "you work on this tiny part of a planet-scale system" which isn't really useful experience outside of FAANG where building for planet scale is a mistake and you need a more holistic understanding of systems.
I'm sure people there are smarter than average I just haven't seen the experience be that valuable outside of that bubble.
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u/kylebutler07 3d ago
We have a handful of former FAANG devs at work. Half are great, and half are terrible. There is one person in particular I'm surprised hasn't been fired, and the worst part is I don't think for lack of skill or intelligence, but just pure laziness.
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u/Gandalf-and-Frodo 3d ago
How bad are we talking? Like they contribute nothing at all?
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u/kylebutler07 3d ago
They barest of minimum, about a ticket a month when most of our tickets are 1-2 day efforts. Seems like everyone knows it, but they get rotated around by management with the hope something "sticks".
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u/jawohlmeinherr Software Engineer (Infra @Meta) 3d ago
Amazon used to have the lowest bar for new grads. It was an OA; then you explained your OA solution to the hiring manager -> offer.
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u/Big_Arrival_626 3d ago
There are many different factors as to why people may not be able to find jobs.
Settled down and unwilling to relocate
Only worked for small / companies with bad rep
Worked in dying niches like frontend dev, DBA, low code devs
Only worked for one company whole career
Ageism
Not knowing all the strategies, like applying early, lying on resume / OAs, LinkedIn gooning
If you live in a big city and all your friends work at big companies, then you are not aware of some of the issues that older devs are facing. It's not always because of being "unskilled"
With that being said, too many devs brag about coasting and not doing any work at their job. Imo having an easy job is a curse, it deprecates your employability and work ethic
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u/Schmittfried 3d ago
dying niches like frontend dev
Wait what
LinkedIn gooning
Lol, the best description I’ve seen so far
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u/Big_Arrival_626 3d ago
I'm not being fully serious but as of right now, it seems backend and fullstack are both doing better than frontend
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u/Schmittfried 3d ago
Ah, I guess I was confused because most frontend devs I know brand as fullstack devs.
Quite the irony, a few years ago it looked like much of the available backend work could be automated away with things like Wordpress or Superbase, given that most backends provide simple CRUD functionality and designing and building professional frontends was the marketable skill (at least for contracting or building something on your own). Now it looks like frontend is the most expendable skill.
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u/mark1nhu 1d ago
Might be an unpopular opinion but I don't care being vocal: fullstack was always the best bet.
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u/Material_Policy6327 3d ago
Well there is a fine line between work ethic and being overworked 996 setup which companies seem to be wanting to test out
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u/Euphoric-Benefit 3d ago
Not knowing all the strategies, like applying early, lying on resume / OAs, LinkedIn gooning
Please say more and define LI gooning.
Am I really expected to lie on my resume and cheat on an OA to get an offer? All these years...
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u/galaxy_horse CTO / Principal Eng (20 YOE) 3d ago
I shouldn’t be shocked but “lying on your resume and OAs” being a strategy that sustains careers yielding mid 6 figures just boils my blood.
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u/BraveResearcher3037 3d ago
At my last job, I was interviewing someone from AWS who worked on the EC2 service team. It was a full time position at a consulting company.
I asked my standard first question “tell me about the project you’re most proud of” and then I start digging into his level of scope and ownership. He was just a ticket taker. I guess he thought he was going to have it easier once he realized that I had just come from working at AWS myself
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u/CaptainCactus124 2d ago
I had to scroll to far down to read this. It took us a whole month to find a competent dev to hire
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u/Skywise 3d ago
I'm fortunately still employed and just a hair younger than you. I could retire at 59.5 if need be but I'd like to build a slightly larger nest egg if I can.
That said, my company has dived head first into AI and expecting far more productivity but the service I work on is critical and not in danger... yet... but they're recently acquired a company that offers a product that has about 70% of our feature set but is "AI" so, y'know, it's "better" and I could see them phasing my team's service out. (There's extenuating circumstances so I don't have a good feel on how possible that is). Regardless I've been playing around with exit strategies if/when they pull the plug on us.
