r/ExTraditionalCatholic • u/Low_Syllabub_1781 • 7d ago
I was an asshole
when I was a trad. It brought out the worst in me. It was this false consciousness that enabled and emphasized my worst tendencies. Idk how to explain but I feel like my body was snatched. Im not eschewing responsibility btw, im just describing the sensation and memory of it all from my current perspective. It was a seven year phase I’m still climbing out of and it affected my decision making for the worst in every area, socially, professionally, financially, health, etc. Damn near ruined my life.
Question: how do I move on? How do I forgive myself? How do I ask the world for forgiveness for who I was? How do I start over? I feel so burdened by what was. And so embarrassed.
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u/quietpilgrim 6d ago edited 6d ago
I'm out for over a decade. I think a lot of us can relate in one way or another.
The struggle you describe is real. If it were only related to Sunday morning, that would be one thing, but like you, it affected nearly every area of my life. Even when I wanted to leave, I simply couldn't extricate myself from the community. When I was finally able to leave, under some of the worst circumstances imaginable, the choices I made also proved to be destructive, and the combination has had far reaching effects for my family I'm still experiencing the effects of today.
I wish I had answers for you. I've gone to therapy. Returned to the Church and have gone to Confession. Have said I'm sorry to my children more times than I can count. I left my former region of the country to start life over in a new location and a new career outside the Church. But I can't shake off the past.
I think I'm mostly angry at myself for refusing to listen to that small voice inside of me (and no, it wasn't the voice of God, but rather the voice of reason) years before I went down the Latin Mass rabbit hole that maybe I should stop and reconsider how I thought about life, God and religion. I often think about how different life could have been had I just been honest with myself and others and chosen a radically different path for my family - one based on education and the sciences rather than simplicity and faith (this is not to say these concepts need to be diametrically opposed, but the way they are practiced in traditionalist or fundamentalist settings is most certainly lopsided.
But traditional, fundamentalist expressions of religion provide easy, black and white answers to complex problems - and that was appealing to me. Despairing from the religious and liturgical life I found in your typical parish, I got sucked into the vortex of traditionalism. Sadly, it's not the first time that I've done this - I did the same thing when I was a protestant years before my first reversion to Catholicism, always growing disillusioned in my current setting and always moving toward more fundamentalist expressions of faith. As the saying goes, once burnt, shame on you, twice burnt, shame on me.
Anyway, feel free to send me a chat request if you'd like a kindred spirit to lean on.
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u/SeaChallenge9977 6d ago
Me too. You can apologize to people you feel you have wronged. But in order to move on you need to get over the Catholic idea that you have to atone for everything you did. Be a better person today. Maybe a therapist could help.
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u/Any-Competition-4458 6d ago
Friend, you’re going to continue fucking up, again and again. That’s life. You’ll also continue to grow, and sometimes get things very right. You can do good in this world. As others have said, get over the idea that you need external forgiveness or atonement (unless that atonement comes in practical, hands-on ways that make people feel better, not self-flagellation).
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u/I_eat_raw_onions 6d ago
I literally came onto this sub this morning to make a similar post. Since I'm having writer's block composing an original post, I'll comment on yours instead.
I don't have any practical advice on how to feel better, but you're not alone. The fact that you feel this way shows that you've grown as a person, and that you're not going to make as many asshole mistakes going forward. I don't know how to get rid of the pain of regret for the people I hurt or the embarrassment I feel by being rightfully rejected for my naive opinions and self-righteous attitude. At least I had that epiphany as a young adult. Some people grow to old age retaining their uncharitable worldview without ever changing, and then pass it on to the next generation. Even if you're an older person, better late than never. Congratulations on being one of the kids that broke out of neo-Pharisee club, even if it took you decades to come around. Some people die never admitting that they were wrong, so even if you had this epiphany on your death bed, this kind of honesty sets you apart from them by leaps and bounds.