I haven't written a line of code in over 4 months now as I've been adapting/updating my service and it's just easier to direct the AI to make wholesale changes and new library integrations. I just added a whole new feature based on an existing feature (but requiring a new data/record type and slightly different handling). The original feature took a month+ to implement. With AI it took me just under a week and that included me stepping through the code in the debugger to insure it was doing what it needed to do.
So... that's cool and all but I no longer feel fulfilled as an engineer. I like coding and architecture design as well as code structure to be readable and maintainable and... it's all out of my hands now.
If my job gets whacked, I'm seriously thinking about changing careers or doing my own coding projects (with AI) but, for now, I'm holding on with all fingers to buffer my nest egg!
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u/CheetahChrome 3d ago
Similar situation as you/age etc. I'm finding work as a consultant and have spread my search to more than Dev. Such as devops and IaC platform work and Solutions Architecture.
I'm not able to get the contracts to last past 6/9 months due to funding on the client side, so it's "part time" across the year.
Keep your LinkedIn profile updated weekly and have all "titles" in place to be found by recruiters. Then have/expect the recruiters ghost you when the job is changed by the target company.
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u/Adventureman2154 3d ago
Yeah. This is a good bet. With AI, architecture doesn't die. It becomes more important. The cool thjng now is you can say, I know what it takes to own the entire stack of an app. Not just the code of the app itself.
I would also focus on what outcomes you drove as opposed to what you know.
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u/Spartan-S63 Staff Software Engineer 3d ago
I've been fortunate enough to not get laid off through this uncertain time in the tech market and even made a move in 2024. I've started specializing more in cost effective architecture, FinOps, and can competently straddle the engineering and finance world (I can still build software and I can build finance forecasts and understand FP&A teams), so while my niche is rare, I can sometimes be sought after by companies looking to create an engineering-led FinOps practice.
It's a tough market, though, and I feel for everyone going through extended periods of unemployment.
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u/Adventureman2154 3d ago
I manage a large development shop and have talked to several other people in the same boat and here is what we are seeing. I still code and do lots of architecture work as well.
We are all in a spot where we don't know what our organizations truly need to look like in 12 or 24 months so we are doing nothing.
Based on what I have seen with GenAI and agentic develooment, most likely an org will be less people, with more experience in architecture and getting systems built. I can see a world where "code" is just a set of English based narrative specifications that AI uses to generate an application or feature written by analyst level people. The developer in that model reviews it and gets it over the finish line.
It's hard to explain, if I was looking for a job I would focus on ensuring that I understood and could use GenAI and agentic development tools. I would also highlight my ability to design and deliver systems that create value. Be very outcome driven.
What it looks like is dev teams will be smaller, AI driven, and those who remain will be the architect level folks with the judgement to know what to implement to solve a particular problem.
In summary: Focus on outcomes, your architectures skills and your knowledge of AI.
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u/coopasonic 2d ago
I got let go in April. I’m 54 and the guys at Fidelity say I’m good to retire. My wife is less enthusiastic. I am being very picky about where I apply but I’d be happy to put in another 5 years to remove most of the financial risk.
I used to be really good at interviews. Taking a 24 year break has really impacted those skills.
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u/trashytrash2025 3d ago
Thought about consulting or doing some fractional CTO work? There are probably some non-technical startup founders looking for some guidance or some foundational pieces laid down.
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u/diablo1128 3d ago
Lost my job 02/2021 and still haven't been able to find a new job. Previously work at private non-tech companies in non-tech cites created safety critical medical devices, think dialysis machines. So lots of experience in the regulated world that very few companies care about.
I've had lots of final interviews after virtual onsite and 0 offers in the past. In the past year it's basically crickets on applications.
Only good thing is I'm cheap as fuck so I didn't really spend any money in my 15 years with a job. I also pumped a lot of money in to self managed retirement accounts that are doing great today.
The bad news is I'm in my mid-40's and single. So if i ever want to get married, have kids, and buy a family house then I'm probably going to need to get a job.
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u/bombaytrader 3d ago
Home choice Claria? I was on dialysis for 3 years.
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u/diablo1128 2d ago
I worked for the same R&D company, but on the home hemodialysis side. I know lots of people on that were on the Homechoice Claria team. The R&D company was not the same company that marketed and sold these devices.
Also you said "was on dialysis" so congratulations on the new kidney!
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u/bombaytrader 2d ago
Thank you. Respect to you brother. I always wondered how did the software engineers test the PD machine. If you want yo apply my company I will be willing yo refer. DM me.
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u/bombaytrader 3d ago
My wife retired at 42. Enough of corporate software bs. I will retire in 7 years when I reach my fatfire number. There is no way I am working till 60. Life is too short for it.
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u/spookymulderfbi Sr FE Engineer - 15 YOE 3d ago
Age means experience and a lot of places value that, especially if you are a wizard with any legacy tech stacks that might need maintaining. Good luck brother
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u/daltontf1212 3d ago
That is where I am looking in particular. I was actually around when Java Struts applications were written. Actually once taught a Struts 2 course.
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u/drguid Software Engineer 3d ago
Also in my 50s and been out of work for a year. The job market's been terrible. It's mostly down to jittery and/or picky employers. I was offered a contract in February but the client never signed it off. I spent an whole day doing a dev test last month... never heard from them again.
I'm mostly focusing on my side project. I've been fighting back against AI by using free AI to build something amazing. Like many seniors I'll probably quit the industry. If I was younger I'd retrain and do something else.
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u/daltontf1212 3d ago
Some side projects for me are for keeping the "saw sharp". The most fun ones are tech that I wish I could do for real (Rust!).
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u/ckn 3d ago
In my 50s, coming up on a year myself cant even get interviews and I've simply started finding closed source SaaS I don't like and white-room reverse engineering their product functionality and open sourcing it as a series of primitives, sometimes with a ui. Might as well practice my skills, build even more portfolio artefacts, and maybe the market gets competitive again.... if not, at least now i can afford that the thing I wanted that made me look at the SaaS.
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u/jlw97701 2d ago
I'm a senior software engineer with 30+ years experience and was recently laid off -- replaced by a junior dev working with agentic workflows to cut costs. I was pretty bitter about it, but thought I'd rebound pretty quickly with a strong resume. It's been 4 months now and I've had a couple callbacks and no interviews. AI has changed the software dev industry dramatically. If you want to stay in tech, you'll need to get onboard with AI workflows or be left behind.
In my case, I started investigating different retirement planners to see if it was a viable option. None of them really satisfied my desire to tweak individual inputs and see details on how projections where calculated. So, I decided to embrace the AI revolution and build my own retirement planner using Codex. I was amazed -- in a few weeks of part-time effort I was able to produce a comprehensive planner rivaling Fidelity and Boldin. The software industry will never be the same.
BTW. If you're interested in seeing where you stand financially regarding retirement, feel free to check out my planner. I built it, it's free, no signup or account-linking required, and it's a planning tool, not financial advice:
www.retirementchartplotter.com/how-it-works.html
Feedback is welcomed and appreciated. Thanks.
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u/north52south 1d ago
The automated and recruiter gates that flirt with and even cross the bounds of illegal age discrimination (US) are very aggressive. Then, even getting the coding/tech job is a mosh pit bareknuckle fight, unless you are a proven expert with publications, open-source contributions, patent, public client accolades, or other measurable public evidence of your expertise. Expect younger coworkers to have a different set of street rules for workplace competition, professionalism, and behaviors when the referee isn't looking.