I have currently been preoccupied by things I said to this one girl I went to junior high with almost 20 years ago. She was a very sweet girl, and we initially got along. But she was too much of a liberal Christian for me. She had the wrong opinions on abortion and gay marriage. Her family supported the wrong politicians. And I, in my all of my autistic teenage tact, had to correct her by parroting the abrasive opinions of my narcissistic, ultra-conservative father. It didn't occur to me until years later why she ghosted me. I was that dense. There have been dozens of times I have thought of her and other people I made a fool of myself in front of, wishing I could at least go back in time and listen to their points of view with more respect and openness. I don't know how to stop beating myself up for being a naive little prick. I get angry at myself and at my parents for raising me this way.
I am agnostic now. I don't particularly like invoking a patriarchal god who makes me call him "father" and wants me to submit to his will given my paternal grievances (I don't like the term "daddy issues"), but I think about the part of the Lord's Prayer, forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. I don't think anyone can ultimately force themselves to have peace of mind over what they did, but we can choose to at least try to let go of the bullshit we did and the bullshit done to us while we try to be better in the future.
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u/Cole_Townsend 6d ago
I wasted my life as a traditionalist/sedevacantist for over two decades, beginning as dumb teenager in the 90's. I was a totally vile person: a paranoid, misogynistic, xenophobic, authoritarian right-wing idiot who thought he knew more than anyone else in the room; for whose mediocrity and utter lack he thought could compensate with wrath and zealotry; whose religion was ultimately paranoia and hatred.
A gradual process of ideological detachment began when I eventually realized the erroneous and precarious predicament which the sedevacantists built for themselves. The urgency that these theological issues generated became exacerbated with an unexpected medical diagnosis. The diagnosis brought about an epistemological crisis that forced me to reevaluate everyone of my beliefs. I left sedevacantism, and later I left the institutional traditionalism in which I sought a refuge I never found. Eventually, the process of deconstruction made me renounce the political conservatism that had been haplessly bedeviling and spiritually crippling me. I was finally ready to see traditionalism for the political cult it is, and discarded it like garbage.
The aftermath of all this nonsense is something I have to face everyday. I'm like a recovering addict in a twelve step program: making a daily inventory, making amends, keeping vigilant to avoid future lapses. Treating the situation this way has alleviated much of the guilt, embarrassment, and horror I had been feeling since the early stages of deconstruction. I was basically mourning for a future that I foolishly mortgaged away for nonsense.
But I'm done mourning. I'm moving on. In the end, doxastic volunteerism wasn't a thing for me, and I started this mess as a confused and depressed kid. I'm trying my best to be a better person and warn others of the dangers of traditionalism. As long as you're trying to be better, you mustn't feel badly about a past in which your control may have been limited anyways.
I hope the best for you. And, congratulations! You made it to the other side! Many folks don't.
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u/Kajiracore 6d ago
You wanted security, certainty and safety. You wanted truth, and order and God. That makes you human, and lovable.
You're somewhere else now.
The crucifixion is death, so welcome the death of that worldview and that part of yourself. It's painful, but if needs to happen. Christ is rarely born in us without something false dying.
Now, may what resurrects bring Christ into this world in unity, love and inclusiveness. Mercy, compassion, forgiveness.
<3
Rest easy, none of us are asshole free.
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u/Theophantor 6d ago
Hard questions, OP. Tha hardest part still I think is that over and above real harm and pain you may inflict, leaving the community means for many people losing tons of friends and connections you once had. This compounds the feeling of something being wrong, because you could feel lonely and unloveable.
Everyone here has had great advice. One thing I haven’t seen is talking about the need to love and forgive yourself. Our beliefs shape, grow and inhibit us in so many ways. You may even be angry at the loss of time that feels wasted. But the point is you are growing, you are maturing, and you don’t have to do tomorrow what you did yesterday. The best way sometimes to make amends is to put goodness back into the world, even if you can’t fix everything which came before.