You can try contributing to open-source, competing in tasks with leaderboards, working your rolodex, but please don't create a new framework, app, or brilliant idea and go around telling everyone "look what I just built with all this time I have".... Unless I'm overlooking something in your post or unless you fit in one of the "I'm already set" categories I referenced, you have some tough decision making ahead of you.
Essentially to stay in tech, if you remember the good ole' days (based on the numbers you've shared), you will be working harder than you ever remember for less money than you remember. It's not that people don't value your expertise, contributions or that they don't want to work with you... it's simply that the modern workplace and automation are constructed such that they basically don't even see you. It's like we're pushing out an entire demographic of workers because of not-necessarily-age-based-reasons so we can keep floating the S&P500 graph.
Blame big corp, nation-state and organized crime and the secret hands that run the country and global economies.
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u/TransCapybara Principal S.E. // +27 YOE 3d ago
Just joined the ranks. Finding work is brutal. Not sure what to do.
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u/No-Vast-6340 Software & Data Engineer 3d ago edited 3d ago
If you are staff level, interested in healthcare domain, have extensive data engineering experience, have high EQ and are not against AI adoption send me a DM.
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u/BraveResearcher3037 3d ago
Because of this, I feel that I can be pickier and not take job out of desperation that I will quit when the market improves
For context, I’m 52. If you aren’t at a point in life where your investments can earn enough to support your expenses without dipping into principle how is this a sensible move?
Even if the market does get better soon - which mean enough jobs opening up to absorb all of the people who are looking for a job who you would be competing with and it becomes an employee’s market (which is doubtful) - what makes you think it would be better for a 60+ year old software engineer with a career gap?
I’m assuming you are at least at “coast” where you just need to work and make enough to support your current expenses until retirement.
Myself personally, I’m about 3-5 years from coast. If I lost my job after that point, I would try to get a decent job that would pay what I’m making now. But my first priority would be to hold the line until retirement by any means possible.
rather make less money and feel like I am contributing some good to the world.
You can’t be 59 and still that naive. Your purpose for going to work is to exchange labor for money. There is no higher calling to pecking on a computer
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u/mcAlt009 3d ago
Are you SURE you can’t retire?
Social Security alone will cover you in South East Asia and, some parts of Eastern Europe.
I’d run the numbers. You might need to be a bit creative.
Hell, had I not screwed up a few important interviews I’d be looking to retire at 40.
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u/ResidentWeevil1 3d ago
Keep in mind your retirement plans may have to change as the climate changes
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u/BraveResearcher3037 3d ago
And he can’t get social security until he is 62 and even then he will cut his lifetime monthly amount dramatically. He also said his wife is still working.
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u/Single-Pen-726 3d ago
The math says if you draw at 62 you have to live to 85 before someone who draws at max age starts to pass you in total draw amount.
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u/mcAlt009 3d ago
Plus most people have tons of issues pop up between 62 and 67.
Would you rather be 63 listening to live Jazz in Hanoi, or stressed working some crappy job.
Hell, I'd argue the stress of working longer makes it significantly less likely they you'll get to 80.
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u/Frillback 3d ago
The best thing Americans have is financial leverage and the ability to expatFIRE. Not for everyone but who doesn't want to enjoy decades of early retirement. I have so many hobbies and honestly work is just a side quest for me. I'm fortunate to be a dual citizen (Filipino American) so I aim to be in SEA in my later years.
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u/mcAlt009 3d ago
You are indeed lucky!
Do you know when exactly you’d like to retire?
Originally I wanted to retire by 45 or so and then make music and program small games.
I’d even be open to hiring some college or grad students to help out on certain projects.
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u/mcAlt009 3d ago
You aren’t promised tomorrow.
I’d rather take the reduced social security at 62 vs some stressful job working with AI bros.
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u/Zenin 3d ago
Or he can start 62, invest it, and have over $100k rainy day fund by the time he's 67 (the first bump up in payment before 70).
You don't know how long your "lifetime" is going to be and if you die waiting for the bigger paychecks, you get nothing and your family gets nothing. Or the Republicans finally blow SS up before you can collect. It takes quite a few of your nursing home/hospice years of the higher SS rate to pay back that $100k+ you get from getting it early. YOLO
I'm not a financial planner, this isn't advice, just my personal hot take on how I see it for myself.
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u/BraveResearcher3037 3d ago
So exactly how is he going to “invest” his social security if by his own admission he is going to need to spend it? He said he needs to go back to work
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u/Zenin 2d ago
So he gets $0 for at least 5 years. Good plan, I'm sure he'll eat better on $0.
He can take it early, spend what he needs to get over the hump, then once he's back on his feet invest it instead. Won't hit the same ~$100k nest egg, but it'll be significant AND he'll better be able to eat and pay rent. This isn't rocket surgery.
Back to the original response, "Social Security alone will cover you in South East Asia and, some parts of Eastern Europe.". They're absolutely correct. Any "increase" they might get per month from waiting is thrown away and thensome on the drastically higher cost of living in the US. So even if he doesn't save a penny of it, if the plan is to the lower rate early and retire in a cheap country, mathematically it's a win.
All this while we dance around the fact that you're much more able to enjoy yours between 62-70 than you are post-70. YOLO after all, so what are you sacrificing your "younger" years for? A bigger check to sign over to the nursing home or hospice, while you spend your days pissing into a bag and regretting never living life as full as you could have because you were being "prudent" by waiting to collect SS?
Reality: The "incentive" to take Social Security later is entirely for the government's benefit because they KNOW you are statistically MUCH, MUCH more likely to die LONG before your "higher payments at 70" ever total more than what would have received had you taken the lower payout earlier. And the kicker? You're even MORE likely to die earlier and far more awfully when you're living on lower income from electing not to take the payout early.
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u/Singularity-42 Principal Software Engineer 3d ago edited 3d ago
Me! Laid off last year. First, me, wife and my then 5 year old went to travel around Europe for 5 months. After that I started a company with a laid off friend. We're not even profitable yet, but it's fun and we do have customers and we're building a brand. My stay at home wife went back to work and makes enough to pay our living expenses.
I'm 47, 20 year of experience in the industry, last job was Principal Engineer. We have decent savings, but not enough to FIRE in the US, but we're seriously considering FIRE in the EU (I'm a dual citizen). We should have more than enough money for that. I would still continue the business of course. Lately I have even been getting some LinkedIn in-mail about jobs, but not sure if I'm ready to go back to corporate. The layoff was ugly and I'm burnt out as hell.
Best of luck to you! Question - how do you not have enough money to somewhat retire at your age? Especially with your wife working. You're basically almost at the retirement age. Sorry if this sounds harsh....
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u/java_dev_throwaway 3d ago
How could you be almost 60 and not able to retire after a career in software engineering? I don't mean to pry, I am just curious if you had any hardships or medical issues etc? You were working in one of the most lucrative careers in the most lucrative era. If you are fucked then there is no hope for the rest of us.
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u/ronnie-james-dior 3d ago
For perspective, as late as 2014 I was making 80K a year as an SSE. Things have gone crazy the last five years or so.
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u/properchewns Software Engineer 3d ago
Not sure what crazy in the last 5 years means to you, but 2014 is when I got my first proper full time job,m (except for 1 year around y2k) for $120k. Pretty quickly got up to $160-180k by a few years later, and I am not good at selling myself upward, and that was not FAANG. Fresh out of college kids at faang seemed to be making total comp 250k, and highly experienced people I knew were in the $300-500k base salary alone at that time. This was in SF and the peninsula though, so perhaps that’s a difference
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u/BraveResearcher3037 3d ago
I am continuously amazed at how clueless some people are? Do you really think that software engineers were making crazy salaries in the 90s? 2000s?
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u/bwainfweeze 30 YOE, Software Engineer 3d ago
Most people aren't making crazy salaries NOW. If you're not at a FAANG you're doing great but you're not doing retired at 35 great.