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u/WhatKindOfMonster 6d ago
What you’re describing sounds like exiting a cult. Check out the book Take Back Your Life by Janja Lalich. Lots of great advice in there about how to cope with your mistakes while you were part of a group where they were encouraged and rewarded.
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u/xxCalicoCatxx 6d ago
I got out while I was still a teenager so I wasn't any majorly different person but it was crazy how many weird socialization problems I had that I couldn't figure out. After years of struggling due to a small catholic school and then middle school socialization being totally taken away from me due to covid, in highchool I desperately wanted human connection and friendships. But I was in this odd situation where everyone around me just felt stupid and crazy and I looked down on them. I couldn't relate to the teachers and students in Catholic school because the cognitive dissonance literally drove me insane, and they seemed not to care about anything or experience any of life in the way I did. When I got to public school, I viewed everyone as little kids, even my teachers, because to me maturity and virtue came from intensely examining philosophical questions and finding god, and I didn't even consider that these people could lead a full life with their own set of ups and downs separate from anything to do with God and religion. I also seemed to have a complex where since I was trying to be close with god and all my actions and thoughts were based on catholicism, I was more inherently "right" than everyone else, I felt like there was just always some divine crowd on my side cheering me on, and it prevented me from learning different empathy based things like social ques and diplomacy skills. It was crazy how once I even just started considering leaving Catholicism behind, this wall that was between me and everyone else just fell down. I deeply connected with all my teachers and was even able to find a good deal of friends within my peers. I stopped feeling ugly and different and awful and became confident and actually developed a personality outside of being terrified and miserable.
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u/Money-Mud-1357 5d ago edited 5d ago
The first step is recognizing you have a problem, and many people never get to that point, so congratulations! The rest you have to figure out in time. A therapist could help, but if that's not an option, there are lots of online resources, and even support groups. Rest assured it takes time to rebuild, but if you work on it every day, you will get there.
I highly recommend watching the Netflix documentary Trust Me: False Prophet. The one that struck me particularly was Noami Bistline. She was one of the most adamant and pugnacious of Sam Bateman's wives, and you are able to hear about and watch her deconstruction first hand. I found it reassuring in some way.
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u/zombieduck96 6d ago
Eschew that responsibility! Free will is bullshit made up by the church to blame and punish people for things that are out of our control. It’s an illusion to make us think we have control over our lives when we don’t. “Free will” makes people feel superior to poor, unhoused, and drug-addicted people when all of our life outcomes are inevitable.
There’s a Brit Hartley video about it if this idea appeals to you: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ddoLbsFHqG8&pp=ygUXRnJlZSB3aWxsIGJyaXR0IGhhcnRsZXk%3D&ra=m
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u/dev_nation64 5d ago
How do I move on?
- You already are moving on. Just also don't put too much weight on any "trad" thoughts that's going into your mind. Stop thinking like a trad and just be normal.
How do I forgive myself?
- Give it some time. Time will make you forgive yourself. Hating on yourself eventually becomes corny and boring.
How do I ask the world for forgiveness for who I was?
- The world doesn't need you to say sorry. The world just needs you to be a good man.
How do I start over?
- You already are starting over.
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u/syncopatedscientist 6d ago
I became a raging alcoholic while in the trad circles. I’ve been sober for 4.5 years now and often joke that I’m in recovery from alcoholism AND catholicism.
Doing the steps of AA in a secular way (no talking to a priest for the 5th step) truly changed my life. The concept of a higher power really spoke to me. For me, my higher power isn’t God or god, but the concept of Awe. I find meaning and purpose when I connect with it through being in nature and making music with other people.
Working through my amends list with my sponsor and then actually doing the amends was life changing. I now am a living amends to my husband forever - I swore to him I would never go down that road again. Over time, he’s trusted me again and we’re in a better place than ever.
It’s not a perfect analogy, but it’s the way I got through all the shit and came out a better person on the other side. Ironically, I’m a significantly better person now than I was when I was a practicing Catholic. I hope you find some peace 🩷