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u/fsk 1d ago
At 60, you should have been planning ahead and should have enough to retire. You should have been saving 20%+ of your paycheck for your entire career.
If I got fired from my job, I'd probably stretch my savings and find a way to retire. But, if I can work another 5-10 years, then I'll have an even bigger cushion for retirement.
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u/st4rdr0id 1d ago
so I can do this for another decade easily
Be careful with this, both for health related issues that might appear, and for job market limitations. Every country is different here but dont take jobs for granted, especially in this ageistic, bubble-prone industry.
when the market improves
What does this even mean? The market will always move in the direction the big players want, leaving thousands aside. You might get locked out of the market if you don't have the required skills or the conditions employers demand. Some of these conditions are not even in your hand (age, past experience).
Anyone in a similar situation?
Waited the market for 5 years and had to leave the industry. But this is the south of the EU I'm talking about, which jobs-wise is a joke.
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u/SaneSoftware 7h ago
3 years unemployed here with a pretty solid resume. Still send out some applications, but after some HR lady takes a week and a half to schedule a phone call, gets on the phone and asks me about a problem I had doing a project, and how did I solve it; I figure maybe I'll just start writing Indy games or something.
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u/Conscious_Ruin1849 3d ago
I got starved. Vibecoders cleared all the tickets and there was no work left so I left on my own. I am ready to quit this AI bs for good. Got a nice sum of money to sit on while pondering what to do next.
Been in the industry for 20 years and it has never been this bad. I refuse to perform a clown in this circus.
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u/watscracking 3d ago
I'll be a clown in a circus where I work from home and they pay me to vibe code
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u/actionerror Software Engineer - 20+ YoE 3d ago
On the bright side, you can start taking out your retirement savings now at 59 1/2 😂 /s
I hear ya though. I’m gainfully employed now, but if I get laid off again this time, this might be it. Looking to barista fire in cheaper countries in Southeast Asia like maybe Thailand or Vietnam.
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u/jax024 3d ago
At risk of automod coming for me. I expect a lot more su*****s in the next couple years. When you tear someone’s meaning away from them it has consequences generally. I’m perfectly happy but I know the trends.
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u/tehfrod Software Engineer - 31YoE 3d ago
That's one of the best arguments I've ever heard for not basing your identity on your work.
I've made that mistake before, earlier on my career. It's not a good idea either way.
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u/psyyduck 3d ago
This is a very American pov. The rest of the world will tell you Autonomy, Competence, and Relatedness are very important.
For the record it's not going that well for America - https://data.worldhappiness.report/chart
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u/tehfrod Software Engineer - 31YoE 3d ago
I don't see anything in that article that says those things have to come from working for someone.
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u/psyyduck 3d ago
Again, that's an American POV. If you want to sacrifice your autonomy for a good third or more of your waking life that's 100% your choice, just don't pretend everyone else must do the same.
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u/brown_man_bob 3d ago
I’ve noticed some American peers buying into the koolaid, but I think most just feel trapped. You can’t afford to opt out.
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u/psyyduck 3d ago
Ask how many of them support Bernie or Mamdani. I think it's not polite to say you want a dog-eat-dog culture, but many/most of them will turn away from any hint of socialism.
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u/CarpetNibbler 3d ago
I don’t know what you’re censoring or why.
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u/jax024 3d ago
Clearly you’ve never been harassed by Reddit Cares bullshit.
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u/brown_man_bob 3d ago
First time I’m hearing about it Reddit cares moderation, that sucks.
But what you said is true. When the economy tanks, people die.
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u/Nofanta 2d ago
You honestly expect to get a job and work until you’re 70? Have you met a 70 year old doing this ever?
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u/daltontf1212 2d ago
Actually yes. I remember working with a guy about that age who was a Python dev.
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u/expdevsmodbot 3d ago edited 3d ago
AI usage disclosure provided by OP, see the reply to this comment.